Current Events > Is FF7 Rebirth really a "flop"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

No. It's just not a success when you consider how much effort that put into even making the original remake and then moving on.

I'll be honest, I got remake, thought it was mediocre, and the only reason I have exposure to rebirth is because of my partner.

It's not a failure, there are still plenty of games that want rebirth's numbers.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

You're better off not arguing with the defenders about it. No one said they're not still great playing games, but considering it's the same title split up 3 ways across a decade basically, the fact that you have separate save data between each of them is incredibly stupid. People gave examples of games like .hack, mass effect, & many others that carried things over between games in the same series & it doesn't matter to people. Gamers take whatever they're given without complaint, even though based on Rebirth's numerous issues(performance being one of them despite being PS5 exclusive this time instead of PS4/5), people just don't care about the state of Square Enix's releases

ZechtAurion posted...

What's the worth of that money when the decision actively dilutes your main big IP. If they continue this Sony will eventually stop moneyhatting because guess what, no one will care about it anymore.

I'd buy the dilution argument if the games were coming out every year.

Every 4 years is hardly dilution. <_< Now obviously there are other FF titles that came out since the FF7 Remake project began.

However, there are well over 80 different Final Fantasy games between main games, spin-offs, one-offs, etc so it isn't even like it's diluting FF at large. The franchise is insanely large.

If you want real reasons why the games might not be doing as well? People are becoming more selective with where they spend their time and money. The fact that this is a known trilogy has definitely made some people simply wait or, as has happened in this topic, just not be interested. Add in exterior economic conditions and changes, and it isn't that surprising that the games may not be doing the gangbangers that SE would like or that you might expect.

idk if it's a flop but man is it a fucking chore to play

wackyteen posted...

However, there are well over 80 different Final Fantasy games between main games, spin-offs, one-offs, etc so it isn't even like it's diluting FF at large. The franchise is insanely large.

It has a rich history, but it's a dying series now. FF used to sell systems but since the PS360 generation with FFXIII, they've had flub after flub after flub. As a consequence, they've failed to capture the new generation of gamers, the ones who are growing up with Minecraft and Fortnite.

FFVII doing this poorly, even the first one's lack of stellar sales (Imagine if the next Zelda title sold 7M copies in 3 years, that's not good at all) is a reflection of this.

Sad_Face posted...

It has a rich history, but it's a dying series now. FF used to sell systems

Did it though?

It benefited, heavily, from being on the best selling consoles of the generation.

FF7 sold 'over 10 million' copies on a system that sold 100 million consoles. Which is impressive, not to downplay, but that isn't really 'system mover' per se. FFX, as a series, sold a little over 20 million copies between originals and remasters. Even if that was, say, 15 million for FFX1 on the PS2, that's still a 10% install base on the PS2.

Point being, I think FF, especially online/gamefaqs, has a mildly larger perception of presence than it would spread out across the world.

You are right in that the 'flubs' have hampered fan interest, but you could also just chalk it up to the fact that the gaming market is way larger and things that were impressive and could sell copies back in the 90s and 00s, just aren't anymore. FF7's cutscenes were impressive for the time. the sheer size of the world and story was also impressive given the time. Same for FFX.

But with the advent of the AAA market and every game having to 'innovate' and 'impress', its created a diluted market where nothing really stands out because everything is marketed as the next big thing.

ZechtAurion posted...

What's the worth of that money when the decision actively dilutes your main big IP. If they continue this Sony will eventually stop moneyhatting because guess what, no one will care about it anymore.

Sure. Im not interested in a big philosophical debate on the merits of multi platform vs exclusives. Im talking specifically about this case. If you want to pivot to a discussion on multi platform vs exclusives go for it but Im not interested in having that discussion at the moment.

wackyteen posted...

It benefited, heavily, from being on the best selling consoles of the generation.

FF7 sold 'over 10 million' copies on a system that sold 100 million consoles. Which is impressive, not to downplay, but that isn't really 'system mover' per se. FFX, as a series, sold a little over 20 million copies between originals and remasters. Even if that was, say, 15 million for FFX1 on the PS2, that's still a 10% install base on the PS2.

The games, being larger thanks to CDs over cartridges and Sony making the console as accessible as possible for 3rd parties while Nintendo intentionally wanted the N64 to be difficult to program is what drove 3rd parties to Sony. FFVII was a breakout performance for the FF series that launched it to legendary status in the West. Basically I'm saying the 3rd parties demonstrating the immense graphical jump from the previous generation sold the PS1, not the other way around.

The PS2 carried that momentum of strong 3rd party support but what made the PS2 reach astronomical numbers, that other consoles haven't been able to match despite the industry being much bigger (though the Switch is on track to match it), is that the PS2 doubled as an affordable DVD player.

FF was very much a well respected and popular (and profitable) franchise, which is why Sony has such a strong relationship with Square to the point of owning shares in Square and why it was a massive story when Square announced FFXIII to be multiplatform.

You are right in that the 'flubs' have hampered fan interest, but you could also just chalk it up to the fact that the gaming market is way larger and things that were impressive and could sell copies back in the 90s and 00s, just aren't anymore. FF7's cutscenes were impressive for the time. the sheer size of the world and story was also impressive given the time. Same for FFX.

Off the top of my head, the Mario series broke records despite being platformers, the simplest entry level genre, Zelda's sales are an order of magnitude bigger than prior generations, Pokemon, an RPG, somehow continues to pump out comparable sales each generation despite not keeping up with the development standards. Grand Theft Auto commands the industry,

I bring these up to say to put into perspective of FF's faltering. You could say I'm agreeing with you but I would say there's no conflicts with our statements not that I'm agreeing with you. Square has had troubled development from XIII on. XIII was not a good game, it's a corridor simulator with an uninteresting story. It took 30 hours for the world to open up and then it goes right back to corridor simulator mode. It wasn't fun. People wanted to see a sprawling lived RPG world and Square was blindsided by the scope of difficulty in transitioning to HD development. They never recovered with respect to the FF franchise.

Sony moneyhatting Final Fantasy may make Square money in the short term, but its slowly killing the Final Fantasy brand because less people have an opportunity to play it and it is slowly fading from the cultural zeitgeist.

Also, the 2 million sales number is just an estimate, but what you are supposed to do when a company has radio silence on how well their game is doing? Typically companies love to broadcast how successful their games are. Its not unreasonable to think this game isn't doing as well as Square thought it would do.

Was everyone here complaining about it being a three parter born after they announced this? Its been known since the beginning and been talked about ad nauseum. You're either playing stupid or are just dumb lol

I probably sold well, but not Squeenix Tier 'sold well'

Lukey_Bug posted...

Was everyone here complaining about it being a three parter born after they announced this? Its been known since the beginning and been talked about ad nauseum. You're either playing stupid or are just dumb lol

Its the same people complaining that its not turn based too

YellowSUV posted...

Sony moneyhatting Final Fantasy may make Square money in the short term, but its slowly killing the Final Fantasy brand because less people have an opportunity to play it and it is slowly fading from the cultural zeitgeist.

Also, the 2 million sales number is just an estimate, but what you are supposed to do when a company has radio silence on how well their game is doing? Typically companies love to broadcast how successful their games are. Its not unreasonable to think this game isn't doing as well as Square thought it would do.

Only thing anyone can do.....just relax and wait until square-enix is ready to talk about it. There is also been updates on whatever physical only numbers its doing in japan that implies its doing well. At least enough to be the number 1 selling game for march in japan.
https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1778268214520328273

Even with that though, its not enough and you have some people twisting this as a proof that its selling worse than final fantasy 16 in japan......major roadblock in that being no one is stopping to think that maybe in the time period between FF16's release and now that more japanese final fantasy fans have simply opted to buy a digital version since all famitsu does is count disc sales, lol.

YellowSUV posted...

Sony moneyhatting Final Fantasy may make Square money in the short term, but its slowly killing the Final Fantasy brand because less people have an opportunity to play it and it is slowly fading from the cultural zeitgeist.

Also, the 2 million sales number is just an estimate, but what you are supposed to do when a company has radio silence on how well their game is doing? Typically companies love to broadcast how successful their games are. Its not unreasonable to think this game isn't doing as well as Square thought it would do.

yeah man unlike those days of yore where the first 10 games being multi platform. Come on man. Final fantasy has never been multi platform outside of a small number of titles. It just feels that way now because decades on most of the earlier games have now been made multi platform but that wasnt the case at release date. Hell a lot of the games didnt even come out worldwide back then.

Its been a pretty stacked year so far is why I havent brought the game yet. Im in the middle of dragons dogma 2 now and wont be done with this for a while.

Mad-Dogg posted...

Only thing anyone can do.....just relax and wait until square-enix is ready to talk about it. There is also been updates on whatever physical only numbers its doing in japan that implies its doing well. At least enough to be the number 1 selling game for march in japan.

Look for the first week sales for Part 1 my dude.

notforremnant posted...

You're better off not arguing with the defenders about it. No one said they're not still great playing games, but considering it's the same title split up 3 ways across a decade basically, the fact that you have separate save data between each of them is incredibly stupid. People gave examples of games like .hack, mass effect, & many others that carried things over between games in the same series & it doesn't matter to people. Gamers take whatever they're given without complaint, even though based on Rebirth's numerous issues(performance being one of them despite being PS5 exclusive this time instead of PS4/5), people just don't care about the state of Square Enix's releases

This. Square has been dead to me since at least XIII released. The fact that they tried to split and sell us the remake in 3 parts is insane, if anything I'm glad it's not doing well. Maybe they'll think twice about not pulling this crap again.

Sad_Face posted...

Look for the first week sales for Part 1 my dude.

What is the point of trying to gauge rebirth's success based off remake's 1st week sales on the playstation 4, a console with a way larger install base at that point in time and changing trends where more and more gamers is going digital? Again, these are only physical sales that is being counted here. We all know damn well that every year more gamers is purchasing digital games compared to physical discs. Not only that, we also obviously know there is nowhere near that many PS5s out there and it very recently got to that point where sales is picking up since those that want one can actually get one now.

Sad_Face posted...

Look for the first week sales for Part 1 my dude.

To be fair, most of the sales in a month come from the first week of release. Still, it seems to be indeed tracking lower than 16. More digital sales could also a possible significant factor.

I think the problem is that FF is not a game that gen z seems to care much for? Though exclusivity on a console going through its midlife definitely doesnt help.

But Tifas boobs!

Those didnt save the game?

PowerMan5000000 posted...

But Tifas boobs!

Those didnt save the game?

Not when theyre artificially locked to a platform most people dont have. Ill get it for PC, but I still havent played Remake, so Im in no hurry and itll probably be cheaper by the time I get to it anyway.

PowerMan5000000 posted...

But Tifas boobs!

What about them? I'm cosplaying as Senran Kagura characters in Elden Ring and there's more to a girl than her breasts.

Mad-Dogg posted...

What is the point of trying to gauge rebirth's success based off remake's 1st week sales on the playstation 4, a console with a way larger install base at that point in time and changing trends where more and more gamers is going digital?

My post is a response to the tweet you posted framing FFVII as a modest success. And, mind you, that is a title that people have been clamoring to see a remake of for well over a decade. It's supposed to move consoles. And yet as of last Thursday, it has moved less than 320K physical copies while other majorly successful titles have strong physical sales in addition to their strong digital sales.

Sad_Face posted...

My post is a response to the tweet you posted framing FFVII as a modest success. And, mind you, that is a title that people have been clamoring to see a remake of for well over a decade. It's supposed to move consoles. And yet as of last Thursday, it has moved less than 320K physical copies while other majorly successful titles have strong physical sales in addition to their strong digital sales.

Me posting that tweet wasn't necessarily meant to say something like "see, look, its selling gangbusters!". More so showing that whatever is going on it isn't absolutely doom and gloom like some is trying to imply and thus everyone just needs to wait to see what square-enix post about it. For a game to be a consistent number 1 in their region when we all know the switch is the most dominate platform to game on over there and just counting disc sales when again we all know that digital purchasing is just increasing more and more each year means that while we don't know if the game is a smashing success, it also obviously isn't some total bomb. Its just.....existing, and we do know that at least when it comes to PSN sales rankings its been at the top or near the top of the lists for both the stand alone and the dual version with remake.

You also just said it yourself.....the majorly succesful titles you are posting about is already known to be successes because their digital sales numbers is out there. We know absolutely nothing about rebirth's digital sales so far other than "well, at least its been high on the PSN purchases list".

So this is all based on an ass pull of 2m sales despite no one actually knowing the figures. And people are using the fact actual figures arent released as a way to legitimalise this ass pull. The 2m figure is still only a guess regardless of if actual figures have been released or not. Arguing on the basis of a guess seems silly to me.

Haven't read through the whole topic, but I wouldn't call that a flop that it sold less than the first game. There's far less PS5's sold than PS4's, so they've got a smaller install base. It sounds like it's doing just fine. And this is coming from someone who doesn't really care for the remake trilogy.

Lukey_Bug posted...

Was everyone here complaining about it being a three parter born after they announced this? Its been known since the beginning and been talked about ad nauseum. You're either playing stupid or are just dumb lol

It's been known for a while, but not since the beginning. When the remake was first announced, they straight up admitted that they didn't know how many parts it was gonna be yet.

Lukey_Bug posted...

Was everyone here complaining about it being a three parter born after they announced this?

Yes.

Prestoff posted...

Wait for square to announce if it did well or not, it's really not on our job to actually know. But yes of course FF7 Rebirth is going to sell less than FF7Remake because Rebirth is a PS5 exclusive.

This. Rebirth is the better game by a long shot as well and a sequel to boot. People that didnt buy Remake are not going to buy Rebirth.

Mad-Dogg posted...

Only thing anyone can do.....just relax and wait until square-enix is ready to talk about it. There is also been updates on whatever physical only numbers its doing in japan that implies its doing well. At least enough to be the number 1 selling game for march in japan.
https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1778268214520328273

Even with that though, its not enough and you have some people twisting this as a proof that its selling worse than final fantasy 16 in japan......major roadblock in that being no one is stopping to think that maybe in the time period between FF16's release and now that more japanese final fantasy fans have simply opted to buy a digital version since all famitsu does is count disc sales, lol.

FF16 was released not even a year ago. I highly doubt the physical vs digital landscape has changed that quick to make up for the difference of 310,596 copies in over a month compared to 336,027 copies in a week.

SHRlKE posted...

yeah man unlike those days of yore where the first 10 games being multi platform. Come on man. Final fantasy has never been multi platform outside of a small number of titles. It just feels that way now because decades on most of the earlier games have now been made multi platform but that wasnt the case at release date. Hell a lot of the games didnt even come out worldwide back then.

Most of the popular exclusive Final Fantasy games were on the SNES, PS1, and PS2. These were all by far the most popular platforms at the time. They also were the platforms were almost all JRPG style games were on so the fan base likely had those consoles.

The PS5's user base is smaller than the Switch and PC and those 2 have a lot of JRPG fans on them.

lmao when you think about how bad this is
this is their golden calf that they're literally milking to its core. milking every single drop out of it, straining and destroying their best product
then it starts stumbling out of the gate. how is this a good look at all? they don't even focus on any other franchises, they milk the shit out of 7 and start turning it sour. what else do they have to rely on?

dumb shits could've made an actual remake of the entire game in a much more efficient and impactful way, yet they drag it out and milk the shit out of it because they think it'll bring in more money. sad shit.

This isn't necessarily a Square-specific problem, since games in general are becoming more expensive and time-consuming to make since everyone's trying to make the graphics look as realistic as possible and such, but...

...do you think this is going to affect how Square approaches the alleged FF9 remake they're cooking up? Like, go for a more stylized graphic/art style and not go for a big full-scope open world-type deal the 7R series went for. I feel like most people don't want 7R's style for 9 anyway, and I can't imagine a 9 remake making back its money either if they did.

Part 3 will sell even less than rebirth. Its part of the problem of splitting the game into multiple parts. They will progressively sell less copies.

solosnake posted...

Part 3 will sell even less than rebirth. Its part of the problem of splitting the game into multiple parts. They will progressively sell less copies.

Given the number of people waiting for all 3 parts, and an increase in the PS5 user base I imagine part 3 will definitely outsell part 2

FF7 Remake games are probably my favorite JRPGs in the last 10 years, excluding Persona 5. So good - FF7 Remake is probably in my top 10 JPRGs.

Xerun posted...

Given the number of people waiting for all 3 parts, and an increase in the PS5 user base I imagine part 3 will definitely outsell part 2

sequels always sell less the farther into the series you get. People drop off, and it is harder to get new audience to jump into the middle and the commitment to catch up becomes a larger and larger barrier to entry. Its just common sense

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1779599911765336159