Board 8 > Tom Ranks the Dominion Cards

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133. Diadem
Set: Cornucopia
Prize Treasure: $2. When you play this, +$1 per unused Action you have (Action, not Action card).

Analysis: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/06/08/cornucopia-tournament-prizes/

This seems great on paper, but really, how often is this going to be more than a Gold, or even a Silver? It's one of those cards that works better the worse your deck is- if you have that much +Action and no terminals to burn them up.....something probably went wrong somewhere. You could theoretically build a deck around it, but remember, it's a Prize. You will only ever have one, it's difficult to grab until towards the end of the game, and there's no guarantee you will even get it if your opponent outfoxes you with the Tournaments. That makes a "Diadem deck" a risky proposition at best. It could theoretically work with a bunch of village-type cards and some +buy, but it will be difficult to get Provinces and win a Tournament with such a deck, and the payoff is...not that great for something that will only happen once per shuffle.

Really, that's the problem with all the Prizes- barring extreme luck, you only get them towards the end of the game, and while they're all fairly nifty, are they REALLY worth the fuss required to grab them when you will probably only get a couple of plays?

At worst, Diadem's just a Silver, and frequently a Gold. It's not a BAD card, and I'd take it over Duchy most of the time, but it's not a GREAT card that justifies the hassle of getting one and setting it up to maximize its potential. I'd be a lot more interested in this card as, say, a $6 or so regular buy, but as it is, a single copy is not bound to rock your game's world.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

Yeah I wouldn't include the standard cards on this list, personally. How are you supposed to assess the value of them? Obviously a Curse is the worst card in the game to buy, but Curses are obviously one of the best cards in the game when you're handing them out to other people. What about Provinces and Colonies, buying them is basically how you win the game, does that make them the best card? The only standard cards that you can actually debate the merits of purchasing versus not purchasing are Silver, Duchy, and Potion, but even those can't really be compared to kingdom cards.

I don't think I'd include the prizes either since they're tied to tournament and assessing their worth is difficult. I do like tournament a lot though.

yeah if I had it to do again I'd leave 'em off "oh well"

They're mainly sorted by how they make me feel >_>

and there is a difference between "difficult" and "dumb" so pssshhhhh bring on the prizes

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Have to save this one.

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thanks

someday I will have reliable internet again

it might be today but I am busy anyway

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

preemptive save

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132. Navigator
Set: Seaside
$4 Action: +$2. Look at the top 5 cards of your deck. Either discard all of them, or put them back on top of your deck in any order.


There's not much to say here. It's a great support/defense card on a board that screws with the top of your deck in any fashion, and fairly underwhelming for the price otherwise.

With any sort of card that deals with the top of your deck, you can't really find a better solution than Navigator. It can shrug off Sea Hag and Ghost Ship, shut down Tribute, twist Thief to your advantage, help out a +card/+action engine that landed too heavily on +action, optimize Lookout or Scrying Pool or Hunting Party, and just generally rock face with anything of the sort.

When you don't have any top-deck shenanigans, though, it's a lot harder to justify. Discarding is one of those "how often is it REALLY helpful" abilities- you can get crappy hands out of the way, but can you really be sure with any frequency that the new hand will be better than whatever you draw? It is helpful for cycling the deck, but you know what's better at cycling and gives you +$2 and costs less? Chancellor. And in the absence of any of its nifty synergies and counters, the rearranging shtick does pretty much zero good unless you have an extra action and some +Cards to play. It quite frequently winds up as- you guessed it!- terminal silver.

It's just kinda there. It can be a lifesaver on some boards, but is pretty weak on the rest, and the interactions aren't QUITE fun enough to make up for it. There's nothing even close to filling its niche as well as it does, but that's a niche that frequently needs no filling.

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Dang ol' BlAcK TuRtLe man tell you what

Yeah, Navigator is basically a card I never play. Maybe it's okay against Sea Hag, but the thing about that is that I'm just going to buy a Sea Hag myself and have a Sea Hag off and once all the curses are gone Navigator no longer serves that function. Navigator I think needs either a +cards or a +actions function for me to care about it. Like even if it gave just +1 action so that it wasn't terminal, I'd be a little more okay with it.

I've only used it in one game where the board was pretty underwhelming for terminal actions. It was okay, I guess, but looking back on it I didn't actually use the discard option more than half the time.

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I think my biggest problem with Navigator is that you cannot be guaranteed that the card will have a useful effect. If you look at the top 5 cards, and you want to keep them, well, great. That did nothing for you except be an expensive terminal silver. There are some other cards that are like this - as a general rule, my philosophy is that if you can't expect to get the most out of the card you're buying, don't bother. Navigator is just really freakin' random.

Also it probably has the worst art of the entire game. Seriously who the hell drew that?

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From: cf is best | #113
Also it probably has the worst art of the entire game. Seriously who the hell drew that?

Harem.jpg

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131. Fortune Teller
Set: Cornucopia
$3 Action-Attack: +$2. Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until he reveals a Victory or Curse card. He puts it on top and discards the other revealed cards.



It's an attack for $3, and it performs about as well as one would expect for that price. You're killing one card of your opponent's next hand, but you're also cycling the deck for him in all likelihood, and that's an especially painful drawback in the early game when you're likely to be playing this card more often. There are also the usual top-deck counters for stuff like this, and they're generally also available early.

The other issue is that it really doesn't help your own deck all that much, save for the terminal silver you can get from a bazillion other cards, and attacks, especially terminal ones, that don't provide much direct benefit to the player tend to be miles behind attacks that do both. Consider Sea Hag and Witch- the measly +2 Cards on Witch is enough to put it at the higher price despite Sea Hag being a somewhat stronger attack.

It's a neat effect, but being terminal and potentially cycling the opponent are two pretty big drawbacks that make it a questionable buy in comparison with Silver, and inferior to quite a few $3 options. I'll personally buy a couple if there's nothing else interesting on a $3 turn, but darned if I haven't regretted it more times than not.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

Yeah, having Fortune Teller as the second worst attack ahead of Thief sounds about right. It seems weird to have an attack released this late that is just so awful when usually the only weak attacks have been in the base set besides Saboteur which should be coming up soon on this list...

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http://www.last.fm/user/TehMop
Congrats to BlackTurtle!

about that

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

130. Trade Route
Set: Prosperity
$3 Action: +1 Buy; +$1 per token on the Trade Route mat. Trash a card from your hand. Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Analysis: http://dominionstrategy.com/2010/11/16/prosperity-trade-route/

Trade Route is one of those cards that tends to disappoint me. Those are three nice effects, but the problem is that they're rarely useful at the same time. Early in the game, the trashing is nice, but the +Buy is virtually useless and you may or may not get any money at all. Mid-game, you might get more money, but you still probably don't need +Buy and the trashing is likely to be more hurtful than helpful. End-game, the monetary aspect is finally pretty helpful, but if you've been trashing faithfully throughout the game, more trashing is almost certainly going to hurt you as your deck greens up. Rather than being a card that is useful in different ways throughout the game, it tends to wind up as a card that isn't that good at any point.

Most of the synergy type things are covered in the DS article. It DOES sync particularly well with some of the things mentioned, but otherwise it struggles. Unless given a particular reason to, (Goons, Gardens, Barons, and so forth) people rarely buy Estates, and Duchies similarly usually make it to endgame before they may or may not start selling. It's probably supposed to rock face in the endgame, but there's no guarantee it'll ever be much more than +$1 unless there's something interesting on the board. Early, cheap trashing is always nice, but in the early game it's hard to justify a terminal action that trashes only one card for +Buy and mayyyyybe a buck or two.

It can be pretty nice if there's good synergy with the board, but otherwise it struggles to find a niche and a use. It can be a tempting $3 buy, but oftentimes you're better off just going with Silver.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

Fortune Teller is an absolutely awful card, I'd argue it should be lower. You've got Trade Route too low though - no trasher, not even the kind of crappy ones, should be this low, honestly. Trade Route has its uses, although I generally only look towards it when it's the only trasher, or when it's in a game with at least 5 different green cards (usually colony + one other). It's weak early in the game, and it sort of demands some +actions to be played with it, but it's usually valuable later on and that +buy can be a big deal in setups that are lacking them.

129. Harvest
Set: Cornucopia
$5 Action- Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck, then discard them. +$1 per differently named card revealed.


I am not a huge fan of cards that rely on a diverse deck, which is odd since I am often kinda all over the place with my purchases. They tend to not be worth it unless there are a couple out there that both encourage diversifying, and there just aren't that many boards where buying enough different crap to power these cards is going to be better than a cohesive plan of attack.

This one...has potential, and I probably should've rated it over Horn of Plenty, with which I always confuse it. It seems to average out to terminal Gold, which while not amazing is not horrible for $5. Terminal Silver is pretty horrible for $5, but you're probably more likely to gets +$4 than +$2....but the risk is always kinda scary. Unless there's a deck full of awesome stuff you want to buy, none of which is at $5, or there aren't any better terminals, it is not that great a buy at all.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

Harvest is one I was waiting for. I never play it, and I believe it is as useless as it sounds. Early in the game, you can't use it as a slingshot to get up to 6 or 9, because your deck is mostly Estates and Coppers, Later, you're better off just getting Gold and Platinum instead of dicking around with this risky terminal. It cycles your deck, I guess, which is sort of nice? Maybe you could use this in combination with like Navigator or something to rearrange your deck but then you need +actions and this has already gotten far too complicated really. Harvest sucks.

Harvest is ranked higher than Trade Route? Really? Trade Route can be great late game if you've got a strong engine and cycle every turn. With the extra buy, you can pick up a Copper so you always have something to trash with Trade Route.

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"Coinflip is sacred."

...How is that helpful? If you're using the +Buy to get junk to fuel the trashing, all that's doing is giving you a +$X as a terminal, and it's not likely to be worth much more than $3. Is that the best you can do with a strong engine that cycles every turn?

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

Trade Route is usually worth $4 whenever I play with it (Colony, Great Hall, Gardens, Duke, etc.) and.. it's a trash outlet. I'm not saying it's an amazing card. I'm just very disappointed to see something like Harvest ranking higher. Hell, Harvest ranking higher than Swindler is also pretty terrible in my opinion.

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"Coinflip is sacred."

I rarely see Trade Route hit $4, especially since people rarely touch Estates unless there's Baron or Hoard or something, and I don't see THAT many Province or Duchy buys in Colony games either.

Harvest probably is a bit high though.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

128. Estate
Set: Basic
$2 Victory- 1VP


Another silly common card. Estate doesn't get enough love, I feel like. Sure, it really holds you back in the early game, and is pretty much the highest priority trash card other than Curse and MAYBE Copper depending on the situation, but a couple of Estates in endgame can make a surprising amount of difference, and once you're in the final mad scramble for points, how much is one more green card going to slow you down?

Estate's also kinda fun for Baron and stuff, but yeah, at the end of the day, it's a junk card, and rarely little more.

127. Wishing Well
Set: Intrigue
$3 Action- +1 Card; +1 Action. Name a card, then reveal the top card of your deck. If it is the named card, put it in your hand.

Analysis: http://dominionstrategy.com/2010/12/07/intrigue-wishing-well/

The DS blog once again does a better job of analyzing the potential of this card than I will, but whatever. Wishing Well is a very difficult card to set up and support properly, but unlike some of the cards I have criticized in such a fashion, the payoff is decently worth it for a $3 card. It's nifty for highly specific engines like Minion, and the fact that it's a cantrip makes it an inoffensive option even if it fails, which it will most of the time. It doesn't discard the card revealed, which can be either annoying or quite helpful in the presence of things like Lookout or Native Village. Multiple Wishing Wells is quite nice for obvious reasons, but that's hard to set up without committing really hard. And unlike Pearl Diver, it won't leave you stuck for an entire cycle with crap on the bottom.

It combos decently well with things like Navigator IF you can set it up, but again that's a lot of effort to go to, and quite possibly not worth it. Like the blog says, though, it works well with some reactions and attacks. Otherwise, though, it's a pain to set up a Wishing Well that will hit reliably. I also suck at counting cards, so somebody who is better at that would probably find this card a bit more useful.

Wishing Well isn't a BAD card, but it's usually worth a miss unless there's a good support for it and not much else at $3.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/30/annotated-game-8/

An interesting example of why Wishing Well is sometimes pretty cool.

this internet isn't good enough for isotropic :\

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

i played this game for the first time today

and didnt come in last

good job me

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it's an underwater adventure ride

Naye745 posted...
i played this game for the first time today

and didnt come in last

good job me

Yay you! Here's a couple tips for just starting out:

1. Trashers are very important. You want to get rid of your starting Estates and Copper ASAP if it's possible. This is why Chapel is one of the most powerful cards in the game.

2. Remember to buy treasure. Sure, Actions are more fun, but a hand of 3 Smithies isn't going to do you much good. Loading up on terminal (non-replacing) Actions is a common newbie mistake and one you would do best do avoid.

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on the other hand +Actions won't do you much good if you don't have terminals to play with them

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

Minion had better be high up there!

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I

Forgot to tag this earlier.

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It's been five days, Tom!

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It's iubaris, not Lubaris.

Almost 7 now.

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tom ranks the bottom 19 dominion cards

with writeups

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126. Salvager
Set: Seaside
$4 Action- +1 Buy. Trash a card from your hand. +$ equal to its cost.


One of the drawbacks to taking forever to make progress on a top list is that your opinions change over time, and I've been pretty high on trash-for-benefit of late, this here being the primary example. The obvious use is to trash your crap cards and get better ones, but there are some other nifty tricks to do with it. You can think of it as a Swindler on yourself- use it to turn the Chapel or Witch you don't need anymore into a Haven or Lab, stuff like that, and then still buy whatever else you were gonna buy that turn. Alternatively, it's good for draining a pile quickly to end game- one of my favorite dick moves is to trash my Provinces and buy new ones with the money generated.

It's a debatable opener- trashing an Estate AND scoring $2 is pretty nifty early, but if you miss your Estates with it, it quickly becomes less useful. Perhaps you could pair it with some sort of slingshot and then clear out even the outdated cheap actions, but most of the good slingshots are also $4, so good luck with that. It works pretty well in the midgame, as there are probably some low-level actions you don't reeeally need and they can ramp up your buying power quickly....almost too quickly, sometimes. It always sucks getting $9-10 in a 2-buy turn, but it's a nice problem to have. Late game is where it particularly shines, as in endgame you should be willing to completely wreck your deck to get a couple of extra provinces/colonies, and if you are willing and able to pay the price, there are few cards better at guaranteeing you hit that mark.

It works particularly well with Hoard- +Buy lets you buy more Victory Cards and thus more Gold, and then you can trash those Victories later to clean out your deck and get some monster turns going. It's one of the few trashing cards that works okay with Golem, as even on a terrible forced usage, the worst-case scenario is that you can buy it back, and there's usually SOMETHING you can do without in exchange for big bucks. There are better cards out there for dealing with Curses, but a trash is a trash.

All in all, a pretty dandy card. Not useful on EVERY board, but often quite handy and rarely outright bad for you. This should be higher.

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

This should be higher.

Absolutely. This is one of the best trash-for-benefit cards in the game. This card sets up double province buy turns with incredible ease and also makes it very simple to speed up the game when you're in the lead by trashing provinces/colonies and buying one to replace them. This should be a lot higher. It's also amazing with Peddler.

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Congrats to BlackTurtle!

that tom and his never updating

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)