Board 8 > Just finished watching Monster thanks to B8's recommendation. *no spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Amazing build-up, hilariously awful resolution. Never before have I come across such a mishandling of excellent early exposition. Leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, and I've got to be honest, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. 74 episodes of wasted potential.

Oh well, I guess my faith in finding good anime has finally been shattered! ^_^

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

have you watched Baccano!

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You're literally the first person I've seen here who hasn't showered the conclusion with praise!

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Full rap metal jacket ~ Method Man

What exactly did you think was bad about it? I loved it the whole way through and trust me I'm not too much of an anime guy. I can count the anime I 'love' on one hand

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Did you watch Baccano yet

That surpassed B8's #1 recommended anime long ago.

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~LtM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1028/ltm.png

That surpassed B8's #1 recommended anime long ago.

This is true, but now I'm skeptical!

Since everyone's being civil about my dissent of the show's conclusion, here are some of my thoughts in brief.

*light spoilers*


The main problem I had with the story was its driving force- or rather, lack of driving force. Never did I buy for a minute that Tenma would go through with his plan, so what kept me captivated was digging deeper and deeper into the subconscious of the killer. Once Neo-Nazis and controlled breeding got involved, I was on the edge of my seat, and the chilling children's story basically pushed me over the edge. Alas, the feeling was not to last: as it turns out, the killer himself had no real motivation and no basis for his clout of confidence. The entirety of his supposed "program" was left shrouded in mystery, without a trace of believability. In other words, the show pulled a LOST on me, and I really should've seen it coming.

Everything else disappointed due to predictability. Early hospital arc was bad (Doctors who play politics are bad! Tenma's above that, so he's the good guy!), most of the supporting cast was dreadful and paper-thin (Robert aside), and the resolution was, as previously mentioned, mind-numbingly awful. Speaking of Robert, his character got no real resolution despite being arguably the most interesting on the show, and the way the killer got his just desserts was LOL-worthy.

I just... see no real reason for liking this show. I especially see no reason why it had to be 74 episodes long. A better writer/editor could've cut this down to the traditional 25 no problem.


*end spoilers*

So what am I missing? FYI, I'd probably give the show a 6/10, or middle-of-the-road anime.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

I'd say Monster's biggest flaw is it being slow paced but otherwise I don't have any problems with it. I'd give it a solid 9.

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*more spoilers + rant augh*


Seriously cannot get over how badly they botched Robert's resolution. For essentially the entire second half of the show, we kept seeing this character pop up to do Johan's bidding. He was poised, qualified, confident, always with a presence and shrouded in impermeable enigma. Who was he? What was his past? Why was he so intent on following Johan's plan? What could have given this hardened killer such inspiration? Then finally comes the final episode, when all is revealed...

"oh i'm just a dumbass follower with no motivation LOL"
"LOL kay thanks rob"


*end*

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

A middle of the road anime? I don't think you are aware of the kind of **** that the majority of anime is.

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Connecticut Huskies

Also, the reason it's 74 episodes long is because... they did a direct adaptation of the manga and didn't cut any of it.

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Connecticut Huskies

A middle of the road anime? I don't think you are aware of the kind of **** that the majority of anime is.

Good point, but this is more telling about anime's general crap factor than it is any kind of credit to Monster.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

Opinion on Grimmer?

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Will not change sig unless the Sens win the Stanley Cup. Started 2/19/07

Well, you could have said middle of the road TV show, movie, or whatever. Most everything is ****.

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Connecticut Huskies

Also, the reason it's 74 episodes long is because... they did a direct adaptation of the manga and didn't cut any of it.

Well then they probably shouldn't have done that!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

I'm sure they're kicking themselves that some guy's alt didn't like their adaptation.

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Connecticut Huskies

I'm sure they're kicking themselves that some guy's alt didn't like their adaptation.

Always love hearing this. The same people who defend anime as "art" are also the quickest to flip out at the slightest hint of negativity, even though that comes with the territory. If you don't want to participate in some healthy criticism, then feel free to log onto one of the many Monster websites on this wonderful world we call the Internet.

Moving back on-topic, another major problem I have with the show is a complete lack of believability. This is supposed to be a more "mature" show, right? The gravity of the subject matter and art direction suggest as much, not to mention that complex web of a plot. So why is it that major characters are running into each other left and right at bafflingly opportune times? Strikes me more like the latest Scooby-Doo! serial than a serious drama. Even the final arc is guilty of this: the presence of a certain sister, there for no other reason other than to get all the major characters in one place, reeks of cheap convenience.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

From: BoshStrikesBack | #016
Always love hearing this. The same people who defend anime as "art" are also the quickest to flip out at the slightest hint of negativity, even though that comes with the territory. If you don't want to participate in some healthy criticism, then feel free to log onto one of the many Monster websites on this wonderful world we call the Internet.

I don't know where you got any of this. I'm the one that reminded you that the majority of anime is ****.

Besides, it's arrogant to say they shouldn't have adapted the manga the way they did just because you didn't like the ending.

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Connecticut Huskies

I don't know where you got any of this. I'm the one that reminded you that the majority of anime is ****.

I know, you made your position clear enough. Just making a "for the record" point.

Besides, it's arrogant to say they shouldn't have adapted the manga the way they did just because you didn't like the ending.

First, you could say this about any type of criticism. Don't like a portrait? It's "arrogant" because you're not a painter! Don't care for a tune? You're not a musician! And the list goes on.

Second, it's not a baseless criticism on my part. Books and televisions are two vastly different mediums, one visual and the other entirely mental. Without getting into the question of which is "better," suffice to say that each medium has its own strengths and weaknesses. Books and mangas lack the visual component, but can be read at the pace of the particular reader. Not so with anime! Here, pacing is definite, and if things drag on too long without much development, you risk losing the interest of your audience. Trying to translate material from one medium to another directly is almost always a bad idea.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

Books and mangas lack the visual component

wait what

Always love hearing this. The same people who defend anime as "art" are also the quickest to flip out at the slightest hint of negativity

I don't even get what you're trying to say here

All television is art

There's nothing to defend, it's a fact

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~LtM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1028/ltm.png

What's my position?

That you're not some die-hard anime guy, but you think I should be giving Monster more credit and disagree with a number of my criticisms. Which is totes fine, by the way.

And we're getting off track. More than talk about anime vs. books etc. etc., I'd like to hear about what everyone else feels about the show!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

From: BoshStrikesBack | #018
I know, you made your position clear enough.

What's my position?

And to clarify, on the other point, to say "they shouldn't have done it because I didn't like it" is never a very convincing argument. Other people like things I don't like, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep doing it for people that did like it.

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Connecticut Huskies

From: KimPilgrim | #020
All television is art

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http://img.imgcake.com/VincentLauw/ILOVEGOLFgifva.gif

Movies are art. Books are art. Music is art. Television is art.

Not hard to comprehend.

I mean I'm not including the news and ****.

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~LtM
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1028/ltm.png

You do realize that manga are basically storyboards with better art, right? Direct adaptations with manga happen all the time.

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Connecticut Huskies

I'm a pretty big fan of Monster, I really like it. I don't think its flawless, I gave it an 8 on MyAnimeList, which is very good.

But yeah, the conclusion, while I like it, is very much "horror movie cliffhanger" ish, and I'm used to that and don't mind that. Kind of like the Twin Peaks ending, not that the endings are at similar, just in that they give me that vibe.

But yeah, they could've done more and gone more places with the main conflict, considering the length.

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I think the whole point of Roberto was having no motivations, demonstrating how far Kinderheim 511 could go in affecting the psychology of children. It's part of his character. I really liked that Monster didn't tag a complicated backstory to all its character. They actually felt human. He had nowhere to go. He was nobody. He didn't even have a name.

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Surskit
.-#Elements of Water#-.

I'm a pretty big fan of Monster, I really like it. I don't think its flawless, I gave it an 8 on MyAnimeList, which is very good.

But yeah, the conclusion, while I like it, is very much "horror movie cliffhanger" ish, and I'm used to that and don't mind that. Kind of like the Twin Peaks ending, not that the endings are at similar, just in that they give me that vibe.

But yeah, they could've done more and gone more places with the main conflict, considering the length.

Glad you can see where I'm coming from. Since you seem to have experience with anime, do you feel I'm off-base for preferring the resolution of Death Note? Both are hybrid detective / psychological thriller stories, but where Monster is driven by the hazy, nihilistic motives of Johan, DN's characters all have understandable motivations with clear impacts and consequences. I know people despise all things Near, but the anime did a much better job than the manga at making him less omniscient. And speaking of things the anime did better, it actually left the "winner" of the story up to the viewer, which was nice!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.

I'm with you on that, I love Death Note from beginning to end, great ending.

If you haven't seen it, I recommend RAINBOW, very cool gritty anime about dudes trying to get by in post WW2 Japan.

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One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-