Current Events > Black GA voters sending message of Gaza to Biden not voting

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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:28:35 PM
#151:


LightningThief posted...
Aside from the usual bad faith actors in this topic (they know who they are), there are genuine left leaning posters here who definitely want to unironically see a trump presidency, and a worse fate for Palestine in this thread. Not understanding the "leverage" they think they have is actually nothing that actually helps the Palestinians given what their non vote means for the Palestinians.
I definitely do not want to see Trump get elected again, which is why I hope Biden takes meaningful action against Israel. It's vitally important that he does.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:30:30 PM
#152:


ModernPost posted...
I definitely do not want to see Trump get elected again, which is why I hope Biden takes meaningful action against Israel. It's vitally important that he does.

are you abstaining from voting for biden?

if so, you want a trump presidency

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NoMeLx22x
04/09/24 2:30:48 PM
#153:


legendary_zell posted...


It's been asked a million times and I've seen no response: what should these people who care about stopping a genocide do instead. They're not even saying they refuse to vote or vote for Biden, they're simply practicing politics by saying their votes are contingent. The same thing that millions of suburban voters, independents, moderates, and centrists do all the time. But when it's over a genocide, people reject literally every option that might even possibly have the required influence.

I'm forced to conclude that people simply want those who think a genocide is happening to swallow their tongues and vote Biden without fail. That often seems to be the answer people have towards the left, towards the young, towards anyone who doesn't see establishment Democrats as the epitome of politics done right. Just shut up and give us your support and be happy it isn't worse, don't advocate for anything different, don't make any arguments that make us uncomfortable, don't use anything other than approved tactics, don't do anything to rock the boat.

Brother, I'm telling you, you and the 5-6 other people in this topic that are trying to explain this logic will never make the others understand it. I've tried, I've seen you try, I've seen others try over the past couple months, and they will never fucking understand it.

It's sad actually.

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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:33:17 PM
#154:


Yazarogi posted...
are you abstaining from voting for biden?

if so, you want a trump presidency
Does Biden want a Trump presidency? Because if the answer is no, he ought to take the necessary actions to get elected. Sometimes that means doing things to win over potential voters.

What I am describing to you is politics.

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The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth, it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true. Ecclesiastes
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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:33:51 PM
#155:


Nah, we arent sad. We just get how politics work.

Hold onto your "hope" that the world works differently.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:34:33 PM
#156:


Nah, anyone who refuses to vote for biden is the reason Palestine would be even worse off. You only have yourselves to blame.

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pikakaeru
04/09/24 2:35:12 PM
#157:


meltdown mode: ACTIVATED

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Sandalorn
04/09/24 2:35:22 PM
#158:


It's truly going to be 2016 all over again. Never learn I suppose.
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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:37:34 PM
#159:


Abstainers really don't have empathy for the future suffering of others. They are emotionally unstable, and egotistical.

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pikakaeru
04/09/24 2:38:34 PM
#160:


Yazarogi posted...
Abstainers really don't have empathy for the future suffering of others. They are emotionally unstable, and egotistical.
here's the trick: all they have to do is make people believe they will abstain

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legendary_zell
04/09/24 2:38:52 PM
#161:


I think some of you have been so scarred by the evil of the Republican Party, fascism and Trumpism that you've fundamentally given up on the idea of practicing politics in the deepest sense. You see simply pulling the lever for whatever Democrat that's served up to you as the entirety of possible resistance and you dump all the energy that would have been used to strike, protest, boycott etc into enforcing orthodoxy with the Democratic line because you think they're the only thing standing between us and fascism.

And there's a lot of truth to that way of seeing things. But it insidiously lets the Republican Party and the forces that led to Trump win because it forfeits so much of the power and influence you could have had. It forfeits the possibility of a better world, all impetus for the Democratic Party to improve, it boils democracy down exclusively to voting for the lesser evil and removes any incentive for that lesser evil to be...less evil. We have to find a better way than that or it'll be our doom.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:39:11 PM
#162:


pikakaeru posted...
here's the trick: all they have to do is make people believe they will abstain

IF they are just taking the piss, that's one thing. But don't pretend like you're better than anyone for abstaining when you know the end result.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:39:48 PM
#163:


Zell, you're wrong.

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pikakaeru
04/09/24 2:40:03 PM
#164:


Yazarogi posted...
IF they are just taking the piss, that's one thing. But don't pretend like you're better than anyone for abstaining when you know the end result.
you dont know their intentions

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NoMeLx22x
04/09/24 2:40:16 PM
#165:


Yazarogi posted...
Nah, anyone who refuses to vote for biden is the reason Palestine would be even worse off. You only have yourselves to blame.

It's crazy that you would be willing to blame anyone else other than:

The country enacting a genocide
The country and administration that is helping to fund the country that is enacting a genocide

Instead, you'll blame people that are threatening (which means they are just trying to use their vote as leverage) to withhold there vote in hope to stop the people from enacting a genocide.

Insane logic, you really sound like someone that understands politics.

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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:40:19 PM
#166:


Yazarogi posted...
Nah, anyone who refuses to vote for biden is the reason Palestine would be even worse off. You only have yourselves to blame.
This doesn't make any sense. How much blame do people get if they helped elect someone with the power to do something for Palestine but chooses not to? They deserve at least as much of the blame, if not more, right?

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The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth, it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true. Ecclesiastes
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pikakaeru
04/09/24 2:40:22 PM
#167:


Yazarogi posted...
Zell, you're wrong.
I think hes right honestly

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:40:30 PM
#168:


Why the fuck are you still here?

Genuinely curious?

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lolife67
04/09/24 2:40:51 PM
#169:


legendary_zell posted...
I think some of you have been so scarred by the evil of the Republican Party, fascism and Trumpism that you've fundamentally given up on the idea of practicing politics in the deepest sense. You see simply pulling the lever for whatever Democrat that's served up to you as the entirety of possible resistance and you dump all the energy that would have been used to strike, protest, boycott etc into enforcing orthodoxy with the Democratic line because you think they're the only thing standing between us and fascism.

And there's a lot of truth to that way of seeing things. But it insidiously lets the Republican Party and the forces that led to Trump win because it forfeits so much of the power and influence you could have had. It forfeits the possibility of a better world, all impetus for the Democratic Party to improve, it boils democracy down exclusively to voting for the lesser evil and removes any incentive for that lesser evil to be...less evil. We have to find a better way than that or it'll be our doom.
Exactly.
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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:41:09 PM
#170:


It doesn't make much sense that Donald Trump is worse for Palestine? How do you come to the conclusion that he isn't?

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bluezero
04/09/24 2:41:25 PM
#171:


legendary_zell posted...
We have to find a better way than that or it'll be our doom.
How does that happen to an entire voting populace in 7 months?

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pikakaeru
04/09/24 2:41:40 PM
#172:


we know he's worse. thats how leverage works though

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SaikyoStyle
04/09/24 2:42:19 PM
#173:


WingsOfGood posted...
sure but they wouldn't be trying to get Trump elected
Neolibs have never been very good at thinking past next quarter.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:42:26 PM
#174:


Holy fuck.

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Trumble
04/09/24 2:43:40 PM
#175:


CommonStar posted...
Yep and if these people, that continually condescend these voters, actually cared, they would join in pressuring Biden to change course.
Multiple people acting like that have let their mask slip and exposed themself as pro-Israel, just for the record.

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MrMojoRising
04/09/24 2:45:37 PM
#176:


Lots of people ITT really mad at how Democracy works. You know you still have to have the popular support of the people right? Supporting a genocide is gonna put a damper on that. People who are mad at these voters should be infinitely more mad at Biden for his actions over the last 6 months.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:45:55 PM
#177:


I've been critical of Israel for years. I just understand how politics works, despite what any of these people want to lie to themselves are saying about leverage, or "how politics works"

I can also understand that Trump is worse for everyone, anyone who decides not to vote for Biden over his Israel policy, needs to understand they'd rather it be worse both for Palestine, and people at home.

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Holy_Cloud105
04/09/24 2:46:24 PM
#178:


TroutPaste posted...
Yes there will. He's not that powerful, he just hides behind lawyers . He doesn't have any friends in the Pentagon, intelligence agencies, our allies G7/NATO

He's not a King, he's a big fat baby
The Heritage Foundation which backs every single Republican official has outright said they will be aiming to get rid of elections once Trump wins. Or are you one of those people who went around saying "They're just saying they'll get rid of Roe v Wade but never actually do it"?

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SaikyoStyle
04/09/24 2:47:05 PM
#179:


How does Biden losing help Palestine?

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Tanthalas
04/09/24 2:47:14 PM
#180:


legendary_zell posted...
I think some of you have been so scarred by the evil of the Republican Party, fascism and Trumpism that you've fundamentally given up on the idea of practicing politics in the deepest sense. You see simply pulling the lever for whatever Democrat that's served up to you as the entirety of possible resistance and you dump all the energy that would have been used to strike, protest, boycott etc into enforcing orthodoxy with the Democratic line because you think they're the only thing standing between us and fascism.

And there's a lot of truth to that way of seeing things. But it insidiously lets the Republican Party and the forces that led to Trump win because it forfeits so much of the power and influence you could have had. It forfeits the possibility of a better world, all impetus for the Democratic Party to improve, it boils democracy down exclusively to voting for the lesser evil and removes any incentive for that lesser evil to be...less evil. We have to find a better way than that or it'll be our doom.
Vote uncommitted in the primaries all you want to pressure Biden, but come November do the sane thing and vote for him.

You don't get anything by shooting yourselves in the foot.

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Shadow_Don
04/09/24 2:48:15 PM
#181:


legendary_zell posted...
Will you answer the question? What should they do?

Protest

Why are you deflecting to hypothetical other people when the people this topic are about are explicitly disclaiming that intent or message?

They arent merely a hypothetical and I dont think its a huge deflection to bring them up in a topic about Gaza and Biden in the upcoming election.

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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:49:18 PM
#182:


SaikyoStyle posted...
How does Biden losing help Palestine?
If Biden holding office was any help to Palestine we wouldn't be in this predicament, would we?

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The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth, it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true. Ecclesiastes
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name_unknown
04/09/24 2:49:29 PM
#183:


LightningThief posted...
The new CEO or lead wants CNN to be nicer to Trump supporters. Or at least he did a year or 2 ago. I haven't kept up with it.

https://apnews.com/article/chris-licht-leaves-cnn-8d6d400e1346eb1f67bb67870dea6664
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/07/1180686988/cnn-chris-licht-out

After the failure of the Trump town hall CNN's head was fired but WB head Zaslav still wants to chase fox viewers.
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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:49:42 PM
#184:


ModernPost posted...
If Biden holding office was any help to Palestine we wouldn't be in this predicament, would we?

This is a false argument.

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pikakaeru
04/09/24 2:49:48 PM
#185:


wake up, sleepy joe!

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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:50:02 PM
#186:


Shadow_Don posted...
Protest
Probably the funniest thing you could have possibly responded with.

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The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth, it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true. Ecclesiastes
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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:50:26 PM
#187:


Yazarogi posted...
This is a false argument.
Is that as far as you can go or would you like to elaborate?

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The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth, it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true. Ecclesiastes
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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:50:27 PM
#188:


ModernPost posted...
Probably the funniest thing you could have possibly responded with.

Better then anything you've come up with.

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Shadow_Don
04/09/24 2:50:36 PM
#189:


legendary_zell posted...
You see simply pulling the lever for whatever Democrat that's served up

won the primary*

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:51:23 PM
#190:


ModernPost posted...
Is that as far as you can go or would you like to elaborate?

Sure, it's a false argument because none of us knew how he would handle the situation until it occurred. We don't have how Trump would handle that same situation, except... we kind of do when he decided to move the embassy further into Israel after years of a much more neutral stance.

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Shadow_Don
04/09/24 2:51:30 PM
#191:


ModernPost posted...
Probably the funniest thing you could have possibly responded with.

Letting a fascist win is more a mass suicide than a protest

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Holy_Cloud105
04/09/24 2:52:46 PM
#192:


Yazarogi posted...
Sure, it's a false argument because none of us knew how he would handle the situation until it occurred. We don't have how Trump would handle that same situation, except... we kind of do when he decided to move the embassy further into Israel after years of a much more neutral stance.
How about the fact Trump outright said he wants Israel to finish the job. We know exactly how Trump would have handled that.

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ModernPost
04/09/24 2:53:17 PM
#193:


Yazarogi posted...
Better then anything you've come up with.
The people declaring that they will withhold their vote if Biden does not take action ARE protesting. That is LITERALLY what a protest is.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:53:21 PM
#194:


Holy_Cloud105 posted...
How about the fact Trump outright said he wants Israel to finish the job. We know exactly how Trump would have handled that.

Yea, that too. I'm on your side here.

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Yazarogi
04/09/24 2:53:49 PM
#195:


ModernPost posted...
The people declaring that they will withhold their vote if Biden does not take action ARE protesting. That is LITERALLY what a protest is.

By all means, protest to the sound of your own diminished progress.

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SaikyoStyle
04/09/24 2:54:20 PM
#196:


ModernPost posted...
If Biden holding office was any help to Palestine we wouldn't be in this predicament, would we?
Of course you couldnt answer the question. Because you know youre wrong.

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Tanthalas
04/09/24 2:54:31 PM
#197:


ModernPost posted...
If Biden holding office was any help to Palestine we wouldn't be in this predicament, would we?
This is a dishonest claim.

If we had Trump as president right now, there's a very big chance that not only Palestine, but several other countries would be a lot worse off.

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NoMeLx22x
04/09/24 2:55:17 PM
#198:


Yazarogi posted...
Sure, it's a false argument because none of us knew how he would handle the situation until it occurred.

For someone that pretends to know about politics on the internet you sure as fuck know nothing about our president.

He's been a vocal supporter of Israel and Zionism for decades. This is not something hes ever been shy about, and is certainly not new information.

Anyone with a functioning brain knew how his policy on Israel would be if it ever came down to it.

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SHRlKE
04/09/24 2:55:26 PM
#199:


So does this actually have a chance of hurting Bidens election campaign or is it click bait being boosted by Republicans?

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Holy_Cloud105
04/09/24 2:55:38 PM
#200:


Tanthalas posted...
This is a dishonest claim.

If we had Trump as president right now, there's a very big chance that not only Palestine, but several other countries would be a lot worse off.
Literally this. He said he would tell Israel to finish the job. Said he would have assisted Russia with invading Ukraine AND said he would let Putin roll into NATO territories to take them over.

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