Current Events > HGSS's level curve is so fucked

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you try to play the game with a team of 5 or 6, you will be perpetually underleveled and struggle the whole game. In Kanto, you can't even fight wild Pokemon anymore because they're all level 12. Genuinely mystifying game design.

If my ass could 100% Soulsilver when I was 10 then you got this

Bruh, does the experience share not work in those games like how it does in newer entries? Just saying since that should solve your problems of being under leveled so long as you leave it switched on.

The level curve will always be a flaw in the johto games.

Though HGSS is still peak remake that hadn't been matched to this day due to the sheer amount of content.

Doe posted...

If my ass could 100% Soulsilver when I was 10 then you got this

I can do it, I would just prefer to be able to play the game with a full team, like every other Pokemon game.

Garioshi posted...

I can do it, I would just prefer to be able to play the game with a full team, like every other Pokemon game.

If my ass could 100% Soulsilver with a six team of my favorite Mons at 10, you got this

Garioshi posted...

I can do it, I would just prefer to be able to play the game with a full team, like every other Pokemon game.

You easily can.

At what point are you even struggling once you get past Whitney?

Agent_Stroud posted...

Bruh, does the experience share not work in those games like how it does in newer entries? Just saying since that should solve your problems of being under leveled so long as you leave it switched on.

Iirc the Exp Share at the time was a hold item. You give it to an underleveled pokeymans and they take some of the experience won without taking part in the fight. Any pokeyman not holding it doesn't get the free exp.

Wait I might be able to find the game cart and we can peak what my team was

Honestly, the remakes sort of made the level curve worse.

At least in the post game. There's nowhere to grind, but the levels of top trainers keep going up, with better move pools and harder hitters, making it more necessary for you to grind than in the original games. HGSS means you need to have at least somewhat close levels when fighting Red. in GS you could get away with being 20 levels below because the team was worse and had no synergy with anything.

The single exception is bumping up Pryce's levels in HGSS. That was needed.

I kinda get what they were doing with Kanto in terms of keeping it authentic (can't have level 40 Pokmon running around Pallet town if they weren't there in Red) but it's still dumb lol

Natural level up movesets not being garbage really helps for difficulty.

I actually replayed HeartGold randomly a few months back, and most of the game is pretty reasonable, but the jump in levels post-Kanto, first with the Elite Four rematch (especially Lance) and then Red at the very end, when the gym leader rematch is pretty much the only reasonable source of exp, is a little obnoxious.

I do the N-1 rule. Take the number gym you are on and subtract 1 and that's the amount of Pokemon you should have. Only have 2 by gym 3, 3 by gym 4, etc. Works out well for me.

Proto_Spark posted...

Honestly, the remakes sort of made the level curve worse.

At least in the post game. There's nowhere to grind, but the levels of top trainers keep going up, with better move pools and harder hitters, making it more necessary for you to grind than in the original games. HGSS means you need to have at least somewhat close levels when fighting Red. in GS you could get away with being 20 levels below because the team was worse and had no synergy with anything.

The single exception is bumping up Pryce's levels in HGSS. That was needed.

Also, Gen 2 mechanics in general werent as in depth as Gen 4 and were easier to cheese

Agent_Stroud posted...

Bruh, does the experience share not work in those games like how it does in newer entries? Just saying since that should solve your problems of being under leveled so long as you leave it switched on.

Exp share was pathetic until gen 6. It made level grinding even worse.

One would think they'd have learned their lesson from G/S/C.

Umbreon posted...

You easily can.

At what point are you even struggling once you get past Whitney?

The ice gym can fuck you over

I've never ever felt like a Pokemon game was hard tbh. Except when I was like 7 and didn't fully understand the game.

Granted, occasionally you'll get tripped up by a battle you were unprepared for. Or maybe in the fight against Red. But overall? All of them are easy if you have any patience at all lol

I just finished Crystal and I feel this. I beat the game but was so underleveled throughout but cheesed my way through the Elite Four and Kanto. Leveling is a chore. I'm at lvl 48 and got to Red and his Pikachu was lvl 80 and I just gave up. I got my Celebi and went straight into Omega Ruby.

Doing a HG run right now and abusing the fuck out of the rematch system

ChrisTaka posted...

I kinda get what they were doing with Kanto in terms of keeping it authentic (can't have level 40 Pokmon running around Pallet town if they weren't there in Red) but it's still dumb lol

Black and White 2 made you go to the starter town in the postgame and they had level 50 pokemon there.

FL81 posted...

Doing a HG run right now and abusing the fuck out of the rematch system

I forgot about using the phone to call old trainers...I actually went the whole game without getting any trainers' numbers lmao. Then by the end of the game I realized I forgot.

FL81 posted...

Doing a HG run right now and abusing the fuck out of the rematch system

Pokemaniac Brent by any chance?

ViewtifulJoe posted...

Pokemaniac Brent by any chance?

Gentleman Alfred giving me a max cash stack before I even beat the Elite Four

>struggle

the only time you need to grind is to beat red which you can do while 20 levels lower

Garioshi posted...

If you try to play the game with a team of 5 or 6, you will be perpetually underleveled and struggle the whole game.

...will you really, though? I don't remember falling behind in exp until after Morty and even then just said "fuck it" and had no real issue. Reached the Elite 4 being 10 levels weaker than Will and the only really hard fights was Karen. >_>

I beat og Gold, Silver and Crystal pretty easily. Idk why you found remakes hard.

As long as you choose Cyndaquil, game is a cakewalk. On Friday, you can get Lapras or wait for red gyarados as your water type.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

...will you really, though? I don't remember falling behind in exp until after Morty and even then just said "fuck it" and had no real issue. Reached the Elite 4 being 10 levels weaker than Will and the only really hard fights was Karen. >_>

Its funny but I remember only wanting to fight Elite Four(wasn't ready yet) just to see how I'd fare and ended up beating them. I had enough revives and full restores between battles just in case. I did have some issues because I didn't have anything to fend off well against the Psychic types, especially with Alakazam's incredible speed.

for an open-ass world, scarlet forced me to overlevel just because i explored where i shouldn't explore, most things became irrelevant just because of that

Nukazie posted...

for an open-ass world, scarlet forced me to overlevel just because i explored where i shouldn't explore, most things became irrelevant just because of that

I do hate that the game doesn't scale to your level. That's an incredible oversight.

Proto_Spark posted...

Honestly, the remakes sort of made the level curve worse.

At least in the post game. There's nowhere to grind, but the levels of top trainers keep going up, with better move pools and harder hitters, making it more necessary for you to grind than in the original games. HGSS means you need to have at least somewhat close levels when fighting Red. in GS you could get away with being 20 levels below because the team was worse and had no synergy with anything.

The single exception is bumping up Pryce's levels in HGSS. That was needed.

Red is still beatable with a Team of Pokemon around level 60, which I achieved without grinding. Just need a good team composition and maybe a few items. This can be made easier by using the level 70 Ubers available like the other Gen2 Mascot (Ex: Lugia in Heart Gold) or Mewtwo, although isn't necessary.

I agree the level curve in the Johto games, remake or otherwise, is trash...and is why Red is as hard as he is.

the_real_Naruto posted...

I do hate that the game doesn't scale to your level. That's an incredible oversight.

It should scale to the number of "badges" you have. Clear a gym? The levels in other areas go up. Beat a titan? Levels go up. That way you can still level grind if you wanna overpower challenges that way and you can tackle each area in the order you want while still seeing a gradual level increase.

Hambo posted...

It should scale to the number of "badges" you have. Clear a gym? The levels in other areas go up. Beat a titan? Levels go up. That way you can still level grind if you wanna overpower challenges that way and you can tackle each area in the order you want while still seeing a gradual level increase.

I agree. It was a major complaint I had when I learned about it. I'm actually planning to play it in a specific order which....well which will destroy the whole point of open world but eh.

HGSS's garbage level-curve hard, just tedious. You are either under-leveled where the difficulty comes less from well-made enemy team compositions or movesets than it does from just out-stating you, or you grind on low-level wild Pokmon until you are more appropriately leveled.

Just use one pokemon. All the games are easy af

Umbreon posted...

At what point are you even struggling once you get past Whitney?

I have never gotten this. How do people struggle against Whitney to begin with? Every time I've played GSC/HGSS, I always choose Cyndaquil and I've never had any issues with her.

it's pokemon. i can't imagine struggling against the ai unless your team is complete garbage or you just aren't trying

Monferno_AQW posted...

I have never gotten this. How do people struggle against Whitney to begin with? Every time I've played GSC/HGSS, I always choose Cyndaquil and I've never had any issues with her.

I just went into Crystal expecting an issue with her and just destroyed her even without Cyndaquil. I didn't even use my starter. I won't say that late game is easy but I was definitely underleveled with six pokemon.

Monferno_AQW posted...

I have never gotten this. How do people struggle against Whitney to begin with? Every time I've played GSC/HGSS, I always choose Cyndaquil and I've never had any issues with her.

First time blind you probably aren't going to be very focused on status moves (Smokescreen ftw). I know I wasn't, I lucked out as a kid by getting a burn on it.

Additionally, not every trainer finds the Machop trade right away.

Miltank is a stat wall that can easily wipe inexperienced trainers, and that's not even counting the chance of Clefairy pulling its bullshit.

No Pokemon game is at all challenging.

GrandConjuraton posted...

No Pokemon game is at all challenging.

Colosseum/XD would beg to differ.

(D/P/Pt also get rather nuts near the end)

Doe posted...

If my ass could 100% Soulsilver when I was 10 then you got this

Honestly I tried replaying yellow a few years ago game is way harder than I remember. I only remembered struggling at the beginning cause brock

FL81 posted...

Doing a HG run right now and abusing the fuck out of the rematch system

This is the way.

Nukazie posted...

for an open-ass world, scarlet forced me to overlevel just because i explored where i shouldn't explore, most things became irrelevant just because of that

Unpopular opinion: I don't think open world Pokemon is any good. Arceus was actually a breath of fresh air, but that was more "open zone" than world per se. I disliked Scarlet immensely. So far both styles have not given us fun dungeons or towers to climb with intricate and fun level design. Can you imagine a "dark souls" style dungeon with shortcuts to the entrance to find and actually well designed maps? WHY haven't we gotten this yet?!

I have high hopes for the new Legends game as I truly think that is the future of the franchise, but Scarlet is absolutely not it. I hated the world, the performance, the lack of QoL from Arceus. Just felt drab and empty and boring with nothing actually interesting to see and do. I dropped it real hard. Think I did one or two of each of the "main quests" and just stopped cause I had no interest. I actually liked Sword a bit more, just cause it has some curated routes and paths to go through (though I wouldn't put it anywhere above "mediocre").

Think the last Pokemon game I truly loved was Black and White 2. Everything from 3DS onward has been a severe disappointment to "well this has cool ideas but is clearly a prototype".

GrandConjuraton posted...

No Pokemon game is at all challenging.

I was playing the HGSS Battle Tower yesterday and I dispute this.
Nothing sinks your mood like a Fissure -> Quick Claw + Crit combo.
Kaldrenthebold posted...

Think the last Pokemon game I truly loved was Black and White 2.

How does BW2 hold up on repeat playthroughs?
I kind of gave up looking and settled for watching a playthrough. I'm seeing quite a bit of being dragged around and shown side stuff like contests and the PWT, seems kind of tedious.

It was especially frustrating because all other games in Gen 4 had the Vs. Seeker, aka the single best trainer rematch system that's ever existed in the franchise by a country mile. I didn't even bother with HGSS's system: "No, I am not going through the effort to remember to meet you at 5pm on Saturday just for a single fucking rematch."

HGSS were great games otherwise, but I always moved my 'mons back to Platinum any time I had to do any leveling.

ViewtifulJoe posted...

I was playing the HGSS Battle Tower yesterday and I dispute this.
Nothing sinks your mood like a Fissure -> Quick Claw + Crit combo.

Battle Tower and its like have always been rigged against the player. Running into foes that end your runs by spamming KO moves that always seem to hit was a problem I ran into a lot in most games that have such facilities. I remember the whole Battle Frontier in Emerald was notorious for this, particularly the Battle Factory.