Board 8 > Sonic 3 & Knuckles, what an amazing game

(+) Yeah! (+)

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OmarsComin posted...
at least with staryu though I feel like I have some control over my situation. I know as I come towards him he'll blow up and I can see the trajectory the spikes will take. with scyther I'm usually catapulted face-first into his claws with no warning and no way to avoid it. bad news all around.

That's true. I think the only thing we can all agree on is that while they're trolls just the same, the Kinglers aren't as bad.

There are a couple of times where you jump to the right and a Kingler's extended arm is waiting for you but next to those other two it's nothing.

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yeah that's true. kingler is minor leagues for that level. I just watched a Let's Play of Metropolis and the guy complained about the kinglers a bunch, seemed kind of silly.

OmarsComin posted...
yeah that's true. kingler is minor leagues for that level. I just watched a Let's Play of Metropolis and the guy complained about the kinglers a bunch, seemed kind of silly.

Yeah. There's one part in... I think early Act 2 that's particularly annoying and Kingler-related but they've got nothing on Scythers and Staryus.

I always feel so accomplished when I'm done with Metropolis. So very, very relieved.

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There's one area I can think of where there's a Kingler waiting for you at the end of a ledge, and it prevents you from taking the high road, but other than that, yeah. The only problem I have with the Kinglers is that they seem to have weird hitboxes, like I can't tell where I can actually hit the thing to kill it. There were times when I thought I jumped on its head and missed the claw, and I still got hit.

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From: Jeff Zero | #104
I always feel so accomplished when I'm done with Metropolis. So very, very relieved.

And then you get a relaxing plane ride to calm you down!

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LeonhartFour posted...
There's one area I can think of where there's a Kingler waiting for you at the end of a ledge, and it prevents you from taking the high road, but other than that, yeah. The only problem I have with the Kinglers is that they seem to have weird hitboxes, like I can't tell where I can actually hit the thing to kill it. There were times when I thought I jumped on its head and missed the claw, and I still got hit.

I know what you're talking about. Bumped into that problem the other day.

This is the kind of stuff that puts S3&K ahead of the game for me. I never run into these issues. Of course to be fair, these issues only really crop up on Metropolis.

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Yeah, it's mostly a Metropolis thing.

Although I do occasionally find myself randomly running into those lightning bugs in Mystic Ruins or those octopus things in Oil Ocean.

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LeonhartFour posted...
Yeah, it's mostly a Metropolis thing.

Although I do occasionally find myself randomly running into those lightning bugs in Mystic Ruins or those octopus things in Oil Ocean.

The lightning bugs are kind of bad about that but to a point, I think they're supposed to be.

Mystic Ruins is where Sonic 2's difficulty amps up, I think. Ever notice how each of those games has a sudden ramp-up where you have to really start paying attention by comparison? Always felt like Sonic 2 was easy mode 'til around then. Well... maybe Sonic 1 doesn't. Sonic 1 has an easy first stage, a more challenging second, an annoying third and fourth (although I still like Spring Yard, it's fun anyway imo), a fun fifth and an annoying sixth.

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Yeah, Sonic 2 definitely does a good job of upping the difficulty curve there.

Although I do love the random "Grounder busts out of the wall" moments in Aquatic Ruin.

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LeonhartFour posted...
Yeah, Sonic 2 definitely does a good job of upping the difficulty curve there.

Although I do love the random "Grounder busts out of the wall" moments in Aquatic Ruin.

Oh yeah. Those are pretty exciting.

And I always felt like Hill Top Zone was there as something of a respite, especially in the first act. It's so calm. I even feel that way about the underground-ish lava stuff. It just feels like a breeze with some funky music and apatosauruses.

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The only "Double Album" pair of games in gaming history...

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Epyo the Great posted...
The only "Double Album" pair of games in gaming history...

Indeed.

Sonic 3 is significantly lesser without its twin but Sonic & Knuckles holds strong. I love all the gameplay tweaks from 2 to 3 but without the power of S3&K I'd easily put 2 ahead of the curb.

But S3&K combined. Man. That's the only way to play. What a thrill.

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Although I do love the random "Grounder busts out of the wall" moments in Aquatic Ruin.

those sections trained me to always be rolling whenever I'm moving forward. etched into my brain forever.

Hill Top is pretty decent, but it's nothing special aside from the apatosaurus sightings. It has a major lack of high speed sections where you can really run unhindered though.

That's one of the things I love about Chemical Plant Zone. There are a few moments where Sonic is running so fast, it looks like he's about to outrun the screen.

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Yeah, if I were to break S3&K apart, I'd go S&K > S2 > S3 > S1

But together, it's no contest.

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LeonhartFour posted...
Hill Top is pretty decent, but it's nothing special aside from the apatosaurus sightings. It has a major lack of high speed sections where you can really run unhindered though.

That's one of the things I love about Chemical Plant Zone. There are a few moments where Sonic is running so fast, it looks like he's about to outrun the screen.

Yeah, I'm not saying Hill Top's anything amazing. Just feels kind of cool in a chill sort of way.

Chemical Plant is pretty terrific. Chemical Plant is also when my non-Sonic friends always take note and get intrigued when they're over and I'm messing around with the Mega Collection. You know when -- precisely when you mentioned. Those moments are exceptional.

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S&K > S3 = S1 > S2 I think

LeonhartFour posted...
Yeah, if I were to break S3&K apart, I'd go S&K > S2 > S3 > S1

But together, it's no contest.

Exactly my ranking. Together, though, it's like... hah.

S3&K >>> S2 >> S1

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I used to be so bad at Chemical Plant Zone when I was a kid. I used to fall through those platforms that pulled away and miss the jumps to those moving platforms that take you across the chemical sea. I used to drown in that sea so many times because I couldn't get back to the surface in time.

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Chemical Zone is another one where a childhood memory bothers me even though I have no problem with the section now. It's that part in Act 2 before the boss where you have to jump up the rotating four block sets while chemicals rise, and if you miss a platform later you have to redo the whole section. I like the rest of the stage and that part is no sweat now but there's a sour taste from 15 years ago still stuck in there.

LeonhartFour posted...
I used to be so bad at Chemical Plant Zone when I was a kid. I used to fall through those platforms that pulled away and miss the jumps to those moving platforms that take you across the chemical sea. I used to drown in that sea so many times because I couldn't get back to the surface in time.

I remember one of those parts having an extra life that could keep you going if you messed up. That was kind of sweet. Reminds me of the extra life before the super-argh part of Sky Fortress you could find by going leftward at the top of the ship. Always comes in handy.

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I know exactly what you mean. That section was a place of nightmares when I was a kid, too!

There was always that one section in Casino Night where I'm trying to get past this one place with bumpers and stuff, and it always seemed to bounce me back and not let me get ahead. I can't describe the exact spot correctly (I know it's in Act 2), but I remember I used to literally run out of time because I got stuck there for so long.

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LeonhartFour posted...
I know exactly what you mean. That section was a place of nightmares when I was a kid, too!

There was always that one section in Casino Night where I'm trying to get past this one place with bumpers and stuff, and it always seemed to bounce me back and not let me get ahead. I can't describe the exact spot correctly (I know it's in Act 2), but I remember I used to literally run out of time because I got stuck there for so long.

I know what you're talking about. It's the one place in Casino Night Zone that becomes frustrating, sudden jolts of "oh god, watch out for the boxes" notwithstanding.

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Man, I was playing Wing Fortress earlier, and I discovered there was an extra life in the place where Robotnik was after the boss fight!

You learn something new all the time! The Genesis games are so full of little goodies and alternate routes that you always seem to find something new if you're really looking for them.

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Reminds me of the extra life before the super-argh part of Sky Fortress you could find by going leftward at the top of the ship. Always comes in handy.

I have a special relationship with that section because I always played with a friend, and we played "controller switches when Sonic dies." That part of Wing Fortress is one of the easiest parts for an antagonistic Tails to kill you so he can take over first player controller. I'm pretty sure we spent a couple hours on that section getting the life over and over, trying to figure out how to ditch Tails at the right spots or make it through with him trying to kill you. It's a test of wills.

LeonhartFour posted...
Man, I was playing Wing Fortress earlier, and I discovered there was an extra life in the place where Robotnik was after the boss fight!

You learn something new all the time! The Genesis games are so full of little goodies and alternate routes that you always seem to find something new if you're really looking for them.

I discovered that extra life the other day! I was playing Sonic 2 via PS3 since there's that PlayStation Plus that gave it to me for free until the membership runs out. Usually I play on the Wii with the Mega Collection for GameCube but my Wii's lent-out right now.

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I suspect my dislike of Carnival Night comes from a similar experience, actually. There's a couple good spots where Tails can purposefully kill Sonic or at least prevent him from advancing. Any time you run into one of those platforms where you have to jump up to raise it higher, Tails can stop you if he wants to.

OmarsComin posted...
Reminds me of the extra life before the super-argh part of Sky Fortress you could find by going leftward at the top of the ship. Always comes in handy.

I have a special relationship with that section because I always played with a friend, and we played "controller switches when Sonic dies." That part of Wing Fortress is one of the easiest parts for an antagonistic Tails to kill you so he can take over first player controller. I'm pretty sure we spent a couple hours on that section getting the life over and over, trying to figure out how to ditch Tails at the right spots or make it through with him trying to kill you. It's a test of wills.

Hahaha. Awesome.

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always play on a Model 2 real life Sega Genesis baby

Also, I hate the boss fight at the end of Casino Night Zone. It's not even that hard. It's just annoying to actually try to land a shot on him because you have to use the flippers or spin dash up the side of the walls and sometimes you get above where you can see Robotnik, and so you can't hit him on the way down unless you get lucky.

And if you get really unlucky, sometimes Sonic will come out of ball form as he bounces around up there, and then you'll land on Robotnik!

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OmarsComin posted...
always play on a Model 2 real life Sega Genesis baby

Oh how I'd love to. I need to get one again. I haven't owned one since 1997.

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LeonhartFour posted...
Also, I hate the boss fight at the end of Casino Night Zone. It's not even that hard. It's just annoying to actually try to land a shot on him because you have to use the flippers or spin dash up the side of the walls and sometimes you get above where you can see Robotnik, and so you can't hit him on the way down unless you get lucky.

And if you get really unlucky, sometimes Sonic will come out of ball form as he bounces around up there, and then you'll land on Robotnik!

Yeah, that's my least favorite boss fight in Sonic 2. Exactly those reasons. It's just frustrating in a very oi-way rather than an "oh, exciting challenge" way.

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From: OmarsComin | #128
I suspect my dislike of Carnival Night comes from a similar experience, actually. There's a couple good spots where Tails can purposefully kill Sonic or at least prevent him from advancing. Any time you run into one of those platforms where you have to jump up to raise it higher, Tails can stop you if he wants to.

There's also those bouncy things in Ice Cap! CPU controlled Tails messes me up there quite frequently!

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on the Casino Night boss, can't you just jump off the wall for an easy hit? like hit the jump button as you're horizontally level with him and it all works out. if we're complaining about bosses I'd like to lodge a complaint against the Chemical one where Tails can make him invincible long enough for you to fall into the pit and die.

From: OmarsComin | #135
on the Casino Night boss, can't you just jump off the wall for an easy hit? like hit the jump button as you're horizontally level with him and it all works out. if we're complaining about bosses I'd like to lodge a complaint against the Chemical one where Tails can make him invincible long enough for you to fall into the pit and die.

Sometimes you can, but if you're going directly under Robotnik, he drops that red thing and sometimes you'll land right on it on the way down.

I always seem to anyway.

And yeah, Tails is such a troll when it comes to some bosses.

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ITT people mad they couldn't beat Carnival Night as a kid

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Carnival Night still isn't all that good today!

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OmarsComin posted...
S&K > S3 = S1 > S2 I think

good man btw

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Replayed some Sonic 1 tonight. I think the lack of spin dash hurts it overall. And there's just something about the Labyrinth Zone that I dread with every fiber of my being whenever I play it. I am literally uncomfortable every second I play this zone.

Spring Yard is better than I remember though, so there's that. Marble Zone is great, not sure why some people don't like it. To me, it's the classic "Hey, Sonic isn't all about holding right and occasionally jumping; there's some real platforming involved here" zone.

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Uncomfortableness is good for a level/game! Keeps it from being too easy or monotonous. Part of the reason I like "tough" levels like Metropolis, Sandopolis, and Labyrinth

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Carnival Night is quite fun, but it's nothing amazing. Sometimes it's a bit cramped, bouncy ramps get annoying, music isn't memorable. Lower-tier S3+K zone, while still being perfectly passable overall.

Also, I sometimes question why I ever thought S2 was better. S3+K has higher highs (Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg) and S2 has lower lows (Aquatic f***ing Ruin) (unless you want to count "Hidden Palace as Knuckles" as a zone >_>). That said, I still actually think it's close, just because S2 is consistent. Really like every zone in the game, except Aquatic f***ing Ruin, and even that one is...playable, I suppose. I like Metropolis a lot too!

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From: WiggumFan267 | #141
Uncomfortableness is good for a level/game! Keeps it from being too easy or monotonous. Part of the reason I like "tough" levels like Metropolis, Sandopolis, and Labyrinth

It's really got nothing to do with difficulty. Even when nothing was happening, I was uncomfortable.

Just childhood trauma is tough to overcome!

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Also, am I the only person who bops Sonic's head up and down in tune with the music during sections of the game where you're not moving?

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LeonhartFour posted...
Also, am I the only person who bops Sonic's head up and down in tune with the music during sections of the game where you're not moving?

No. >_>

LeonhartFour posted...
Also, am I the only person who bops Sonic's head up and down in tune with the music during sections of the game where you're not moving?

Hell yes.
Up bopping only ftw.

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I occasionally duck in time to the music, no up bopping though

Yeah Marble Zone is really good. One of my favorite levels in the series. That first spot where you have to jump off the block on the lava ride took me a while to figure out as a kid, always used to hit my head on the ceiling and fall into the lava. There's a couple weird glitchy places in that level though. There's of course those spots the speedruns use where you can skip a lot of the level by being pushed into the wall. There's also at least one spot where you can make the screen scroll up while you're supposed to be going down and it will kill you (ruined my "No Death All Emeralds" run attempt a while back).

I'm pretty sure I've played Sonic 1 more than the other two by a good deal. It's the only one I can beat without dying, though I'm pretty close on S3&K. I die 1-3 times on average on a runthrough of that. S2 probably a couple more times. I also rarely get all the emeralds in S2 because of how the rings situation works with the bonus stages. I've heard you can get all the emeralds just from the first two acts, but I've never tried.

I've beaten Sonic 1 without dying.
Sonic 2 I can always not die up until the final boss. Don't have the persistence to try that without it though.
Sonic 3 alone no problem.
Not sure about S&K/S3K. Been a while, so maybe

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Yeah, Sonic 2 is by far the hardest for me when it comes to getting all the emeralds. I'm really bad at that without a friend controlling Tails.

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oh **** CPU tails on the S2 Emerald Stages, punk is what he is