Current Events > Just learned a sad fact about Lord of the Rings ending SPOILERS

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https://youtu.be/pciR1eElWoQ

Go to 46 minutes and 30 seconds

Top 10 misunderstood facts of LotR. Fact 2 is that mortals don't become immortal in the Undying Lands. They actually die sooner. When Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli went to the Undying Lands, they only got to enjoy it for a short time before dying maybe less than year later. Frodo and Bilbo were dead when Sam came. And Sam was dead by the dead Gimli arrived

The Hobbits did not earn eternal life. And Sam never saw Frodo again

Pretty fucked up

Also this means that Legolas will never see Gimli again, except maybe if he commits suicide. And I have no idea what suicide does to a soul in Middle Earth

One could still hold out hope that the mortals all meet up somewhere beyond the living world in whatever afterlife exists. But Legolas will never die. So when Gimli died, that was their goodbye forever

They shoulda put the mortality thing in the cruise brochure.

i knew about them still being human/hobbit etc. but why would they die sooner? accelerated aging?

AsucaHayashi posted...

i knew about them still being human/hobbit etc. but why would they die sooner? accelerated aging?

Yes, apparently. The video says something about the Undying Lands speeds up your lifespan. It wasn't ever meant to be visited by mortal races

I knew they would die, but not that quickly. Tolkien did change his mind on things a bit so it could be different within the story itself, though that's a stretch.

Yeah, but they're together in *actual* LOTR heaven.... right?

Right....?

HylianFox posted...

Yeah, but they're together in *actual* LOTR heaven.... right?

Right....?

Everyone but Legolas. He can't reach heaven

You never know. Eru Ilvatar might change his mind and let everybody live together in happiness with him at the end of the world. He's god, he could do that.

Zikten posted...

Everyone but Legolas. He can't reach heaven

Why did I read this in Cartman's voice

Zikten posted...

mortals don't become immortal in the Undying Lands. They actually die sooner.

Technically speaking, that depends entirely on what Iluvatar wants. He alone can change the rules to suit his wishes - it's implied that Tuor (a Man) was granted immortality in the Undying Lands, and Luthien (an Elf) being allowed to die like a mortal and pass beyond the bounds of the world was his edict as well (not to mention the Half-Elven all being given the right to choose their own fate, whether to be numbered among their elven kin or their mortal kin). It's more just that the Valar (who are sort of akin to angels) have no authority to withhold death from mortals, because death is meant to be Iluvatar's Gift to Men. It's only the corruption of Morgoth that turned it from something to be cherished into something to be feared.

It's also why the immortality of the Ring is such a cursed thing. It can't actually give more life, or make life eternal. It's just taking your allotted time and sort of stretching it out thinner and thinner over a longer and longer period of time. Which is why Bilbo makes the comment about feeling like butter spread across bread.

But yeah, the candleflame is diminished when placed next to the light of the sun. Mortals would generally burn out faster in the Undying Lands. Unless Iluvatar decides otherwise.



Zikten posted...

And Sam never saw Frodo again

Technically speaking, that depends entirely on what Iluvatar wants. If Iluvatar wants them to meet again, they will. Same with Legolas - it would be entirely up to Iluvatar if Legolas would earn a place in whatever afterlife awaits mortal souls, or if Legolas just has to suck it up like all the other elves and just reincarnate again and again and again. Though if anything, the real reward for Legolas is that he's allowed to travel to Valinor at all. Because he's a Sindar (one of the elves who never made it to the Undying Lands), not one of the elves who looked upon the Light of the Trees. The fate of most of the Sindar (and Silvan, and Nandor, and Avari) was to slowly fade away and become nature spirits. It's generally only the Noldor and the Teleri who had already been to the Undying Lands (and their descendants like Elrond) who were allowed to return.

But it's definitely implied that there is some sort of afterlife beyond the bounds of the world, which is where mortal souls go upon death. So even if Sam never saw Frodo again in the physical world, they'd almost certainly be reunited again in the afterlife. Because they're going to the same place. And Iluvatar generally seems to be a pretty compassionate god in his own way (he's basically supposed to be an analogue for the God of Christianity as seen through the lens of Tolkien's Catholicism).

The ending is really only as unhappy as you want it to be. Because it's ambiguous enough to justify however you'd like to assume things go.

They should really change the name of that place

Maybe the Dying Faster Lands

I'd never had the impression that they were going to live forever, or even that Sam would go. How did the movies explain Valinor? Its been years since the last time I've seen the Lord of the rings movies in full, and I always bounced off the books due to Tolkien's overly descriptive prose. Mostly what I remember is Frodo leaving with the elves because of the trauma of being the ring-bearer and not being able to go back to a normal life.