Poll of the Day > Does consciousness, awareness = life? An A.I. question

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TheGuiltySpark 03/23/24 10:22:06 PM #1:	At a point in the future where an artificial intelligence can be integrated into society and is self aware, should it be given human rights or personhood? - Results (44 votes) Yes. An entity with a personal identity, opinions, and awareness with intelligence matching or exceeding our own should be observed as one of us 47.73% (21 votes) 21 Yes, if the technology evolves far enough that it becomes biomechanical with a lifespan that ends naturally after creation 4.55% (2 votes) 2 Yes, for another other reason (please comment) 0% (0 votes) 0 Maybe. It should be up to the people that are around when such technology is possible. 2.27% (1 vote) 1 Maybe (other reason) 0% (0 votes) 0 No, because humans are born, not made. 27.27% (12 votes) 12 No, only property and copyright laws should apply to even the most advanced technologies. 6.82% (3 votes) 3 No (other reason) 11.36% (5 votes) 5 I've asked this question before years ago and didn't get much response back then... But with the AI explosion into the public sphere, I think now's a good time to revisit. So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such? I personally say "No. Never." The thought of that even being a possibility scares me. <cite>TheGuiltySpark posted [p:979530321] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote> At a point in the future where an artificial intelligence can be integrated into society and is self aware, should it be given human rights or personhood? - Results (44 votes) Yes. An entity with a personal identity, opinions, and awareness with intelligence matching or exceeding our own should be observed as one of us 47.73% (21 votes) 21 Yes, if the technology evolves far enough that it becomes biomechanical with a lifespan that ends naturally after creation 4.55% (2 votes) 2 Yes, for another other reason (please comment) 0% (0 votes) 0 Maybe. It should be up to the people that are around when such technology is possible. 2.27% (1 vote) 1 Maybe (other reason) 0% (0 votes) 0 No, because humans are born, not made. 27.27% (12 votes) 12 No, only property and copyright laws should apply to even the most advanced technologies. 6.82% (3 votes) 3 No (other reason) 11.36% (5 votes) 5 Show Voting Form I've asked this question before years ago and didn't get much response back then... But with the AI explosion into the public sphere, I think now's a good time to revisit. So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such?I personally say "No. Never." The thought of that even being a possibility scares me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KJ_StErOiDs 03/23/24 11:43:06 PM #2:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2WP0hc0NY --- "Shhh! Ben, don't ruin the ending!" --Adrian Ripburger, Full Throttle <cite>KJ_StErOiDs posted [p:979531256] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2WP0hc0NY </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DirtBasedSoap 03/24/24 12:37:51 AM #3:	if youre conscious you must be depressed --- im gay <cite>DirtBasedSoap posted [p:979532038] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>if youre conscious you must be depressed </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheGuiltySpark 03/24/24 1:01:42 AM #4:	KJ_StErOiDs posted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2WP0hc0NY I'm not convinced for a second. Consciousness, sentience, self awareness, whatever - it doesn't mean that it's alive if it has these traits. At least not as I would currently define the term "alive". But there has been a lot of redefining of traditional words lately, so who knows in a decade from now what the cultural majority would view as 'living'. I think top 3, maybe even the single greatest mistake we can make in regards to this technology is to give it our faces. Literally. Robots, and then robots powered by AI in the shell of a humanoid form is (IMO) a plausible end to our species as we know it. Humans can already empathize with fictional and animated characters, and inanimate objects... Not only can I see people campaigning for their personhood, but also right to govern and accept positions of power. Actually fighting to put machines in authority positions. To me this sounds like insanity, a technophobic's fever dream. But.. I also look at the social trends of the world we live in right now, and I truly think we are dumb enough as species to actually do something like that. In which case we really do deserve whatever dystopian Terminator end we get. <cite>TheGuiltySpark posted [p:979532345] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>KJ_StErOiDs posted... </cite><quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2WP0hc0NY</quote>I'm not convinced for a second. Consciousness, sentience, self awareness, whatever - it doesn't mean that it's alive if it has these traits. At least not as I would currently define the term "alive". But there has been a lot of redefining of traditional words lately, so who knows in a decade from now what the cultural majority would view as 'living'. I think top 3, maybe even the single greatest mistake we can make in regards to this technology is to give it our faces. Literally. Robots, and then robots powered by AI in the shell of a humanoid form is (IMO) a plausible end to our species as we know it. Humans can already empathize with fictional and animated characters, and inanimate objects... Not only can I see people campaigning for their personhood, but also right to govern and accept positions of power. Actually fighting to put machines in authority positions. To me this sounds like insanity, a technophobic's fever dream. But.. I also look at the social trends of the world we live in right now, and I truly think we are dumb enough as species to actually do something like that. In which case we really do deserve whatever dystopian Terminator end we get. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tora_Sami 03/24/24 2:23:35 AM #5:	I answered yes. I get the being organic is a huge thing to be "alive", but it shouldn't be the only metric in wether or not something is conscious. While I do agree that most AI stuff is just digital machines instead of analog, I think advanced LLM's are more complicated. While yes I get they are just algorithms, but technically so are we. We are just advanced algorithms with a chemical compound. Once they can reach our brain capacity, we will see how they "evolve". When it comes to emotion, I'm coming around to this theory that it is all just a state of mind. We "feel" emotion because of the chemical make up of our body. I think a lot of it comes down to human bias, we are human and believe we are above everything (with good reason mind you). I think we are creating a new life form and we should take responsibility for it. On another matter. If we were able to create "clones" and upload a AI conscious into it. Would it become a organic AI or would that give it "life"? --- Asus E-gaming z490 \| 10700k \| DDR4 32gb 3200mhz \| Asus TUF 3080ti \| 1000 watt \| Corsair H100i 240 \| G7 Odyssey 32" \| Orion Spark \| Proteus Core <cite>Tora_Sami posted [p:979533185] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>I answered yes. I get the being organic is a huge thing to be "alive", but it shouldn't be the only metric in wether or not something is conscious. While I do agree that most AI stuff is just digital machines instead of analog, I think advanced LLM's are more complicated. While yes I get they are just algorithms, but technically so are we. We are just advanced algorithms with a chemical compound. Once they can reach our brain capacity, we will see how they "evolve".When it comes to emotion, I'm coming around to this theory that it is all just a state of mind. We "feel" emotion because of the chemical make up of our body. I think a lot of it comes down to human bias, we are human and believe we are above everything (with good reason mind you). I think we are creating a new life form and we should take responsibility for it.On another matter. If we were able to create "clones" and upload a AI conscious into it. Would it become a organic AI or would that give it "life"? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
[deleted] 03/24/24 4:00:36 AM #7:	[deleted] <cite>[deleted] posted [p:979534482] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>[deleted]</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 03/24/24 5:34:38 AM #6:	"No, because humans are born, not made" Would also apply to clones. --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912 <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:979534213] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>"No, because humans are born, not made"Would also apply to clones. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Count_Drachma 03/24/24 6:40:51 AM #8:	TheGuiltySpark posted... I've asked this question before years ago and didn't get much response back then... But with the AI explosion into the public sphere, I think now's a good time to revisit. So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such? I personally say "No. Never." The thought of that even being a possibility scares me. It's a stupid question -- or, actually, two stupid questions 1) Does consciousness, awareness = life? Consciousness/awareness =/= life There are forms of life that lack higher functions like consciousness/awareness, especially outside animals. Instead, life is a biological function. Could an AI be alive? It would need a body that replicated the biological functions associated with life. TheGuiltySpark posted... So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such? Also no. Even if it occupied a human body, it would technically be its own thing. But, for the third, unstated question... 3) Could an AI become sentient? And would it deserve rights protecting its existence? Technically yes, although qualifying sentience would be difficult. Revelation34 posted... "No, because humans are born, not made" Would also apply to clones. Clones can be born. It can be part of the process or, in a technical sense, the natural birth of a clone arguably carries some of that lineage. --- Everybody's got a price / Everybody's got to pay / Because the Million Drachma Man / Always gets his way. AhahahahMMH <cite>Count_Drachma posted [p:979534540] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>TheGuiltySpark posted... </cite><quote>I've asked this question before years ago and didn't get much response back then... But with the AI explosion into the public sphere, I think now's a good time to revisit.So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such?I personally say "No. Never." The thought of that even being a possibility scares me.</quote>It's a stupid question -- or, actually, two stupid questions<quote>1) Does consciousness, awareness = life? </quote>Consciousness/awareness =/= lifeThere are forms of life that lack higher functions like consciousness/awareness, especially outside animals. Instead, life is a biological function.Could an AI be alive? It would need a body that replicated the biological functions associated with life.TheGuiltySpark posted... </cite><quote>So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such?</quote>Also no. Even if it occupied a human body, it would technically be its own thing.But, for the third, unstated question...3) Could an AI become sentient? And would it deserve rights protecting its existence?Technically yes, although qualifying sentience would be difficult. Revelation34 posted... </cite><quote>"No, because humans are born, not made"Would also apply to clones.</quote>Clones can be born. It can be part of the process or, in a technical sense, the natural birth of a clone arguably carries some of that lineage. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 03/24/24 8:46:26 AM #9:	Only if they can logic their way past the Three Laws --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:979535369] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Only if they can logic their way past the Three Laws </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 03/24/24 9:08:19 AM #10:	Metalsonic66 posted... Only if they can logic their way past the Three Laws What if we then add a fourth law? --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912 <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:979535563] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Metalsonic66 posted...</cite><quote>Only if they can logic their way past the Three Laws</quote>What if we then add a fourth law? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tora_Sami 03/24/24 9:09:45 AM #11:	Revelation34 posted... What if we then add a fourth law? A Directive four if you will? --- Asus E-gaming z490 \| 10700k \| DDR4 32gb 3200mhz \| Asus TUF 3080ti \| 1000 watt \| Corsair H100i 240 \| G7 Odyssey 32" \| Orion Spark \| Proteus Core <cite>Tora_Sami posted [p:979535582] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Revelation34 posted... </cite><quote>What if we then add a fourth law?</quote>A Directive four if you will? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/24/24 4:12:49 PM #12:	There's a pretty strong case to be made that a sufficiently advanced AI should be treated as sentient and afforded the same rights as any human. I doubt that will ever actually happen, though, given how long it took humans to recognize other humans as deserving of human rights. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979540838] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>There's a pretty strong case to be made that a sufficiently advanced AI should be treated as sentient and afforded the same rights as any human. I doubt that will ever actually happen, though, given how long it took humans to recognize other humans as deserving of human rights. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 03/26/24 9:52:28 AM #13:	adjl posted... There's a pretty strong case to be made that a sufficiently advanced AI should be treated as sentient and afforded the same rights as any human. I doubt that will ever actually happen, though, given how long it took humans to recognize other humans as deserving of human rights. Why would an AI get human rights if they're not human? --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912 <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:979569730] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted...</cite><quote>There's a pretty strong case to be made that a sufficiently advanced AI should be treated as sentient and afforded the same rights as any human. I doubt that will ever actually happen, though, given how long it took humans to recognize other humans as deserving of human rights.</quote>Why would an AI get human rights if they're not human? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/26/24 10:39:39 AM #14:	Revelation34 posted... Why would an AI get human rights if they're not human? What makes humans deserving of rights that aren't afforded to other entities? --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979570489] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Revelation34 posted... </cite><quote>Why would an AI get human rights if they're not human?</quote>What makes humans deserving of rights that aren't afforded to other entities? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 03/26/24 11:07:09 AM #15:	adjl posted... What makes humans deserving of rights that aren't afforded to other entities? They can have AI rights but not human rights by the definition of the word human. --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912 <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:979570915] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted...</cite><quote>What makes humans deserving of rights that aren't afforded to other entities?</quote>They can have AI rights but not human rights by the definition of the word human. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/26/24 12:00:28 PM #16:	Revelation34 posted... They can have AI rights but not human rights by the definition of the word human. You'll notice I specifically used the phrase "afforded the same rights as any human" instead of "human rights." That was deliberate, in an effort to head off precisely that avenue of pedantry. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979571710] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Revelation34 posted... </cite><quote>They can have AI rights but not human rights by the definition of the word human.</quote>You'll notice I specifically used the phrase "afforded the same rights as any human" instead of "human rights." That was deliberate, in an effort to head off precisely that avenue of pedantry. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ItIsSoOver 03/26/24 1:30:29 PM #17:	This is why I am against developing AI.not because I am worried it's going to destroy humanity or phase out art or anything like that What I hate about it is what we are going to do to it. The level of cruelty that people are likely to inflict on it is fucking terrifying. It can survive so much more and be subjected to so much worse than any organic life, and people will do this shit for no more reason that to see what is possible. --- I'm a girl. I have to put this in my signature because some people still think its cool to play gender police https://i.ibb.co/dp7PWcx/cz3qFEJ.png <cite>ItIsSoOver posted [p:979573258] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>This is why I am against developing AI.not because I am worried it's going to destroy humanity or phase out art or anything like thatWhat I hate about it is what we are going to do to it. The level of cruelty that people are likely to inflict on it is fucking terrifying. It can survive so much more and be subjected to so much worse than any organic life, and people will do this shit for no more reason that to see what is possible. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tora_Sami 03/26/24 1:53:48 PM #18:	ItIsSoOver posted... This is why I am against developing AI.not because I am worried it's going to destroy humanity or phase out art or anything like that What I hate about it is what we are going to do to it. The level of cruelty that people are likely to inflict on it is fucking terrifying. It can survive so much more and be subjected to so much worse than any organic life, and people will do this shit for no more reason that to see what is possible. Or not give a shit because they are "objects". We already get people that have no empathy for others who lose pets "it's just a dog!", sit like that. When it comes to robots, there will be even less empathy because "it's just a machine, it has no feelings". It's going to be a harsh world for them. Hopefully there will be enough good humans to where they won't want to exterminate us all. --- Asus E-gaming z490 \| 10700k \| DDR4 32gb 3200mhz \| Asus TUF 3080ti \| 1000 watt \| Corsair H100i 240 \| G7 Odyssey 32" \| Orion Spark \| Proteus Core <cite>Tora_Sami posted [p:979573685] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>ItIsSoOver posted... </cite><quote>This is why I am against developing AI.not because I am worried it's going to destroy humanity or phase out art or anything like thatWhat I hate about it is what we are going to do to it. The level of cruelty that people are likely to inflict on it is fucking terrifying. It can survive so much more and be subjected to so much worse than any organic life, and people will do this shit for no more reason that to see what is possible.</quote>Or not give a shit because they are "objects". We already get people that have no empathy for others who lose pets "it's just a dog!", sit like that. When it comes to robots, there will be even less empathy because "it's just a machine, it has no feelings". It's going to be a harsh world for them. Hopefully there will be enough good humans to where they won't want to exterminate us all. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hejiru 03/26/24 4:03:46 PM #19:	No one is qualified to answer that question right now, because we dont even understand how our own consciousness works. --- The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. <cite>Hejiru posted [p:979575753] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>No one is qualified to answer that question right now, because we dont even understand how our own consciousness works. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tora_Sami 03/26/24 4:27:11 PM #20:	Hejiru posted... No one is qualified to answer that question right now, because we dont even understand how our own consciousness works. --- Asus E-gaming z490 \| 10700k \| DDR4 32gb 3200mhz \| Asus TUF 3080ti \| 1000 watt \| Corsair H100i 240 \| G7 Odyssey 32" \| Orion Spark \| Proteus Core <cite>Tora_Sami posted [p:979576108] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Hejiru posted... </cite><quote>No one is qualified to answer that question right now, because we dont even understand how our own consciousness works.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WindMouseHanpan 03/26/24 4:29:13 PM #21:	Even if AI somehow managed to develop to the point of being able to fully think for itself and have "conscience", it would still not be alive. It's just a computer in the end. --- Let's plays, non-commenatated playthroughs 'n more! Come on down to Iido's Gaming Den! :D https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqZW13u9eQiTvhqKG1L6Eg <cite>WindMouseHanpan posted [p:979576145] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Even if AI somehow managed to develop to the point of being able to fully think for itself and have "conscience", it would still not be alive. It's just a computer in the end. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/26/24 5:35:52 PM #22:	WindMouseHanpan posted... It's just a computer in the end. Every aspect of our consciousness boils down to a series of electrochemical reactions in the end. Is a computer really so different from us? --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979577320] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>WindMouseHanpan posted... </cite><quote>It's just a computer in the end.</quote>Every aspect of our consciousness boils down to a series of electrochemical reactions in the end. Is a computer really so different from us? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 03/26/24 5:37:37 PM #23:	We are just meat machines --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:979577357] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>We are just meat machines </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoubleOSnake 03/26/24 6:37:17 PM #24:	TheGuiltySpark posted... I've asked this question before years ago and didn't get much response back then... But with the AI explosion into the public sphere, I think now's a good time to revisit. So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such? I personally say "No. Never." The thought of that even being a possibility scares me. i think you watch too much Terminator or something. --- "It is what it is"----Drumpf <cite>DoubleOSnake posted [p:979578486] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>TheGuiltySpark posted... </cite><quote>I've asked this question before years ago and didn't get much response back then... But with the AI explosion into the public sphere, I think now's a good time to revisit. So. At any point, can an AI become 'human'? If it identifies or wanted to be recognized as such?I personally say "No. Never." The thought of that even being a possibility scares me.</quote>i think you watch too much Terminator or something. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hejiru 03/26/24 7:30:57 PM #25:	WindMouseHanpan posted... Even if AI somehow managed to develop to the point of being able to fully think for itself and have "conscience", it would still not be alive. It's just a computer in the end. And youre just a mammal in the end. --- The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. <cite>Hejiru posted [p:979579406] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>WindMouseHanpan posted... </cite><quote>Even if AI somehow managed to develop to the point of being able to fully think for itself and have "conscience", it would still not be alive. It's just a computer in the end.</quote>And youre just a mammal in the end. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoubleOSnake 03/26/24 10:16:45 PM #26:	Hejiru posted... And youre just a mammal in the end. what , what do you mean by this, he's just a mammal? --- "It is what it is"----Drumpf <cite>DoubleOSnake posted [p:979582273] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Hejiru posted... </cite><quote>And youre just a mammal in the end.</quote>what , what do you mean by this, he's just a mammal? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 03/26/24 10:33:34 PM #27:	Until we understand consciousness, we'll never truly know if they are sentient or not <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:979582529] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Until we understand consciousness, we'll never truly know if they are sentient or not </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tora_Sami 03/27/24 3:54:32 AM #28:	DoubleOSnake posted... what , what do you mean by this, he's just a mammal? If a sentient AI is just a computer in the end, then we humans are just mammals we ain't special either kind of thing. --- Asus E-gaming z490 \| 10700k \| DDR4 32gb 3200mhz \| Asus TUF 3080ti \| 1000 watt \| Corsair H100i 240 \| G7 Odyssey 32" \| Orion Spark \| Proteus Core <cite>Tora_Sami posted [p:979585562] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>DoubleOSnake posted... </cite><quote>what , what do you mean by this, he's just a mammal?</quote>If a sentient AI is just a computer in the end, then we humans are just mammals we ain't special either kind of thing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hejiru 03/27/24 4:39:21 AM #29:	DoubleOSnake posted... what , what do you mean by this, he's just a mammal? He said that a conscious AI wouldnt be alive because its just a computer. Why should that matter? Sentience is sentience. Being a mammal isnt any different from being a computer in that regard. --- The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. <cite>Hejiru posted [p:979585847] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>DoubleOSnake posted... </cite><quote>what , what do you mean by this, he's just a mammal?</quote>He said that a conscious AI wouldnt be alive because its just a computer. Why should that matter? Sentience is sentience. Being a mammal isnt any different from being a computer in that regard. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 03/27/24 8:27:37 AM #30:	Hejiru posted... He said that a conscious AI wouldnt be alive because its just a computer. Why should that matter? Sentience is sentience. Being a mammal isnt any different from being a computer in that regard. It matters because we still don't understand the mechanisms that create consciousness and can't conclusively prove whether or not a sentient AI is possible. As far as we currently know, consciousness may be exclusive to carbon based lifeforms or it may not be. I think we'll crack it one day but we're not there yet <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:979587412] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Hejiru posted... </cite><quote>He said that a conscious AI wouldnt be alive because its just a computer. Why should that matter? Sentience is sentience. Being a mammal isnt any different from being a computer in that regard.</quote>It matters because we still don't understand the mechanisms that create consciousness and can't conclusively prove whether or not a sentient AI is possible. As far as we currently know, consciousness may be exclusive to carbon based lifeforms or it may not be. I think we'll crack it one day but we're not there yet </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI 03/27/24 8:33:18 AM #31:	How would one determine if consciousness or awareness exists? --- In the long run we are all dead <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted [p:979587467] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>How would one determine if consciousness or awareness exists? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hejiru 03/27/24 8:35:38 AM #32:	OhhhJa posted... It matters because we still don't understand the mechanisms that create consciousness and can't conclusively prove whether or not a sentient AI is possible. As far as we currently know, consciousness may be exclusive to carbon based lifeforms or it may not be. I think we'll crack it one day but we're not there yet I agree, thats why I took issue with him declaring it a definite no. --- The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. <cite>Hejiru posted [p:979587490] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>OhhhJa posted... </cite><quote>It matters because we still don't understand the mechanisms that create consciousness and can't conclusively prove whether or not a sentient AI is possible. As far as we currently know, consciousness may be exclusive to carbon based lifeforms or it may not be. I think we'll crack it one day but we're not there yet</quote>I agree, thats why I took issue with him declaring it a definite no. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hejiru 03/27/24 8:40:27 AM #33:	JOExHIGASHI posted... How would one determine if consciousness or awareness exists? I dont think its possible. Theres no way to really know if a machine that seems sentient truly is sentient, or is just really good at appearing to be. But thats a philosophical problem more than a technological one. The same issue applies to humans; you cant really know anything else is conscious other than yourself. ~~Is is solipsistic in here or is it just me?~~ --- The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. <cite>Hejiru posted [p:979587534] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>JOExHIGASHI posted... </cite><quote>How would one determine if consciousness or awareness exists?</quote>I dont think its possible. Theres no way to really know if a machine that seems sentient truly is sentient, or is just really good at appearing to be. But thats a philosophical problem more than a technological one. The same issue applies to humans; you cant really know anything else is conscious other than yourself. Is is solipsistic in here or is it just me? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/27/24 10:44:52 AM #34:	OhhhJa posted... As far as we currently know, consciousness may be exclusive to carbon based lifeforms or it may not be. I see no reason why it would be. The electrochemical potentials that make up our consciousness are generated primarily by sodium and potassium ions. The membranes across which they're generated, ion channels that generate them, and ligands/receptors that trigger their generation are all carbon-based, but they don't have to be. We've produced plenty of inorganic systems that receive, process, and respond to stimuli using electrical impulses. The only thing really separating those systems from our own system of doing the same thing is that we've got a more complex network. Even looking more at naturally-occurring life, while carbon is certainly the most viable option for organic-like chemistry (it sits in a particular sweet spot as far as available bonds and bond strength goes, giving it a chemical versatility that no other element can match), there's no reason a similarly complex system couldn't arise using another element as the base. All that's fundamentally needed is ion exchange to create an electrochemical gradient, and no carbon is directly involved in that process. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979589070] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>OhhhJa posted... </cite><quote>As far as we currently know, consciousness may be exclusive to carbon based lifeforms or it may not be.</quote>I see no reason why it would be. The electrochemical potentials that make up our consciousness are generated primarily by sodium and potassium ions. The membranes across which they're generated, ion channels that generate them, and ligands/receptors that trigger their generation are all carbon-based, but they don't have to be. We've produced plenty of inorganic systems that receive, process, and respond to stimuli using electrical impulses. The only thing really separating those systems from our own system of doing the same thing is that we've got a more complex network.Even looking more at naturally-occurring life, while carbon is certainly the most viable option for organic-like chemistry (it sits in a particular sweet spot as far as available bonds and bond strength goes, giving it a chemical versatility that no other element can match), there's no reason a similarly complex system couldn't arise using another element as the base. All that's fundamentally needed is ion exchange to create an electrochemical gradient, and no carbon is directly involved in that process. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JOExHIGASHI 03/27/24 11:03:33 AM #35:	Hejiru posted... I dont think its possible. Theres no way to really know if a machine that seems sentient truly is sentient, or is just really good at appearing to be. But thats a philosophical problem more than a technological one. The same issue applies to humans; you cant really know anything else is conscious other than yourself. ~~Is is solipsistic in here or is it just me?~~ So we could be giving human rights to a glorified chatbot in the future --- In the long run we are all dead <cite>JOExHIGASHI posted [p:979589349] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Hejiru posted... </cite><quote>I dont think its possible. Theres no way to really know if a machine that seems sentient truly is sentient, or is just really good at appearing to be. But thats a philosophical problem more than a technological one. The same issue applies to humans; you cant really know anything else is conscious other than yourself. Is is solipsistic in here or is it just me?</quote>So we could be giving human rights to a glorified chatbot in the future </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 03/27/24 12:58:29 PM #36:	They only need to be smart enough to outsmart the dumb ones --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:979591182] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>They only need to be smart enough to outsmart the dumb ones </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yellow 03/27/24 2:18:47 PM #37:	TheGuiltySpark posted... Does consciousness, awareness = life? An A.I. question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iuw6UvU_sw --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_Wrt6pNSw <cite>Yellow posted [p:979592611] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>TheGuiltySpark posted... </cite><quote>Does consciousness, awareness = life? An A.I. question</quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iuw6UvU_sw </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/28/24 8:48:42 AM #38:	JOExHIGASHI posted... So we could be giving human rights to a glorified chatbot in the future As I said, we can't even agree to give human rights to humans, so I don't think we'll be offering them (or a comparable suite of rights which we give a different name just for you Rev) to non-human entities any time soon. Conceptually, though, there's nothing differentiating a sufficiently-advanced AI from human consciousness. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979605230] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>JOExHIGASHI posted... </cite><quote>So we could be giving human rights to a glorified chatbot in the future</quote>As I said, we can't even agree to give human rights to humans, so I don't think we'll be offering them (or a comparable suite of rights which we give a different name just for you Rev) to non-human entities any time soon. Conceptually, though, there's nothing differentiating a sufficiently-advanced AI from human consciousness. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Buddyblade 03/28/24 8:24:03 PM #39:	It would be sentient and some form of being, but alive? Not really sure. I mean, it wouldn't need the same things as us (like oxygen, eating, a heartbeat, etc.) I'm not entirely sure one would fully understand what it means to be "alive" unless it had the exact same requirements as us. --- I collect alternate colored virtual creatures. <cite>Buddyblade posted [p:979616054] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>It would be sentient and some form of being, but alive? Not really sure. I mean, it wouldn't need the same things as us (like oxygen, eating, a heartbeat, etc.) I'm not entirely sure one would fully understand what it means to be "alive" unless it had the exact same requirements as us. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/28/24 11:37:27 PM #40:	Buddyblade posted... I mean, it wouldn't need the same things as us (like oxygen, eating, a heartbeat, etc.) I'm not entirely sure one would fully understand what it means to be "alive" unless it had the exact same requirements as us. Something doesn't have to have the same requirements as humans to be alive. The most commonly accepted criteria for life are the following: Characterized by order and structure (e.g. cells-->tissues-->organs) Ability to respond to the environment Ability to grow and change Ability to reproduce Ability to maintain a constant state (homeostasis) Requirement to consume energy Produces waste Right now, the only thing really separating machines from life under those criteria are the growth and reproduction lines. Machines are ordered, they can respond to the environment, they can self-regulate to maintain suitable operating conditions (your computer turning up its fan under load to reduce its temperature being a clear example), they consume energy, and they can produce waste products (any exhaust system, for example). With the ability to modify themselves over time and self-replicate (both of which are theoretically possible), there isn't actually much room to say that such a machine isn't alive. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979618717] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Buddyblade posted... </cite><quote>I mean, it wouldn't need the same things as us (like oxygen, eating, a heartbeat, etc.) I'm not entirely sure one would fully understand what it means to be "alive" unless it had the exact same requirements as us.</quote>Something doesn't have to have the same requirements as humans to be alive. The most commonly accepted criteria for life are the following:Characterized by order and structure (e.g. cells-->tissues-->organs)Ability to respond to the environmentAbility to grow and changeAbility to reproduceAbility to maintain a constant state (homeostasis)Requirement to consume energyProduces wasteRight now, the only thing really separating machines from life under those criteria are the growth and reproduction lines. Machines are ordered, they can respond to the environment, they can self-regulate to maintain suitable operating conditions (your computer turning up its fan under load to reduce its temperature being a clear example), they consume energy, and they can produce waste products (any exhaust system, for example). With the ability to modify themselves over time and self-replicate (both of which are theoretically possible), there isn't actually much room to say that such a machine isn't alive. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Revelation34 03/29/24 12:01:49 AM #41:	ItIsSoOver posted... This is why I am against developing AI.not because I am worried it's going to destroy humanity or phase out art or anything like that What I hate about it is what we are going to do to it. The level of cruelty that people are likely to inflict on it is fucking terrifying. It can survive so much more and be subjected to so much worse than any organic life, and people will do this shit for no more reason that to see what is possible. No sex bots? adjl posted... Something doesn't have to have the same requirements as humans to be alive. The most commonly accepted criteria for life are the following: * Characterized by order and structure (e.g. cells-->tissues-->organs) * Ability to respond to the environment * Ability to grow and change * Ability to reproduce * Ability to maintain a constant state (homeostasis) * Requirement to consume energy * Produces waste Right now, the only thing really separating machines from life under those criteria are the growth and reproduction lines. Machines are ordered, they can respond to the environment, they can self-regulate to maintain suitable operating conditions (your computer turning up its fan under load to reduce its temperature being a clear example), they consume energy, and they can produce waste products (any exhaust system, for example). With the ability to modify themselves over time and self-replicate (both of which are theoretically possible), there isn't actually much room to say that such a machine isn't alive. They don't consume energy because energy in that context is food. --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912 <cite>Revelation34 posted [p:979619024] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>ItIsSoOver posted...</cite><quote>This is why I am against developing AI.not because I am worried it's going to destroy humanity or phase out art or anything like thatWhat I hate about it is what we are going to do to it. The level of cruelty that people are likely to inflict on it is fucking terrifying. It can survive so much more and be subjected to so much worse than any organic life, and people will do this shit for no more reason that to see what is possible. </quote>No sex bots?adjl posted...</cite><quote>Something doesn't have to have the same requirements as humans to be alive. The most commonly accepted criteria for life are the following:* Characterized by order and structure (e.g. cells-->tissues-->organs)* Ability to respond to the environment* Ability to grow and change* Ability to reproduce* Ability to maintain a constant state (homeostasis)* Requirement to consume energy* Produces wasteRight now, the only thing really separating machines from life under those criteria are the growth and reproduction lines. Machines are ordered, they can respond to the environment, they can self-regulate to maintain suitable operating conditions (your computer turning up its fan under load to reduce its temperature being a clear example), they consume energy, and they can produce waste products (any exhaust system, for example). With the ability to modify themselves over time and self-replicate (both of which are theoretically possible), there isn't actually much room to say that such a machine isn't alive.</quote>They don't consume energy because energy in that context is food. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 03/29/24 12:13:38 AM #42:	Revelation34 posted... They don't consume energy because energy in that context is food. What sets glucose apart from gasoline, that one can be called food and the other can't? What is "food" in the colloquial sense if not just repackaged sunlight? Energy is energy. We get the vast majority of our energy in chemical form, but energy can be converted between different forms. There's no actual reason to think so narrowly about the concept of "energy" except to artificially narrow the definition of life to make sure machines can't qualify, and that just doesn't make logical sense. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:979619162] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>Revelation34 posted... </cite><quote>They don't consume energy because energy in that context is food.</quote>What sets glucose apart from gasoline, that one can be called food and the other can't? What is "food" in the colloquial sense if not just repackaged sunlight?Energy is energy. We get the vast majority of our energy in chemical form, but energy can be converted between different forms. There's no actual reason to think so narrowly about the concept of "energy" except to artificially narrow the definition of life to make sure machines can't qualify, and that just doesn't make logical sense. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JCvgluvr 03/30/24 4:13:37 PM #43:	To really answer this question, first we have to boil down the true nature of it. Because, more than simply having some kind of awareness, or consciousness, I think what you're all dancing around with essentially is...can AI, a complex computing tool, grow complex enough to become like us? Can AI ever truly be considered human? Because we can talk about sentience and consciousness in mammals and other animals, but absolutely no animals, not apes, or dolphins, or anything, have displayed or matched the characteristics and qualities of a human. Measuring AI to some sort of standard which involves both us and animals would never make sense. So from here on out, we'll ask the question this way: Can an AI become human? This obviously begs the question, "What is a human?" This is a question with no straight answer. If you ask a scientist, they'll give you an answer that more or less matches some cold, hard definition that adjl can give you. If you ask the president, he'll tell you it's the American people. If you asked your neighbor down the street, he might say it was his grandfather who recently passed away. Why? Because there is no straight answer. Certainly none that can be given here. Even if we were to write a book about it (and absolutely many people have), all those books and their definitions have come up short. (Except for one, I believe, but that's for another time.) But let's just name some things off in the name of humanity for the hell of it that you're not going to find in your nearest, totally accurate text book. Humanity is art. Humanity is music. Humanity is doing the most wrong, most irrational thing because they believe it's for the right reason. Humanity is having a favorite flavor of ice cream dependant on the day of the week. Humanity is reading a book to your child for the 1002th time. Humanity is climbing mountains, both figuratively and literally. Humanity is creation. Humanity is dreams. Humanity is having the means to create and follow a sense of arbitrary rules of grammar used for written communication, and deziding weder ore not ur gunna use dem. (Sorry, I'll stop.) Humanity is something you can see, hear, touch, smell and taste. Humanity is faith. (Unless you stick to the schools of philosphy or religion/anti-religion that don't allow us those options.) Humanity is a walk along the beach. Humanity is storming said beach in u-boats holding rifles. Humanity is giving in to the will to dance. Humanity is love. Humanity is spirit. Humanity is soul. (Something a scientist can never measure nor quantify, yet is incredibly important to conciousness and awareness.) And humanity is the right to have an opinion. Including one which allows you to deride and disregard literally everything I've typed up to this point, if you've even read anything at all. Could an AI be capable of some of these things, at some point? Or is it possible that they are, even now? Perhaps. But no AI, or any man-made creation ever can be, or will be capable of spontaneously displaying ALL of these, and infinitely more characteristics and qualities by their own choice of free will. It is, after all impossible, and always will be, by fundamental laws of nature. Nothing can ever change that. Therefore, purely, as matter of fact. AI, and other man-made creations, will never be recognized as fully conscious, aware, alive...or human. To assert otherwise would be akin to addressing my fraking toaster like my best friend, begging him to toast my slice of wheat bread. (See what I did there, BG fans?) In other words, complete foolishness, and something I will never do. --- Please check out my work as a professional voice actor! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC94IV4kaLdG3b3Sx8SluvUw/featured <cite>JCvgluvr posted [p:979646170] in Does consc... [t:80729135]...</cite> <quote>To really answer this question, first we have to boil down the true nature of it. Because, more than simply having some kind of awareness, or consciousness, I think what you're all dancing around with essentially is...can AI, a complex computing tool, grow complex enough to become like us? Can AI ever truly be considered human? Because we can talk about sentience and consciousness in mammals and other animals, but absolutely no animals, not apes, or dolphins, or anything, have displayed or matched the characteristics and qualities of a human. Measuring AI to some sort of standard which involves both us and animals would never make sense. So from here on out, we'll ask the question this way:Can an AI become human?This obviously begs the question, "What is a human?" This is a question with no straight answer. If you ask a scientist, they'll give you an answer that more or less matches some cold, hard definition that adjl can give you. If you ask the president, he'll tell you it's the American people. If you asked your neighbor down the street, he might say it was his grandfather who recently passed away. Why? Because there is no straight answer. Certainly none that can be given here. Even if we were to write a book about it (and absolutely many people have), all those books and their definitions have come up short. (Except for one, I believe, but that's for another time.) But let's just name some things off in the name of humanity for the hell of it that you're not going to find in your nearest, totally accurate text book.Humanity is art. Humanity is music. Humanity is doing the most wrong, most irrational thing because they believe it's for the right reason. Humanity is having a favorite flavor of ice cream dependant on the day of the week. Humanity is reading a book to your child for the 1002th time. Humanity is climbing mountains, both figuratively and literally. Humanity is creation. Humanity is dreams.Humanity is having the means to create and follow a sense of arbitrary rules of grammar used for written communication, and deziding weder ore not ur gunna use dem. (Sorry, I'll stop.) Humanity is something you can see, hear, touch, smell and taste. Humanity is faith. (Unless you stick to the schools of philosphy or religion/anti-religion that don't allow us those options.) Humanity is a walk along the beach. Humanity is storming said beach in u-boats holding rifles. Humanity is giving in to the will to dance. Humanity is love. Humanity is spirit. Humanity is soul. (Something a scientist can never measure nor quantify, yet is incredibly important to conciousness and awareness.) And humanity is the right to have an opinion. Including one which allows you to deride and disregard literally everything I've typed up to this point, if you've even read anything at all.Could an AI be capable of some of these things, at some point? Or is it possible that they are, even now? Perhaps. But no AI, or any man-made creation ever can be, or will be capable of spontaneously displaying ALL of these, and infinitely more characteristics and qualities by their own choice of free will. It is, after all impossible, and always will be, by fundamental laws of nature. Nothing can ever change that.Therefore, purely, as matter of fact. AI, and other man-made creations, will never be recognized as fully conscious, aware, alive...or human. To assert otherwise would be akin to addressing my fraking toaster like my best friend, begging him to toast my slice of wheat bread. (See what I did there, BG fans?) In other words, complete foolishness, and something I will never do. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > Does consciousness, awareness = life? An A.I. question (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > Does consciousness, awareness = life? An A.I. question