Board 8 > A warrior takes a sword in hand, clasping a gem to his heart. [FFT] [LFT]

(+) Yeah! (+)

are there any other abilities besides the squire attacks that have auto-knockback in LFT?

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Hey all this is Bartz btw.

From: metroid composite | #046
The correct answer is almost certainly "I will not learn any movement abilities".

Eh I'm not so sure about this. What are the "great" support abilities... Two Swords, Attack UP, Magic Attack UP, Short Charge, Concentrate, Equip Armor? Reaction abilities would be Auto Potion, Counter, Blade Grasp, Abandon...? Am I missing anything there? I see Teleport or Move+3 or Fly being a lot more useful in a lot of battles than all of these for many builds. I'd probably prefer the movement to one of the two on... Knight, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Samurai, Oracle, and Swordskill users at minimum. Which is roughly 1/3 of the classes, and a few of those classes are really useful.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

*looks at LFT data* Wow, you guys certainly managed to tighten stuff up. Wish I still hang around the DL...

*looks at Metroid* How's life?

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Lopen posted...
Eh I'm not so sure about this. What are the "great" support abilities... Two Swords, Attack UP, Magic Attack UP, Short Charge, Concentrate, Equip Armor? Reaction abilities would be Auto Potion, Counter, Blade Grasp, Abandon...? Am I missing anything there? I see Teleport or Move+3 or Fly being a lot more useful in a lot of battles than all of these for many builds. I'd probably prefer the movement to one of the two on... Knight, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Samurai, Oracle, and Swordskill users at minimum. Which is roughly 1/3 of the classes, and a few of those classes are really useful.

Bearing in mind that I was making a statement with respect to unmodified FFT...

Support: Gained JP Up. And then the three most powerful skillsets are Math Skill, Summon Magic, and Time Magic, all of which care more about Magic Attack Up/Short Charge than they do about reaction or movement abilities.

Reaction: Auto Potion basically makes you invincible for the regular story battles (there's something like 10-20 enemies in the normal story that deal more than 150 damage). Critical Quick can give you infinite turns. Sunken State brings Sunken Stated Dance. MP Switch does terrible things to the AI when combined with any kind of MP healing (Angel Song, etc) because the AI doesn't track who has MP left.

I'll grant you that yeah, maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of classes have different priorities. The classic Ninja setup picks up Concentrate and Move+2 while unlocking Ninja, and doesn't have an obvious go-to reaction, and doesn't lean too heavily on Gained JP Up, and might even be willing to skip learning "skillset abilities". But...these are exceptions.

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

metroid composite posted...
Lopen posted...
Eh I'm not so sure about this. What are the "great" support abilities... Two Swords, Attack UP, Magic Attack UP, Short Charge, Concentrate, Equip Armor? Reaction abilities would be Auto Potion, Counter, Blade Grasp, Abandon...? Am I missing anything there? I see Teleport or Move+3 or Fly being a lot more useful in a lot of battles than all of these for many builds. I'd probably prefer the movement to one of the two on... Knight, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Samurai, Oracle, and Swordskill users at minimum. Which is roughly 1/3 of the classes, and a few of those classes are really useful.

Bearing in mind that I was making a statement with respect to unmodified FFT...

Support: Gained JP Up. And then the three most powerful skillsets are Math Skill, Summon Magic, and Time Magic, all of which care more about Magic Attack Up/Short Charge than they do about reaction or movement abilities.

Reaction: Auto Potion basically makes you invincible for the regular story battles (there's something like 10-20 enemies in the normal story that deal more than 150 damage). Critical Quick can give you infinite turns. Sunken State brings Sunken Stated Dance. MP Switch does terrible things to the AI when combined with any kind of MP healing (Angel Song, etc) because the AI doesn't track who has MP left.

I'll grant you that yeah, maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of classes have different priorities. The classic Ninja setup picks up Concentrate and Move+2 while unlocking Ninja, and doesn't have an obvious go-to reaction, and doesn't lean too heavily on Gained JP Up, and might even be willing to skip learning "skillset abilities". But...these are exceptions.

But doesn't it also nerf some of them like Calculator? That's what I got from it.

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RPG's beaten in 2011: 13/15. Currenly Playing: Act Raiser
Would you like to see my bikini? Its tiny. -Dekar (Lufia DS)

I'll keep closer tabs on Ignore Height this time around, but the main thing I think of is Zeakden. Archers get free reign to break a map that, under normal (vanilla) conditions, you wouldn't be able to do. Normally you have to walk all the way around but archers can just get up there and snipe guys all day. It completely breaks that climactic end to chapter 1.



Jump +3's never going to make this kind of impact on a singular map. Well, I guess maybe on those annoying as hell swamp levels, but that's just to get near the enemy. Here, the enemy cannot get near you at all.

(I should mention that I actually like this change because it's fun to just rain arrows on the enemy. It just seems broken in a fundamental way.)

And yeah, movement abilities have always been this random grab bag of stuff that nobody actually wants but uses simply because there's an empty slot. It's like picking from the short bus. In a way, though, I think they're actually kinda valuable because something is better than nothing and it's not like you're learning something awesome replace something else that's awesome. Move +1 is awesome because there's nothing else to compete with it and it thus seems kinda essential.

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xyzzy

transience posted...
I'll keep closer tabs on Ignore Height this time around, but the main thing I think of is Zeakden. Archers get free reign to break a map that, under normal (vanilla) conditions, you wouldn't be able to do. Normally you have to walk all the way around but archers can just get up there and snipe guys all day. It completely breaks that climactic end to chapter 1.



Jump +3's never going to make this kind of impact on a singular map. Well, I guess maybe on those annoying as hell swamp levels, but that's just to get near the enemy. Here, the enemy cannot get near you at all.

(I should mention that I actually like this change because it's fun to just rain arrows on the enemy. It just seems broken in a fundamental way.)

And yeah, movement abilities have always been this random grab bag of stuff that nobody actually wants but uses simply because there's an empty slot. It's like picking from the short bus. In a way, though, I think they're actually kinda valuable because something is better than nothing and it's not like you're learning something awesome replace something else that's awesome. Move +1 is awesome because there's nothing else to compete with it and it thus seems kinda essential.

Yeah, the goal is to make stuff that can compete with Move+1, and have it cost a similar amount; hence why ignore height and Jump+3 and Move-HP Up are so early. (Move-HP Up isn't terribly successful at competing, to be fair).

And for the record, 6 jump is actually enough to make most of the gamebreaking jumps on Zeakden (you can jump from the top of the tower onto the bridge; if you're in the first group you can walk straight onto the tower. You only need 5 jump to hop on and off the lookout point across the street from Algus). And since all the enemies have jump 3, a 5 height cliff is more than enough to use cliff abuse on them. It's also a map where jumping over people's heads can be pretty relevant (as the knights tend to gum up the street between you and Algus). But sure, Ignore Height is probably slightly better overall on this map. (And slightly worse on the previous four or five maps that don't have any 8+ height jumps).

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

(I should mention that I actually like this change because it's fun to just rain arrows on the enemy. It just seems broken in a fundamental way.)

I think it's fun because it's what enemy archers do to you in about seven hundred different story battles and it's nice to have some payback.

Even in vanilla, archers were good there (though the only fast way up was from Ramza's side). Given how unimpressive vanilla archer was normally, it feels pretty inevitable for LFT archer to be broken there. So it goes.

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From: Felpool Leon | #055
But doesn't it also nerf some of them like Calculator? That's what I got from it.

Hm? LFT certainly has nerfs. mc was just discussing how in vanilla FFT reactions and supports are generally more valuable than movement, because the most powerful skillsets tend not to care much about movement.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

Zeklaus Desert

Resets: 1

I have had some miserable fights in Zeklaus over the years. Usually this fight finds a way to screw me instead of Dorter. This time it was the other way around. I had one bad fight where I didn't have any revive options because I had been leveling on a random map, but after that I kinda tore it apart.

My strategy was basically to run away into the back corner. The knights have poor mobility and I was able to accumulate a few times with my Monk. My Geomancer sat there using Elemental on the monks from range. Elemental has some sickass range, man. I basically slapped them to death and stopped them a few times.

By the time the knights were able to engage me, my Monk was able to hit them for 80 damage. My Priest focused on healing over black magic and my Thief was pretty much useless due to poor durability and failed weapon steals, but my Geomancer and Monk did the trick. I even waited around for a couple of guys to crystalize and picked up a buttload of abilities.

My Monk has been awesome but I don't want to go any further with him. I'm gonna turn him into a Knight with Equip Bow and pick up some break abilities. He's my low faith guy so I think I should be able to tank some damage and break some crap. Geomancer is building towards Counter Flood (Attack Up doesn't seem very useful for him), Priest went back to Wizard because I never hit level 2 to unlock Time Mage, and Thief is just picking up more Steal abilities. Good stuff.

I'm kinda wondering if Geomancer will end up being obsolete later in the game when his damage can't keep up. I dunno.

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xyzzy

I'm gonna turn him into a Knight with Equip Bow and pick up some break abilities.

This is what I did with Ramza on my first playthrough, it was great. A suggestion: get a Priest with Two Swords and dual-wield Mace of Zeuses. It's so much fun.

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oops. I somehow thought Ramza was an enemy thief and revived him. so much for beating Thieves Fort on my first try.

to be continued tomorrow!

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add the c and back away
iphonesience

Zeklaus Desert was tough for me last time I played LFT

In the past I've almost always stuck a Knight at the door on the second side and blocked it off while mages blased their stacked units. I've never actually experimented with retreating into the corner at the beginning but it makes sense if you've got ranged stuff.

I do that sometimes, but it's usually not a knight. I just buy time until I can take care of the monks and reunite my party near the door then try to wear down the knights before somebody crystalizes. LFT's got that damn archer that jumps on the roof and starts blasting my mages though.

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xyzzy

From: transcience | #062
oops. I somehow thought Ramza was an enemy thief and revived him. so much for beating Thieves Fort on my first try.

With how chapter 1 is really Ramza flashing back on events, that must be an interesting memory. "And then came the part where I died because my team is stupid and...wait, is that how it went?"

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Panthera posted...
From: transcience | #062
oops. I somehow thought Ramza was an enemy thief and revived him. so much for beating Thieves Fort on my first try.
With how chapter 1 is really Ramza flashing back on events, that must be an interesting memory. "And then came the part where I died because my team is stupid and...wait, is that how it went?"

It's also puzzling how he knows what his allies did while he was unconscious.

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SomeC - sheer explosives since meeting that crazy hobo.
BlAcK TuRtLe grabbed the Guru victory, slow but steady.

They probably told him once he woke up

Does leave it unexplained how he knew the private conversations that happened between a variety of people before he actually arrived on the scene himself though!

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

I thought it was azalam flashing back on events of Ramza's past. After all, the flashback starts with "Delita was first mentioned a year earlier blah blah blah

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My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Thieves Fort

Resets: 2
Party: Geomancer, Thief, Knight, Time Mage

These fights gave me more trouble than I would like to admit. Part of it is the small map, another part is my lack of firepower. In an attempt to be quirky, I've kind of forgone any kind of large damage. Geomancer can hit from range, Knight can break stuff, Thief can go two swords but can't take much damage, but there's no one to just blast enemies into oblivion. Miluda can get to my Time Mage fairly easily and Thieves can do good damage to my Thief and these White Mages are slinging bolt3.

My luck changed for the better when i got Haste on most of my party. That alone turned the tide in my favour. I also had good luck stealing the Mage Masher and breaking Miluda's equipment. I even stole her Iron Sword at the end for the hell of it. Geomancer didn't really do much in this fight and the axe is so damn random in its damage. Sometimes I need 20 damage and fail and others I one-shot enemies I wasn't expecting to kill. I don't like randomness.

I liked this fight when it was going well though. Thanks to innate float, I was able to hide my time mage in the corner while Miluda tried to reach her. Knight was pretty much useless thanks to minimal damage. I need to find a good way to deal damage with him because bows seem really weak.

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xyzzy

FFT THE BEST

FFT THE SECOND BEST GAME EVER TO BE EXACT

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From: Jeff Zero | #070
FFT THE BEST

FFT THE SECOND BEST GAME EVER TO BE EXACT

It's in the 5th-7th range for me.

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

Miluda 2

Resets: 0
Party: Geomancer, Thief, Knight, Time Mage, Summoner

I forget the name of this stage. Lenalia or something. This was super duper easy. Knights are no threat and the Wizards were too close to be scared of. LFT's superior Move and Axe one-shotting a wizard helped. I harvested some crystals and stole Miluda's stuff. So far my steal command has been 100%.

Now I've got a bunch of JP and am not sure where to go from here. I need to start working on secondaries or reaction skills. Maybe I'll get a Lancer.

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xyzzy

From: Panthera | #071
It's in the 5th-7th range for me.

What's your list?

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"Mr. Paris, I assume you've had a great deal of experience being rejected by women." ~SCP~
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From: transience | #072
I forget the name of this stage. Lenalia or something.

Lenalia Plateau I believe.

From: Jeff Zero | #073
What's your list?

Mother 3, Shadow of the Colossus, MGS3, Earthbound, then Fire Emblem 4, FFXII and FFT, not fully sure on the order of those three, probably the way I posted them as of now.

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

argh Wiegraf 1

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xyzzy

argh Wiegraf 1

Ludicrous! We'll die like dogs!!

From: Jeff Zero | #070
FFT THE BEST

FFT THE SECOND BEST GAME EVER TO BE EXACT

I fully support this statement. It's definitely my favorite rpg, prob my 3rd favorite game overall. :D

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Yeah well it's my favorite game without exception so you guys are just poseurs.

And yeah argh Wiegraf 1. Way harder in LFT cause of his inate defense up, too.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

between LFT Wiegraf 1 and 1.3 Wiegraf 1, I pretty much loathe this fight. I think it's because I always want to kill off all the randoms and take his equipment, but he doesn't even have anything really interesting. I should just learn to do as much damage as possible and get it over with.

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xyzzy

Man even in original FFT Wiegraf is a bit of a dick in that fight, since you don't get to bring many people and Delita's AI is stupid and Wiegraf tends to kill people very fast and you're left with little firepower to throw at him. Any hack that makes him any better is naturally going to be a pain.

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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

My most hated fight in the game is trying to learn Ultima

It isnt even worth it either :/

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Nice catch BlAcK TuRtLe.
But too bad your ass got SAAAAAAAAAAACKED.*tackles*

From: Lopen | #078
Yeah well it's my favorite game without exception so you guys are just poseurs.

^5 Bropen.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

well, that's one way to do it. I changed Ramza into an archer, hasted him, had him jump on the windmill and pump arrows into Wiegraf. 3 charge +4s were enough. no one else did any damage and I was down to two guys nearly instantly. Archer + attack up is a cool combo.

almost time for Zeakden - time to abuse ignore height!

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add the c and back away
iphonesience

FFT is somewhere in the top 5 for me I think

definitely awesome game

Yeah Wiegraf is a pain in any game, but in the original I can usually down him in one round without too much trouble. In LFT/1.3 you need to really work at a setup specifically made to damage in a short amount of time (and in 1.3, pray for some luck) or kill the monks/boko so he doesn't have healing.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

Can Mimes mimic monster abilities? That would be pretty rad.

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I don't recall ever having much trouble with LFT Wiegraf 1. But then, I do tend to favour high damage parties, so I'd usually have a Wizard or two maybe a Monk with Repeating Fist, probably someone with a decent Charge+....

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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

Augh Wiegraf.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Augh Wiegraf indeed. I'm fighting him now and I almost won, but Delita decided to screw me over. Sure, break the armor of the Monk that's almost dead and has a Mime behind it.

--
Yes, I laugh at my own jokes.
http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif

From: Blairville | #089
Augh Wiegraf indeed. I'm fighting him now and I almost won, but Delita decided to screw me over. Sure, break the armor of the Monk that's almost dead and has a Mime behind it.

Are you enjoying the wonderful magic of Mimes?

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

Yes I am, although he levels up so fast. 13 when my closest is 7, so I think I'll be going with 6 in my main party this playthrough. Also trying a bunch of classes I haven't used before, like the Bard.

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Yes, I laugh at my own jokes
it's been so long since I've gone to the village to visit my animal friends. I'm excited to play this ****.-Mer