Current Events > "I consciously add as much diversity as I can to my writing"

(+) Yeah! (+)

and I don't care if people think that's forced or fake. I'm happy to be an SJW and I hope to write many social justice games in the future that reach as many different types of people as possible. Everyone should get a chance to see themselves reflected in pop culture."

pretty chad quote right?

Depends on who said it and why.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Depends on who said it and why.

No it doesn't.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

No it doesn't.

It does, yes.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It does, yes.

How so?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Depends on who said it and why.

interesting

If a writer wants to do that, it's fine. Creative freedom, right?

And all of fiction is 'forced' by definition. It's not naturally occurring, it is writers using their skill with words to achieve the effects they intend. (Or not).

Not me, my main character is a straight white male who has a buzzcut hairdo and talks with a gravely voice

Crimsoness posted...

Not me, my main character is a straight white male who has a buzzcut hairdo and talks with a gravely voice

Did you remember to kill off their wife and kids?

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

No it doesn't.

What if it was said be a writer in China who added white dudes to diversify the cast of asians?

I agree with the principle but... I also can't deny there are some people who are REALLY bad at it. If they're poorly done, lazy stereotypes, then the author is better off not doing it (or at least doing fewer at a time and making sure they do it right).

Like for example I was just listening to Behind the Bastards talk about Hank Ketchem, the guy who did Dennis the Menace, and I learned that he tried adding a black character. The results definitely make me think he was better off not trying to add diversity.

In general though I support adding more diversity to all forms of entertainment though.

I mean those characters tend to suck tho.

Like that Baldurs Gate character who just blurts out their entire life story about being transgender and the details of their transition the moment you meet them for literally no reason.

Resident Evil 4 would not be improved if for no reason at all Hunnigan just went "Oh btw I'm gay." over the headset while a zombie was biting off Leon's foot.

Just write the characters you want to write and have ideas for. If they're diverse, that's great. If they're not, fine.

This absolutely can compromise the quality if hamfisted

Even Saving Private Ryan back in the day I thought seemed a little too evenly distributed with it's stereotypes, the Bronx Italian, the Jewish one, the religious hick etc

Bad writing is bad writing.

A character being gay, or black, or female, does not drain an author of their ability to portray characters.

Crimsoness posted...

Not me, my main character is a straight white male who has a buzzcut hairdo and talks with a gravely voice

i genuinely love these characters

UnfairRepresent posted...

Resident Evil 4 would not be improved if for no reason at all Hunnigan just went "Oh btw I'm gay." over the headset while a zombie was biting off Leon's foot.

are you so sure about that?

ai123 posted...

Bad writing is bad writing.

A character being gay, or black, or female, does not drain an author of their ability to portray characters.

This. Complaining about how diverse characters are written doesn't mean they shouldn't be included. Plenty of straight, white male characters are poorly written but nobody says to stop making straight, white male characters.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

damn its so obvious now that u said it, but this blew my mind

UnfairRepresent posted...

Like that Baldurs Gate character who just blurts out their entire life story about being transgender and the details of their transition the moment you meet them for literally no reason.

no they don't they tell you that after you keep pestering them about their past

They can be happy writing their forced diversity and I can be happy shittin on it online, tis simply the circle of life. The fact is if it weren't for writers like this what would we have left to shit on? God bless em

please do not respond to UnfairRepresent, or ill just block him if u guys cant help urselves. its been like 20 years, when will u learn

Diversity in fiction is a good thing and putting in an effort to make your work more diverse is good. Even better if you make the team behind the work more diverse.

lolife67 posted...

This. Complaining about how diverse characters are written doesn't mean they shouldn't be included. Plenty of straight, white male characters are poorly written but nobody says to stop making straight, white male characters.

People demand Shakespearean levels of characterization and plot integration for minorities while eagerly consuming every gruff, white, ex-special forces clich that gets thrown their way.

No one would be more thankful than me for a world where every character was superbly written, but in the meantime there is zero reason to set a higher bar for minority characters, or pretend that they are somehow special cases, beyond the competency of most authors.

What did we think of the diversity within the gang of RDR2?

Just using this as an example. As a history nerd I just couldn't wrap my head around a 19th century cowboy gang just "not seeing colour" like that and having a bunch of black guys in their gang. It didn't feel realistic.

Now does that overpower the need to give representation to various races because they don't feature enough generally in media? Probably not.

MEGAsoldier posted...

They can be happy writing their forced diversity and I can be happy shittin on it online, tis simply the circle of life. The fact is if it weren't for writers like this what would we have left to shit on? God bless em

Whose alt

ai123 posted...

People demand Shakespearean levels of characterization and plot integration for minorities while eagerly consuming every gruff, white, ex-special forces clich that gets thrown their way.

Correct. Minority and female characters always have to "prove" themselves in a way straight white (cis) men don't.

MEGAsoldier posted...

They can be happy writing their forced diversity and I can be happy shittin on it online, tis simply the circle of life. The fact is if it weren't for writers like this what would we have left to shit on? God bless em

If they are happy writing it, how is it 'forced'?

I'm writing a book and I have many LGBTQ+ characters despite the very scatological nature of the work.

Sometimes I wonder if it gets published people are going to think I'm a madwoman for what I have written.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

As a history nerd I just couldn't wrap my head around a 19th century cowboy gang just "not seeing colour" like that and having a bunch of black guys in their gang. It didn't feel realistic.

As a "history nerd" you really should know how common black cowboys were in the Old West

https://time.com/6111612/the-harder-they-fall-true-story/
https://owlcation.com/humanities/Black-Outlaws-Cowboys-And-Lawmen-Of-The-Old-West

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Just using this as an example. As a history nerd I just couldn't wrap my head around a 19th century cowboy gang just "not seeing colour" like that and having a bunch of black guys in their gang. It didn't feel realistic.

it's a fictional game realistic flew out of the window when your guy takes a buttload of bullets and respawns after he dies for the player

High fantasy should be the genre where diversity costs nothing. There are no inherent bases for tropes or stereotypes for bad writing. Every character can hypothetically exist naturally in the setting as a high fantasy world has no hang-ups of the real world.

Diversity is important, but a slop piece of media cant blame racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. when it flops. Conversely, diversity shouldnt be blamed when slop media flops. Bad media is bad media.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

Just using this as an example. As a history nerd I just couldn't wrap my head around a 19th century cowboy gang just "not seeing colour" like that and having a bunch of black guys in their gang. It didn't feel realistic.

???

marginalized groups banding together for safety in numbers and common experiences, and lashing out at the society that kicks and takes advantage of them

....

is unrealistic?

gikos posted...

no they don't they tell you that after you keep pestering them about their past

...

You literally say "Mizhena? That's an unusual name. I don't think I've heard it before."

To which they say:

"When I was born, my parents thought me a boy and raised me as such. In time, we all came to understand I was truly a woman. I created my new name from syllables of different languages. All have special meaning to me, it is the truest reflection of who I am."

And your literal only response is "Thank you for sharing your story with me."

It's bad writing in a series known for it's good writing, characters and dialogue choice. You know this, hence why you're lying about it.

"Let's just insert some diversity we don't actually care about/have ideas for" has this risk of being half baked.

Compare that dialogue to Bill from the Last of Us, a game not even known for it's writing and see the difference and obvious passion from the creators in the latter.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's not true. Actually, just about all diversity has been forced. Unfortunately, straight, white and make as the default has been a thing for centuries and that thought process doesn't just naturally change. Which is why so many POC/female characters are made so purposely.

lolife67 posted...

Actually, just about all diversity has been forced. Unfortunately, straight, white and make as the default has been a thing for centuries and that thought process doesn't just naturally change. Which is why so many POC/female characters are made so purposely.

this is the most ethnocentrist thing i ever read

MangaBroski posted...

High fantasy should be the genre where diversity costs nothing. There are no inherent bases for tropes or stereotypes for bad writing. Every character can hypothetically exist naturally in the setting as a high fantasy world has no hang-ups of the real world.

i still see some people getting pissed at minority finally showing up in high fantasy cuz to them it's unrealistic for a non white person to be in one but no not the dragons or fairy's those are totally realistic

Dungeater posted...

this is the most ethnocentrist thing i ever read

How so? Do you think I'm saying "forced" as a negative thing?

haloiscoolisbak posted...

What did we think of the diversity within the gang of RDR2?

Just using this as an example. As a history nerd I just couldn't wrap my head around a 19th century cowboy gang just "not seeing colour" like that and having a bunch of black guys in their gang. It didn't feel realistic.

Now does that overpower the need to give representation to various races because they don't feature enough generally in media? Probably not.

I mean RDR2 goes out of it's way to show that Dutch is not a good example of comtemporary cowboys of the period.

He's obsessed with his own personal concept of "True Freedom" that he himself doesn't even fully comprehend. He accepts anyone in his gang that would be loyal to him. It makes sense that he doesn't judge based on race.

The game has no qualms showing that general society is racist. Look at the way the plot/NPCs treat the Native Americans, Javier, Lenny etc.

About the only historical mistep RDR2 makes is that Javier and Lenny are allowed at the bar next to Arthur. And that's nitpicking.

Dungeater posted...

???

marginalized groups banding together for safety in numbers and common experiences, and lashing out at the society that kicks and takes advantage of them

....

is unrealistic?

I can't see how half the gang were marginalised though? Marston, Dutch, Arthur and Bill were white dudes who rob and kill people

They would be likely be racist people IRL and I guess I think it downplays what the era was like to show a happy smiling "we believe in equality" style criminal gang.

It was a racist time, show that. Make the characters flawed

lolife67 posted...

How so? Do you think I'm saying "forced" as a negative thing?

bruh

UnfairRepresent posted...

I mean those characters tend to suck tho.

Like that Baldurs Gate character who just blurts out their entire life story about being transgender and the details of their transition the moment you meet them for literally no reason.

I like how you can't be asked to play the game but still decide to hate it. They don't blurt out their backstory, you have to ask them about it.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

I can't see how half the gang were marginalised though? Marston, Dutch, Arthur and Bill were white dudes who rob and kill people

They would be likely be racist people IRL and I guess I think it downplays what the era was like to show a happy smiling "we believe in equality" style gang.

It was a racist time, show that. Make the characters flawed

So you completely skip over my post showing sources about how black cowboys made up anywhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of all cowboys (both outlaws and lawmen) and instead choose to reply to one where you can complain that the game wasn't racist enough towards black people

Interesting

Dungeater posted...

bruh

I'm genuinely asking. I'm a 47 year old black guy, so I'm not sure what you're thinking, hence the question. What did you take issue with in my statement?

haloiscoolisbak posted...

I can't see how half the gang were marginalised though? Marston, Dutch, Arthur and Bill were white dudes who rob and kill people

They would be likely be racist people IRL and I guess

Bill is racist

I also don't get why you think it's so crazy that not literally everyone was racist back then even before you get into Dutch's beliefs

I think it downplays what the era was like to show a happy smiling "we believe in equality" style gang.

Wut. How? That's like a massive massive part of the plot in a gme that goes out of it's way to show a "stylized but accurate" vision of the period.

It was a racist time, show that. Make the characters flawed

Wut?

IT does show the racism, every character IS flawed (except Charles for some reason)

...

Have you even played RDR2?

haloiscoolisbak posted...

What did we think of the diversity within the gang of RDR2?

Just using this as an example. As a history nerd I just couldn't wrap my head around a 19th century cowboy gang just "not seeing colour" like that and having a bunch of black guys in their gang. It didn't feel realistic.

Now does that overpower the need to give representation to various races because they don't feature enough generally in media? Probably not.

The whole point of Dutch's gang is that they're outcasts on the run from the law. Minorities naturally fit into that.

Diversity is only a bad thing to racists.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

I can't see how half the gang were marginalised though? Marston, Dutch, Arthur and Bill were white dudes who rob and kill people

They would be likely be racist people IRL and I guess I think it downplays what the era was like to show a happy smiling "we believe in equality" style gang.

bill is closeted gay

yes Dutch and his surrogate sons were career criminals. why you think this makes them inherently racist, i do not know. the game even extremely believably covers how people like charles and lenny get to fall in with a gang like that. you finally find a family, people who will protect you and fight to the death for you, in a world that is literally out to get u

god this is like

this is a brutal conversation