Current Events > If Biden loses the election, he has nobody to blame but himself

(+) Yeah! (+)

Trumble posted...

I can understand people gritting their teeth and voting him, after some of the responses in the last topic.

But this continued crying that anyone not on board is a secret Trump supporter is downright pathetic. It's completely reasonable to not want to give your vote to a genocidal piece of shit; and that remains true even if the other option is a bigger genocidal piece of shit. Even more so again if there's a chance that knowing it'll cost him votes might cause the former piece of shit to improve.

And those who outright deny or downplay the genocide are extremely sus.

And if he doesn't? Congratulations. You played yourself.
Well, you haven't, because you have no skin in the game.

Cemith posted...

Not voting is, by definition, inaction.

So is a worker's strike. And yet, I think we'd all agree it gets more results than many forms of active action do.

PowerMan5000000 posted...

Would he blame it on Russia or something? X/Twitter?

if he loses a bunch of democrats are going to spend a couple news cycles blaming the left/activists for palestine and the democrats will drift even further right.

MrMojoRising posted...

Never been. Just not weak enough to let the Democratic party fearmonger me into voting for them.

Do you remember when they fearmongered that Repubs wanted to overturn Roe vs Wade? Do you remember when it was proven that it was not fearmongering?
That's the postion I am in. You can tell me the Repubs are only saying that they will come after the LGBT community but won't really do it all you like. I will not take the chance.

mystic_belmont posted...

So you are okay with losing your rights?

They're literally getting taken away regardless of whether Biden or Trump is in office. Biden does not utilize the leverage that he has to fight for me, he only uses it to help bomb kids. He doesn't support expanding the court. He doesn't support medicare for all. He won't save me or this country from anything.

Trumble posted...

But this continued crying that anyone not on board is a secret Trump supporter is downright pathetic.

Well yea its pretty sus when people ask you directly what alternative to biden and trump are on the ballot and you literally don't know what 3rd party candidates are even running

Like hmmm... maybe this clown has a different agenda here?

To answer the allegedly unanswerable question: We should viciously and accurately criticize Biden for his actions, inactions, obstruction, and provision of cover for Israel. Some of you are claiming that you're fine with criticism and protest and are only opposing non-voters, but many of you have said criticism is inherently dangerous and can only have the effect of helping Trump.

We should mass protest, strike, boycott, do sit in, picket outside every rep and Senator's house, outside the Whitehouse, outside his personal house, outside his favorite restaurant and tailor, we should do the same at every defense contractor and government building sending bombs.

If we actually did all that and all that doesn't work, I'd feel very differently about Biden and the nature of our democracy. I think it would work if we actually did it. I don't think it's going to happen.

For the most likely scenario which is continued protest at around the current level, I think the best response is to try to escalate, to hope it works, and if not, weigh the pros and cons of support. Practically, I think that means voting for Biden if you're in a swing state. Especially for people who weren't willing to take the steps I outlined above, then you at least have the responsibility to mitigate domestic damage.

But I'm not going to begrudge anyone who genuinely has genocide as a hard stop and did something to try to change things. Or any Palestinian friends.

havean776 posted...

Do you remember when they fearmongered that Repubs wanted to overturn Roe vs Wade? Do you remember when it was proven that it was not fearmongering?
That's the postion I am in. You can tell me the Repubs are only saying that they will come after the LGBT community but won't really do it all you like. I will not take the chance.

Republicans will ban abortion nationwide. Get a new head of the FDA to rule abortion pills are bad, and a new head of the DOJ to enforce the Comstuck act.

Shadow_Don posted...

Well yea its pretty sus when people ask you directly what alternative to biden and trump are on the ballot and you literally don't know what 3rd party candidates are even running

Like hmmm... maybe this clown has a different agenda here?

And as I've repeatedly explained, recognizing that genocide is bad does not have a prerequisite of naming someone who doesn't support it.

MrMojoRising posted...

They're literally getting taken away regardless of whether Biden or Trump is in office.

There it is again lmfao

Dude is 100% an accelerationist

So many people here forget 2016 and want to take a gamble again. Or are just accellerationists. Big yikes.

-ZIO- posted...

You're going to have to convince the palestinian americans and other muslim citizens to vote for Biden. That's who you should talk to. The ones who's lost family members thanks to Biden choosing to supply Israel with bombs while being "deeply and sternly concerned" about it all.

I live by a large orthodox population. They have signs up on my way to the office about people still kidnapped. What about them? They are a voting population too, you know.

Xenogears15 posted...

So many people here forget 2016 and want to take a gamble again. Or are just accellerationists. Big yikes.

Yep. "Meh I won't vote!" and we lost a bunch of rights. It's disgusting. Lesson fucking learned.

Xenogears15 posted...

So many people here forget 2016 and want to take a gamble again. Or are just accellerationists. Big yikes.

Short memories is a problem. Or they just don't care about anyone that will suffer under Repub rule so they see those people as expendable.

MrMojoRising posted...

They're literally getting taken away regardless of whether Biden or Trump is in office. Biden does not utilize the leverage that he has to fight for me, he only uses it to help bomb kids. He doesn't support expanding the court. He doesn't support medicare for all. He won't save me or this country from anything.

This post just makes you look like a really shitty person. Accelerationism is an awful ideology.

Xenogears15 posted...

So many people here forget 2016 and want to take a gamble again. Or are just accellerationists. Big yikes.

Or the objective failure of a response to a global pandemic where we had an extremely disproportionate death rate compared to most countries

Trumble posted...

And as I've repeatedly explained, recognizing that genocide is bad does not have a prerequisite of naming someone who doesn't support it.

Anyone who cared enough to stop said genocide would be able to name a candidate opposed to it

Especially if they advocate for voting 3rd party as a way of stopping it.

"I support anyone who pushes Medicare for all"
"Ok which candidate supports that"
"Uhhhh idk lol" *shrug*

Trumble posted...

And as I've repeatedly explained, recognizing that genocide is bad does not have a prerequisite of naming someone who doesn't support it.

And as we said before, it certainly highlights that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

havean776 posted...

[irrelevant quotes]

Yeah, me throwing your disingenuous argument right back at you doesn't show what you think it shows. It only shows that you missed the point completely and that you have a reading comprehension problem.

Out of curiosity, what happens if Biden turns around and does all this stuff people want him to do/not do regarding Israel, and then loses the election?

Xenogears15 posted...

So many people here forget 2016 and want to take a gamble again. Or are just accellerationists. Big yikes.

clinton lost that election by running a bad campaign, no gamble was taken. voter turnout was not down

Honestly, Palestine could be a key issue in Michigan.
A swing state with a heavy a Palestinian population, they could am definitely affect numbers.

Basically Biden is in between losing Jewish and Palestinian votes. Whether those alone will determine the election, I dont know. Any time the turnout is lowered, itll make Trump do better.

Will_VIIII posted...

This is hyperbole. Do I think Biden could do better here? Absolutely. But he's not actively committing genocide.

And for like the nth time, what are we supposed to do then, let Trump win? The guy and party that would indiscriminately carpet bomb the area?

You don't have to deny genocide or Biden's role in facilitating/prolonging it to push the harm reduction vote.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

I live by a large orthodox population. They have signs up on my way to the office about people still kidnapped. What about them?

Israel has probably killed them all by this point anyway, either directly through bombs and bullets or indirectly through their engineered famine.

MarcyWarcy posted...

clinton lost that election by running a bad campaign, no gamble was taken. voter turnout was not down

The people wanted Clinton though. Electoral college didn't help.

havean776 posted...

Do you remember when they fearmongered that Repubs wanted to overturn Roe vs Wade? Do you remember when it was proven that it was not fearmongering?
That's the postion I am in. You can tell me the Repubs are only saying that they will come after the LGBT community but won't really do it all you like. I will not take the chance.

Do you remember when democrats had the opportunity to do something about it but didn't?
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN29466420/

I remember. Thanks to me having the amazing ability of a memory span longer than that of a goldfish, I can recognize the pattern of democrats talking the talk but almost always failing to walk the walk.

Xenogears15 posted...

So many people here forget 2016 and want to take a gamble again. Or are just accellerationists. Big yikes.

2016 happened because of the terrible vs terrible dynamic. Leftists and centrists are both repeating the same mistakes, not just leftists.

-ZIO- posted...

You're going to have to convince the palestinian americans and other muslim citizens to vote for Biden. That's who you should talk to. The ones who's lost family members thanks to Biden choosing to supply Israel with bombs while being "deeply and sternly concerned" about it all.

Trump hating them and wanting to deport them does nothing for them?

Trumble posted...

So is a worker's strike. And yet, I think we'd all agree it gets more results than many forms of active action do.

No. A strike is choosing not to work in favor of protesting, picketing, and actual activism.

Your abstaining method is sitting your ass at home and doing nothing.

Also, you're not even American. Please bugger off about our politics lol. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

1337toothbrush posted...

Do you remember when democrats had the opportunity to do something about it but didn't?
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN29466420/

I remember. Thanks to me having the amazing ability of a memory span longer than that of a goldfish, I can recognize the pattern of democrats talking the talk but almost always failing to walk the walk.

Obama never had the supermajority to codify it into law anyway.

Will_VIIII posted...

The people wanted Clinton though. Electoral college didn't help.

That has nothing to do with people "taking a gamble" with their votes

1337toothbrush posted...

Yeah, me throwing your disingenuous argument right back at you doesn't show what you think it shows. It only shows that you missed the point completely and that you have a reading comprehension problem.

Sp are you saying I should sacrafice my friends for your moral victory or not?

WingsOfGood posted...

Trump hating them and wanting to deport them does nothing for them?

This is such a gross thing to say to people who've lost their family members.

Trumble posted...

And as I've repeatedly explained, recognizing that genocide is bad does not have a prerequisite of naming someone who doesn't support it.

Like arguing with a fucking parrot.
"GENOCIDE!"
"Okay, yes, but staying home instead of voting won't do anything to prevent that, in fact, it'll not only likely accelerate, but also, enable other different genocides"
"AWK! GENOCIDE!"
"...yes, nobody is arguing with that, but what you have to understand is that the consequences of not voting will lead to an objectively worse situation not only in Gaza but-"
"AWK! *whistle* GENOCIDE! POLLY WANT INTERNET CLOUT!"

havean776 posted...

Sp are you saying I should sacrafice my friends for your moral victory or not?

No, I'm saying that you keep dragging out this strawman and it's akin to claiming that you must not care about genocide, except in this case you might actually not care about genocide because you keep trying to change the subject.

Cemith posted...

No. A strike is choosing not to work in favor of protesting, picketing, and actual activism.

Your abstaining method is sitting your ass at home and doing nothing.

Also, you're not even American. Please bugger off about our politics lol. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

When your country keeps your politics to itself instead of influencing the rest of the world, you can tell us to stay out of it. Until then, we have every right to debate and attempt to influence it.

1337toothbrush posted...

No, I'm saying that you keep dragging out this strawman and it's akin to claiming that you must not care about genocide, except in this case you might actually not care about genocide because you keep trying to change the subject.

So you are saying it's okay for me to vote to protect my friends and you have been getting angry and claiming I support genocide for no reason at all?

Trumble posted...

When your country keeps your politics to itself instead of influencing the rest of the world, you can tell us to stay out of it. Until then, we have every right to debate and attempt to influence it.

You talk like you actually have a chance at influencing it, though. C'mon now.

1337toothbrush posted...

No, I'm saying that you keep dragging out this strawman and it's akin to claiming that you must not care about genocide, except in this case you might actually not care about genocide because you keep trying to change the subject.

I think it's well established at this point that the die-hard Biden supporters do not care about genocide (and possibly even support it) as long as they're not personally the target. Not a single person has been able to justify allowing Biden to continue his actions on this without protest, yet they keep acting like they have a point.

Trumble posted...

When your country keeps your politics to itself instead of influencing the rest of the world, you can tell us to stay out of it. Until then, we have every right to debate and attempt to influence it.

Okay, so state plainly what voters should do in November then.

MrMojoRising posted...

This is such a gross thing to say to people who've lost their family members.

To remind them Trump will deport them and travel ban them is gross? No it is reality.
Trump is a bigot and proved it with actual policy.

*chrom voice* i vote for my friends

Trumble posted...

I think it's well established at this point that the die-hard Biden supporters do not care about genocide (and possibly even support it) as long as they're not personally the target.

You have not given a way to stop the genocide and oppose the only man who is calling for a ceasefire.

havean776 posted...

So you are saying it's okay for me to vote to protect my friends and you have been getting angry and claiming I support genocide for no reason at all?

I didn't say anything about your vote. Are you done trying to change the subject from genocide which you seem to really love doing for some reason?

Will_VIIII posted...

Okay, so state plainly what voters should do in November then.

Touch some healing crystals and read more marxist theory

havean776 posted...

You have not given a way to stop the genocide and oppose the only man who is calling for a ceasefire.

He is claiming to want a ceasefire in public, while facilitating Israel's actions in private and blocking efforts to actually enact a ceasefire.

No, Biden is not genuinely calling for a ceasefire.

I've suggested withholding votes unless/until he changes his stance and takes some actual action. Which there is plenty of time before November for him to do.

WingsOfGood posted...

To remind them Trump will deport them and travel ban them is gross? No it is reality.
Trump is a bigot and proved it with actual policy.

Yeah it's very insulting, and I've seen lots of (white) people get checked on it when they go to Michigan and say stuff like this. The genocide enabled by Biden has killed more Arabs and Muslims than Trump has ever banned or possibly could ever ban.

1337toothbrush posted...

I didn't say anything about your vote. Are you done trying to change the subject from genocide which you seem to really love doing for some reason?

Pardon me but you are the one who kept bringing it up. The point I made was that I want to protect my friends. OIther such as yourself may see tham as asacrafice but I do not.
You where the one who had a problem with that and kept screaming genocide.

Your job as a voter is to vote the best choice among the two parties.

If you don't like either choice, you should have, as a voter, walked into the voting booth during the primaries and voted for who you want.

Complaining about a candidate, while not doing anything to push forward your preferred one, is very lazy.

Expecting the candidate of your choice to be on board with 100% is childish.

Do I wish Biden did more about Gaza and Israel? Absolutely.

Is Trump so much worse? Absolutely. He has stated he's going to be a dictator, he has project 2025 backing him up.

Trumble posted...

He is claiming to want a ceasefire in public, while facilitating Israel's actions in private and blocking efforts to actually enact a ceasefire.

No, Biden is not genuinely calling for a ceasefire.

I've suggested withholding votes unless/until he changes his stance and takes some actual action. Which there is plenty of time before November for him to do.

And if he does not change his stance what than?

MrMojoRising posted...

more Arabs and Muslims than Trump has ever banned or possibly could ever ban.

Again downplaying trump.

Very strange.