Current Events > Dune 2 is a good movie but a terrible adaptation.

(+) Yeah! (+)

So many liberties taken to create a digestible, neutered version of Dune. I love the books too much, jank and all. Dune Part 1 is my Fellowship of the Ring, Part 2 is my Hobbit.

That is all.

It was heavily lacking intrigue and suspense, I felt. Still enjoyable to watch.

KitKats posted...

It was heavily lacking intrigue and suspense, I felt. Still enjoyable to watch.

Agreed. It's very straight forward.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Sorry, movie. I mean to say that Part 1 was very faithful and mathematical with the adaptation part of things and Part 2 comes along and says, "How about I make a fan fiction instead."

Agreed.

I dont know if i can reasonably compare Dune 2 to the hobbit movies

I have a friend who's read every book and would talk about Dune before the first movie came out and I saw Dune 2 in the week early showing with him. He said he couldn't have asked for anything better

I disagree. If anything, I feel the opposite. I think Villeneuve did a pretty darn good job of injecting some narrative tension into the story and beefing up some characters for the screen where they are barely characters in the first book (Duncan Idaho, Gurney, Feyd, etc).

Doe posted...

I have a friend who's read every book and would talk about Dune before the first movie came out and I saw Dune 2 in the week early showing with him. He said he couldn't have asked for anything better

Totally disagreed.

Jihad censored
Jessica drinks the water
Alia rewrite
Baron rewrite
Emperor rewrite
No navigators (!)
Spice rewrite

Could go on.

C-zom posted...

Could go on.

Things get changed in adaptations to fit medium structure. The only thing there that I think is really arguably an issue is the use of the word jihad. Yes I know guild navigators are really important to the logistical world building of Dune, but they're not strictly needed because knowing that spice is essential for the universe is already sufficient information for the plot to work.

Wait you think LotR is faithful to the book but the Hobbit isnt? They both took plenty of liberties adapting to the screen.

Doe posted...

Things get changed in adaptations to fit medium structure. The only thing there that I think is really arguably an issue is the use of the word jihad. Yes I know guild navigators are really important to the logistical world building of Dune, but they're not strictly needed because knowing that spice is essential for the universe is already sufficient information for the plot to work.

Out of context, sure. In context? No explanation of limited solar power, troop deployment, nuclear stockpiling, spice hoarding outlawed (legally), the Emperor's machinations... tell me when to stop. Their sanctions are so goddamn important to the special flavor of political intrigue. Not even a cursory mention of the war of assassins.

Without the navigator guild being the presently omnipotent force they are in books 1/2, then why have spice at all? It makes eyes blue and people trip balls, according to casual viewers.

rexcrk posted...

Wait you think LotR is faithful to the book but the Hobbit isnt? They both took plenty of liberties adapting to the screen.

Fellowship was a sign of things to come, and both sequels sucked. Hobbit torpedoed the last surviving boat. See: Dune.

C-zom posted...

Totally disagreed.

Jihad censored
Jessica drinks the water
Alia rewrite
Baron rewrite
Emperor rewrite
No navigators (!)
Spice rewrite

Could go on.

I'm curious as to what some of these mean. What is spice rewrite?

C-zom posted...

Out of context, sure. In context? No explanation of limited solar power, troop deployment, nuclear stockpiling, spice hoarding outlawed (legally), the Emperor's machinations... tell me when to stop. Their sanctions are so goddamn important to the special flavor of political intrigue. Not even a cursory mention of the war of assassins.

You can't just extended info dump on people in a movie. It's a fundamentally different medium. It tells a story through visuals, something which is Denis Villenueve's expertise. The movie dune part 2 tells the story of Paul's tragic messianic rise in the way a movie best can. (Though again this is where I think the level of use of Islamic language and motifs is a fair criticism of the movie.) The book Dune does it in a way a book best can.

BlueberryWaffle posted...

I'm curious as to what some of these mean. What is spice rewrite?

Jihad has been notoriously neuteured, with the exact word itself being rewritten in both movies. Paul undulates between various descriptors, all in "his name."

Jessica has nothing to do with any of the meta plot but you'd argue she has all the keys by watching Part 2, including Alia.
Alia was a supernatural being with all the memories and life experiences of her ancestors. She wrecks shit in battlefields, and kills the Baron due to his genetic disposition see: Jessica.
Baron is much more sinister, cunning and effective. He's supposed to be a Fool King, but instead actually gets close. Small, but still a rewrite. He shouldn't have banked on that duel and suddenly found honor.
Emperor is a wimp and barely in the movie re: Walkens advanced age. Not much else to say. He's a powerhouse of aged doctrine in the books, and a feeble old conspirator in the movie for... 3 minutes of scenes.
Spice guild, navigators, their omnipotent power and reach are 120% ignored in both movies. Why can't you invade with armies? Why can't you nuke enemies? Why does the emperor tell me where I'm living in advance? All of this is unexplained in the movies, Guild in the books.
Spice is a naturally occurring stimulant in the books that leads to both insanity and clairvoyance. In the movies, it's a cultural thing.

I mean you're comparing it to LotR vs Hobbit as well when the LotR movies necessarily cut out an enormous amount of worldbuilding and literary devices that construct the many messages of the books, in order to focus on the elements most conducive to the visual medium. The entire scourging of the Shire is missing and Saruman just disappears if you're not watching extended cut lol. No Tom Bombadil in Fellowship famously

C-zom posted...

Fellowship was a sign of things to come, and both sequels sucked. Hobbit torpedoed the last surviving boat. See: Dune.

wait you think the 2nd and 3rd LOTR movies sucked?

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

wait you think the 2nd and 3rd LOTR movies sucked?

Fotr 9/10
TT 6/10
ROTK 4/10

Yessir.

If you add in the guild navigators as a device to Dune part 1 and 2, nothing changes about the story it's trying to tell. Adding explanation for the Harkonnens getting the aid of the emperor's army or what the deal with WMDs is or why dukes' fiefs are being moved around is all extraneous to Paul's story. Nor is any of that baffling and confounding moreso than the premises of any work of fantasy/sci-fi.

Spice is not just described as a cultural thing, this is the one thing Dune Part 1 actually shamelessly infodumps on you using Paul's education cassette tapes.

https://youtu.be/1_TuEO6Mttw

"For the imperium, Spice is used by the Navigators of the Spacing Guild to find safe paths between the stars. Without spice, interstellar travel is impossible, making it by far the most valuable substance in the universe."

Later when Paul is overwhelmed in the spice field it's stated spice is a powerful hallucinogenic and the veracity of its future visions is left largely to the audience.

Personally speaking I don't think you can adapt it with assuming the audience will know and appreciate the original novels.

He is trying to take an exceptionally dense piece of fiction and making it digestible for less than 6 hours of content. A bunch of the stuff you are discussing only make sense heading into other novels and background info.

There's also NO WAY they are going to adapt EVERYTHING so you need to make cuts where they make sense.

Complaint: Jihad censored.
Answer: Holy War means the same thing and is a less controversial term to use. It's fine.

Complaint: Jessica drinks the water.
Answer: I don't remember how this differed from the book, but keeping it vague and mystical and creepy worked fine from a narrative perspective. I've seen loads of people confused by this part of the book.

Complaint: Alia rewrite.
Answer: There is no way to make a superhuman, wise toddler work in a film and you know it.

Complaint: Baron rewrite.
Answer: His brutality, cunning, and ambition are shown off in both movies. That's all we have time for.

Complaint: Emperor rewrite.
Answer: I've read the book, and Emperor never made an impression on me. For his character to matter more, you'd have needed more backstory and politics and the movie was already about 3 hours long.

Complaint: No navigators (!).
Answer: Using the navigators as part of the movie's plot would have needed more political background, and an explanation about mentats and why there are no thinking machines in the world of Dune. That would have been gripping stuff, but it would have taken away from Paul's core story, and when would the movie have had time for it?

Complaint: Spice rewrite.
Answer: It has been a while, but I think that, within the confines of the characters, plot points, and factions they decided to use, spice was handled completely. Spice addiction would have been a nice addition to the movie, but really, all we needed to know about it for the purposes of the movie is that it was the most valuable thing everyone wants.

BlueberryWaffle posted...

Could go on.

I'll go on for you. I was looking forward to seeing Hawat again because he is my favorite in the books, but really, there wasn't a place for him. Really, I wanted all the stuff they left out, but they made the movie as long as you can make one and managed to tell a coherent narrative with exciting visuals and passable acting while not shitting all over one of the best novels ever written. They did good.

Dune pt.2 is light years better than the Hobbit, cold take.

Dune Part 2 was great. Different doesn't mean bad. A one to one adaptation was never possible or even a good idea.