Current Events > Are you swayed by these common "arguments" for having children?

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have you heard these before? "every single one of your huge number of ancestors never failed to have children" and that, maybe every living thing's only biological purpose is to pass on their parents genes. What do you think of those? mainly this is directed at those of you who don't plan on having children

I say that I am doing my part in not overpopulating the world

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What are with these having children posts? Who the fuck cares?

I have never heard those arguments before. More common I've heard is, "Who's going to take care of you when you're old?" and "It's such a joy and very rewarding to watch a person grow."

Edit: As a parent, if I didnt have kids it would be much easier to plan for a seniors home and as rewarding as it is, it is a lot of fucking work to raise kids.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

I have never heard those arguments before. More common I've heard is, "Who's going to take care of you when you're old?" and "It's such a joy and very rewarding to watch a person grow."

but what do you think personally about those 2 arguments?good ones?

KazGT6 posted...

but what do you think personally about those 2 arguments?good ones?

No they suck.

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why though?

KazGT6 posted...

why though?

Passing on good works is better than passing on genes.

Are you religious tc?

no, why? are you?

KazGT6 posted...

no, why? are you?

Cause I was gonna remind you that Jesus didn't have kids.

But since you aren't religious, do you truly ascribe to things needing a purpose?

Is this a @OdafeOweh alt account

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I don't find them to be remotely compelling arguments.

WingsOfGood posted...

Cause I was gonna remind you that Jesus didn't have kids.

But since you aren't religious, do you truly ascribe to things needing a purpose?

yeah, but priests and stuff aren't allowed to have children neither is the pope. So i'm not sure we're you're going with the religion argument.. When i said needing a purpose it was in no way religion based, just cause i used purpose. If you read the whole thing then it could be in line with evolution though

Oh I was arguing people don't need to have kids if they don't want them. Thought you trying to tell us to have kids.

no i don't believe it has a purpose. But if there was one if any it could be to pass on your genes, just like it has for billions of years and for all living creatures

WingsOfGood posted...

Oh I was arguing people don't need to have kids if they don't want them. Thought you trying to tell us to have kids.

oh, so you read it my post again, carefully? it doesn't tell people to have kids

KazGT6 posted...

no i don't believe it has a purpose. But if there was one if any it could be to pass on your genes, just like it has for billions of years and for all living creatures

If that was the case then the most purposeful life would be to impregnate as many people as possible. Would you agree or disagree with this?

And maybe the most ethical way to do this is just donate to a bank.

WingsOfGood posted...

If that was the case then the most purposeful life would be to impregnate as many people as possible. Would you agree or disagree with this?

And maybe the most ethical way to do this is just donate to a bank.

i mean , evolutionarily speaking, it could be couldn't it? I mean as it applies to all other life forms it might be. But evolution doesn't act on humans like other animals because humans have a society and other animals don't so natural selection doesn't apply as much to humans as other animals

KazGT6 posted...

i mean , evolutionarily speaking, it could be couldn't it? I mean as it applies to all other life forms it might be. But evolution doesn't act on humans like other animals because humans have a society and other animals don't so natural selection doesn't apply as much to humans as other animals

Animals that aren't humans have societies.

So what is your viewpoint? Humanist? Athiest? Agnostic?

Cause gonna be honest, what you just said is kinda what religion does by making man special.

i said that man is different cause they have a society so natural selection doesn't act as much on humans as other animals. i mean plant eating animals still have to forage for food, and meat eaters have to hunt or they'll starve. They can't go to a grocery store, so in a lot of ways it's much easier for humans.

KazGT6 posted...

"every single one of your huge number of ancestors never failed to have children"

There'd be a lot less korruption and fuckery going on in the world if we'd stop doing things just because our parents did them.

that, maybe every living thing's only biological purpose is to pass on their parents genes.

I never asked to be here. I don't owe biology shit.

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Six year old account. One and a third years of karma. Seems about right for this topic.

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KazGT6 posted...

i said that man is different cause they have a society so natural selection doesn't act as much on humans as other animals. i mean plant eating animals still have to forage for food, and meat eaters have to hunt or they'll starve. They can't go to a grocery store, so in a lot of ways it's much easier for humans.

Who puts the vegetables in the grocer? Just because you don't have to forage or farm doesn't mean someone else doesn't have to do it for you.

Similar with ants and bees.

KazGT6 posted...

why though?

Because I don't believe that "because our ancestors did it" is a good reason for anything. We are not our ancestors and each decision they made is their own just like every decision we make is our own.

And I also believe we as a species have evolved past relying on our baser instincts to make our decisions.

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Biological morality is something I grew out of as an angsty teen, and anyone still pushing that in adulthood is just not going to make it.

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No woman would want to have sex with me so why should I even try

I think anyone who doesn't want to have children definitely shouldn't

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KazGT6 posted...

"every single one of your huge number of ancestors never failed to have children"

Bullshit statement. No absolute way to confirm that as fact.

Not everyone in history has had kids. And that's not a modern phenomena.
Very likely not everyone left out of the history books managed to have kids either...

All we are living proof of today is that SOME of our ancestors bothered to procreate. And even a bunch of them will remain unremembered (unverified) because our great grandparents never met them and those ancestors were never jotted down in historical records.


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There's a number of factors that I could go into.

While we pass on the good stuff through our legacy and genetics and stuff, we pass along the bad stuff too. There's this concept of generational trauma - that what happens to a person to instill trauma in them permanently changes the brain, and it affects your generic makeup to the point that some of those changes are reflected in your children. Both of my parents were molested. I was bullied for 10+ years, and I've lived in really shitty conditions due to that and other stuff for a solid 20 years of my life - most of my life has been spent in various states of duress, and it's reflected in an aversion to being touched and not opening up to people. If generational trauma is real, then I want to be careful about passing along my genes until I'm able to get the sort of help I need to overcome my personal problems. Maybe some of that damage can be mitigated.

There's also the nurture aspect of trauma, in that my trauma will manifest in behaviours that are detrimental to my children and which burden them with my baggage. Another reason to seek vigorous therapy before I even consider having a kid.

There are other genetic markers I don't want to pass on. Both of my parents are problem drinkers. My pop on my mum's side has been drinking his entire life, and he's in his late 70's. My mum turned 50 this year, and she gets close to blackout drunk three nights a week - it's a pattern that's held since high school. I'm a problem drinker. I have no concept of moderation and I drink until I black out, because I can't stand the thought of getting sober again. I've inherited the genetic markers that make me more susceptible to alcohol, and it's contributed to my personal issues. Why would I want to pass that on to a new generation?

There's also the simple fact that at this stage in my life, I'm just not ready. Some of the previous factors can be eased with time, and by being mindful I might be a great dad and I might be able to raise a good kid. But the fact that these problems persist in my current life are a surefire indicator that I shouldn't be a parent yet.

Even if you disagree with my previous waffling on about genetics and legacy - can you tell I'm a Metal Gear Solid fan? - I think everyone can agree that if you know you're not ready to have kids, you shouldn't have kids. Maybe that'll change, maybe it won't. But the fact that you have the insight necessary to make that decision, independent of anyone else's thoughts about you and your parenting capabilities, goes a long way in deciding whether you should be a parent or not.

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You can be just as big if not more of an influence on future generations thru your actual actions, vs just reproducing. And there will always be kids regardless. People fuck and have them.

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