Current Events > If Biden loses the election, he has nobody to blame but himself

(+) Yeah! (+)

Zero_Destroyer posted...

I think the point being made boils down to "I refuse to accept the notion of moderate genocide versus worse genocide so I will no longer participate in the political process because it is not an effective way or changing things if we get genocide either way"

This is what I've gathered from talking to people who talk about abstaining from voting but even that requires the context of it depending on which state and which district and if abstention from the Presidency means abstention from other races.

I don't really identify with it because I think Trump would be magnitudes worse and would assure a kleptocracy for the next few decades. Texas is technically competitive now so I feel obligated to vote for Biden, but people have been warning Dems for nearly a year that Biden's numbers are specifically terrible in polling and the assured improvements haven't come.

Trump literally did a Muslim ban back in the day. He is exponentially worse.

legendary_zell posted...

I wish you'd tell my lifelong Democrat Palestinian friend posting desperate messages on Facebook every day about the family, friends, staff members etc that he's losing that it's technically not a genocide because reasons and that he's naive for wanting to pressure the guy currently sending the bombs that did all that.

Your friend has a right to pressure Biden.

And then in the next election he should vote on which candidate he believes will help Palestinians more.

I'm just not going to indulge people pretending that Biden is evil or that Trump is the better option.

1337toothbrush posted...

You say this while Palestinians are actively being genocided with full support from biden. Kindly shut the fuck up about privilege.

So you are saying that my friends losing their rights and maybe their lifes is a small price you are willing to pay to send a message?

Tanthalas posted...

I'm just not going to indulge people pretending that Biden is evil or that Trump is the better option.

Please, enlighten us. By what standards is providing weapons to a genocidal regime, knowing they will be used to facilitate genocide, not "evil"?

Again, the question was how is it not "evil"; not how is someone else worse.

Trumble posted...

Please, enlighten us. By what standards is providing weapons to a genocidal regime, knowing they will be used to facilitate genocide, not "evil"?

Again, the question was how is it not "evil"; not how is someone else worse.

Trump won't give Israel arms?

Don't play Trumble's games. He's baiting you to "look bad" for opposing Trump.

Trumble posted...

Please, enlighten us. By what standards is providing weapons to a genocidal regime, knowing they will be used to facilitate genocide, not "evil"?

Again, the question was how is it not "evil"; not how is someone else worse.

What are people's options to stop that evil? How do they do that?

WingsOfGood posted...

Trump literally did a Muslim ban back in the day. He is exponentially worse.

The point being made is that we're already off the cliff and the time for voting is in the rear view mirror. Like I said, I do not identify with this, but it is the point made for many people arguing this, either as an implication for diffusing oneself from politics in any fashion and accepting we are doomed or suggesting direct action i.e. general strikes.

I think that people who think this way adhere too much to accelerationism and assume a damaged populace lashing out would go well (it wouldn't) but it should not be surprising that if the Democratic Party has broadly refused to learn anything in the last 20 years that it is, at the very least, hopelessly pushing against a tsunami.

TheLiarParadox posted...

This is sad. You used to be a good person.

You really have to look at the big picture here.

Like how that woman who miscarried in Ohio had her bathroom ripped apart and she got charged for improper disposal of a corpse.

Same situation played out for me and my partner earlier this year and fortunately, we don't have laws like that here.

Project 2025 is a real threat to us as we're still trying to conceive.

Heineken14 posted...

What are people's options to stop that evil? How do they do that?

Why are you dodging the question?

WingsOfGood posted...

"Biden I dislike what you are doing with Israel so instead I will let Trump win who is worse than you on Israel and will ban Muslims and empower Nazis!"

strange message

You could make this argument about literally anything. Why improve anything ever since the other guy is worse? This is exactly why democrats love the "but the other guy" argument and this is why they fund fascists: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire

Heineken14 posted...

But it's not downplaying it. Shit in Palestine is turbo fucked and Biden is doing horrible with it and should do better. The problem is though... our hands are incredibly tied in what we can do

Actually there are many things biden can do. Hell, if biden did nothing it would be a vast improvement over the billions of dollars, weapons, military equipment, UN vetoes, etc that he is providing for israel that he doesn't have to.

Heineken14 posted...

You're still ignoring the question though. Biden or Trump will 100% be our next president. I want to vote for the betterment of America and also prevent bad shit around the world from happening as well if possible. Which option do I choose?

In my opinion, the betterment of America doesn't come from supporting a genocide. If you believe this is going to be the LAST election, sure, go vote for Biden. I don't think it's true, and if the Democrats lose because of Israel, then that should be the blow for them to change course. Will that happen, I don't know. But it has a better chance of happening than if I just choose to support them regardless. If you want things to change, you can't keep doing the same thing and rewarding the same type of policies.

mistymermaid posted...

Don't play Trumble's games. He's baiting you to "look bad" for opposing Trump.

But he's so knowledgeable about American polit-

I couldn't finish the sentence.

havean776 posted...

So you are saying that my friends losing their rights and maybe their lifes is a small price you are willing to pay to send a message?

So you're saying genocide is a small price to pay?

Heineken14 posted...

What are people's options to stop that evil? How do they do that?

The post you're quoting was specifically asking that user to justify their claim that Biden is not evil. Which they were unable to do; all they could do is point out that someone else was worse.

1337toothbrush posted...

So you're saying genocide is a small price to pay?

How does Trump being elected stop that?

1337toothbrush posted...

Actually there are many things biden can do. Hell, if biden did nothing it would be a vast improvement over the billions of dollars, weapons, military equipment, UN vetoes, etc that he is providing for israel that he doesn't have to.

Apologies, meant we as in voters. One of those things that made sense to me while I was typing it. Yeah, I agree there is a lot Biden can do.

Will_VIIII posted...

You really have to look at the big picture here.

Like how that woman who miscarried in Ohio had her bathroom ripped apart and she got charged for improper disposal of a corpse.

Same situation played out for me and my partner earlier this year and fortunately, we don't have laws like that here.

Project 2025 is a real threat to us as we're still trying to conceive.

I'm talking about your "actually it's only diet genocide" bullshit.

Heineken14 posted...

What are people's options to stop that evil? How do they do that?

The Capitol Steps Wizard, no doubt!
Of course in reality we will get a wizard if Biden loses. A grand one you might say.

1337toothbrush posted...

You could make this argument about literally anything. Why improve anything ever since the other guy is worse? This is exactly why democrats love the "but the other guy" argument and this is why they fund fascists: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/the-democrats-are-purposely-boosting-far-right-republicans-this-will-backfire

YOu are in a privliged postion where you can ignore the damage "the other guy" does. He is real, he can do huge damage and make laws that forever hurt my friends. You telling me to just ignore that is not an option for me.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Why are you dodging the question?

The question was asked in bad faith, and any answer given he'll spin for his orange overlord.

1337toothbrush posted...

So you're saying genocide is a small price to pay?

So you're saying women's rights are a small price to pay, as long as the democratic party maybe possibly learns a lesson (even though they won't.) I'm sure all those Democrats will be like "Man, we probably lost because of Israel, and certainly not because we didn't go further to the right and appeal to more centrists. We don't totally go more right to try to win more elections in the future or anything like that. Nope. We would never do that!"

MrMojoRising posted...

If you want things to change, you can't keep doing the same thing and rewarding the same type of policies.

If you want things to change, you can't also keep taking 5 steps back for every half step forward.

havean776 posted...

How does Trump being elected stop that?

How does criticizing biden and having him change his actions get trump elected? Reminder that biden's handling has disapproval from 75% of democrats: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

Heineken14 posted...

If you want things to change, you can't also keep taking 5 steps back for every half step forward.

Like what you would be doing if you support a genocidal candidate?

1337toothbrush posted...

How does criticizing biden and having him change his actions get trump elected? Reminder that biden's handling has disapproval from 75% of democrats: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

Nothing wrong with criticizing him. Just know that threatening to not vote does nothing to help anyone but Trump.

Heineken14 posted...

Explain to me what my options are here then. I get out my ballot that is mailed to me for presidential elections. What do I choose to have the best outcome not only for my country but for Palestinians as well?

It is maddening that abstainers keep ignoring this post.

I mean, I know why they are. Still annoying though.

TheLiarParadox posted...

I'm talking about your "actually it's only diet genocide" bullshit.

This is hyperbole. Do I think Biden could do better here? Absolutely. But he's not actively committing genocide.

And for like the nth time, what are we supposed to do then, let Trump win? The guy and party that would indiscriminately carpet bomb the area?

MrMojoRising posted...

Like what you would be doing if you support a genocidal candidate?

So you're fine with things not changing. Ok.

1337toothbrush posted...

So you're saying genocide is a small price to pay?

You should go to your doctor. Get that knee checked. It seems to be jerking a lot.

havean776 posted...

YOu are in a privliged postion where you can ignore the damage "the other guy" does. He is real, he can do huge damage and make laws that forever hurt my friends. You telling me to just ignore that is not an option for me.

Says the one taking the privileged position of ignoring genocide.

Kingfrost posted...

So you're saying women's rights are a small price to pay, as long as the democratic party maybe possibly learns a lesson (even though they won't.) I'm sure all those Democrats will be like "Man, we probably lost because of Israel, and certainly not because we didn't go further to the right and appeal to more centrists. We don't totally go more right to try to win more elections in the future or anything like that. Nope. We would never do that!"

So, again, you're saying genocide is a small price to pay since shutting down any and all criticism of biden is far more important.

"I think Biden should stop supporting a man made famine and genocide"

"What do you mean you want Trump to win?"

Y'all don't seem to get it.

MrMojoRising posted...

Like what you would be doing if you support a genocidal candidate?

You don't give a fuck about Palestine or Palestinians.

1337toothbrush posted...

So, again, you're saying genocide is a small price to pay since shutting down any and all criticism of biden is far more important.

You're saying women's rights are a small price to pay, as long as you can give Trump the win. I'm not sure you're arguing in good faith here.

1337toothbrush posted...

Says the one taking the privileged position of ignoring genocide.

I can't stop that but I can protect my friends something that seems to make you very angry for some reason.

DrizztLink posted...

You don't give a fuck about Palestine or Palestinians.

These topics are backfiring, all the both-sides-ism only increases my support for Palestine.

Heineken14 posted...

So you're fine with things not changing. Ok.

They need to change, that's why I can't vote for Joe Biden, lol. He's the antithesis of change. The fact that people are braving the possibility of another Trump term by withholding their vote should be seen as evidence of the betrayal by Joe Biden. The fact that it's seen as either childish idealism or helping conservatives just shows how truly damaged the party mentality is.

MrMojoRising posted...

They need to change, that's why I can't vote for Joe Biden, lol. He's the antithesis of change. The fact that people are braving the possibility of another Trump term by withholding their vote should be seen as evidence of the betrayal by Joe Biden. The fact that it's seen as either childish idealism or helping conservatives just shows how truly damaged the party mentality is.

Ok you're not fooling anyone here.

Cemith posted...

It is maddening that abstainers keep ignoring this post.

I mean, I know why they are. Still annoying though.

If they had a coherent and thought out strategy I'd be all ears

But its literally

1) don't vote for democrats
2) ???
3) Gaza is free

-ZIO- posted...

"I think Biden should stop supporting a man made famine and genocide"

"What do you mean you want Trump to win?"

Y'all don't seem to get it.

"I want to protect my friends from Trump"

"YOU MONSTER WHY DO YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE! YOU'RE WORSE THAN HITLER!"

Okay than I can see we are going to have a rational discussion.

havean776 posted...

Nothing wrong with criticizing him. Just know that threatening to not vote does nothing to help anyone but Trump.

He keeps saying that hes not allowed to criticize biden even though thats not the point being argued

He knows its about the people saying they wont vote

-ZIO- posted...

"I think Biden should stop supporting a man made famine and genocide"

"What do you mean you want Trump to win?"

Y'all don't seem to get it.

And you don't seem to understand that we can pressure Biden. It's worked before.

Trump will (and has outright stated his intention to) glass the entire region.

If you have a choice between "bad but with the possibility of improvement" and "glass the nation," things get pretty obvious in a hurry.

Unless you actually have a third candidate to propose, this is an either/or situation.

havean776 posted...

Nothing wrong with criticizing him. Just know that threatening to not vote does nothing to help anyone but Trump.

When have I ever threatened to not vote for biden or any democratic candidate? You're all making up strawmen to deflect from the real argument of "biden should stop supporting genocide" or as the opening post points out "biden should stop supporting genocide because it's hurting his poll numbers" since apparently biden only cares about poll numbers and doesn't give a shit about people's lives.

MrMojoRising posted...

They need to change, that's why I can't vote for Joe Biden, lol. He's the antithesis of change. The fact that people are braving the possibility of another Trump term by withholding their vote should be seen as evidence of the betrayal by Joe Biden. The fact that it's seen as either childish idealism or helping conservatives just shows how truly damaged the party mentality is.

Cool. That doesn't mesh with reality, but you do you I suppose.

-ZIO- posted...

"I think Biden should stop supporting a man made famine and genocide"

"What do you mean you want Trump to win?"

Y'all don't seem to get it.

I'm starting to believe these people outright support Israel's actions to be honest.

MrMojoRising posted...

They need to change, that's why I can't vote for Joe Biden, lol. He's the antithesis of change. The fact that people are braving the possibility of another Trump term by withholding their vote should be seen as evidence of the betrayal by Joe Biden. The fact that it's seen as either childish idealism or helping conservatives just shows how truly damaged the party mentality is.

Oh boy accelerationism. Thrilling.

DrizztLink posted...

And you don't seem to understand that we can pressure Biden. It's worked before.

Trump will (and has outright stated his intention to) glass the entire region.

If you have a choice between "bad but with the possibility of improvement" and "glass the nation," things get pretty obvious in a hurry.

Unless you actually have a third candidate to propose, this is an either/or situation.

And Biden has called for a cease fire

DrizztLink posted...

And you don't seem to understand that we can pressure Biden. It's worked before.

And what the fuck do you think people are trying to do by openly withholding votes for him?

Trumble posted...

I'm starting to believe these people outright support Israel's actions to be honest.

Considering your penchant for telling people what they do and don't believe, this doesn't shock me in the least.

-ZIO- posted...

"I think Biden should stop supporting a man made famine and genocide"

"What do you mean you want Trump to win?"

Y'all don't seem to get it.

"Abstaining from voting will lead to an outcome where Trump will win, which not only will not change the situation in Gaza but actively make it worse, in addition to, you know, all the other bad things that will happen."
"SO YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE?"
I can play this game too. All day!