Current Events > KC Chiefs billionaire owners threaten to leave unless tax payers pay for them

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Were_Wyrm
03/18/24 10:44:15 AM
#51:


Jaguar34 posted...
Don't both states have bankrupt governments?
Kansas actually has a surplus at the moment. Which republicans immediately started screeching for tax cuts even though a number of state services are still underfunded, and we have yet to expand Medicaid because it would cost the state like an extra 2 million a year.

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invertedlegdrop
03/18/24 10:46:00 AM
#52:


Where would the Chiefs go if they left KC?

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WingsOfGood
03/18/24 10:46:25 AM
#53:


watching John Oliver video, so threat is always to move to LA ?
cause that is where the Chiefs said they will go LOL
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nocturnal_traveler
03/18/24 10:47:14 AM
#54:


WingsOfGood posted...
watching John Oliver video, so threat is always to move to LA ?
cause that is where the Chiefs said they will go LOL
They should ask the Raiders how well that worked out for them.

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CARRRNE_ASADA
03/18/24 10:52:14 AM
#55:


Rich people looove socialism when its about themselves. Granted like others have said, if itll help the overall economy then coherent amount of money or tax incentives should be given, but not hundreds of millions.

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WingsOfGood
03/18/24 10:53:06 AM
#56:


wow...just realized the cultism in sports is likely something the Capitalist seeks to ingrain in a child so they will easily provide stuff like this

there is this lady in the John Oliver video who is like "I support SPORTS! I support teams! YOU DON'T" to the Mayor of her town who is trying to get out of an $800 million per year bill
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UnsteadyOwl
03/18/24 10:53:22 AM
#57:


https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

Here is an article talking about the economic impact of major sports franchises in cities weighed against the public funds that go into building facilities. A quick summary of the conclusions:
  • New sports facilities generally have an extremely small effect on overall economic activity and employment
  • No recent facility has been self-financing in terms of the effect on tax revenue.
  • They do little to attract tourists or new industry.
  • Most spending inside a stadium is a substitute for other local spending (such as movies and restaurants).
  • Most jobs created by sports stadiums are part-time and/or low wage jobs. Star players making high salaries usually don't live in the city where they play so not much of what they earn goes back into the local economy.
  • Major sports leagues have monopoly power and use it to keep the number of franchises below the number of cities that could support a team, which enables owners to use the threat of moving a team to demand public subsidies.

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WingsOfGood
03/18/24 10:54:52 AM
#58:


CARRRNE_ASADA posted...
Rich people looove socialism when its about themselves. Granted like others have said, if itll help the overall economy then coherent amount of money or tax incentives should be given, but not hundreds of millions.

it won't help the economy

truth is if they just spread out that $500 million per citizen that would give way more money per citizen than a stadium and "JOBS" is going to
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_____Cait
03/18/24 10:58:49 AM
#59:


why do we put so much money into sports and hollywood when they generate so much trash

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Dark-Summoner
03/18/24 10:59:18 AM
#60:


UnsteadyOwl posted...
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

Here is an article talking about the economic impact of major sports franchises in cities weighed against the public funds that go into building facilities. A quick summary of the conclusions:
* New sports facilities generally have an extremely small effect on overall economic activity and employment
* No recent facility has been self-financing in terms of the effect on tax revenue.
* They do little to attract tourists or new industry.
* Most spending inside a stadium is a substitute for other local spending (such as movies and restaurants).
* Most jobs created by sports stadiums are part-time and/or low wage jobs. Star players making high salaries usually don't live in the city where they play so not much of what they earn goes back into the local economy.
* Major sports leagues have monopoly power and use it to keep the number of franchises below the number of cities that could support a team, which enables owners to use the threat of moving a team to demand public subsidies.

I was going to post this.

I'm an Illinois resident where 2 of our teams are looking for new stadiums.

Bears - have asked for help with infrastructure which I feel is the job of the government to help with that.

White Sox - Got told absolutely not by the governor. Super scummy owner, will try again.

Screw Billionaires wanting tax dollars.
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obliteratus
03/18/24 10:59:29 AM
#61:


UnsteadyOwl posted...
https://www.brookings.edu

Yes I did come across that think tank in my searching as well, but they are basing this on findings from a 1997 book...from the post:

To find out more, see Roger Noll and Andrew Zimbalists edited book, Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums.

Is there any actual data provided anywhere else? I'll get the book and read it, but I want something more recent that surveys the actual results on a data basis from the last 25 years of this subject. Strictly based on the numbers of cash in, cash out. Then the data speaks for itself, no think tanks required.

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WingsOfGood
03/18/24 11:00:11 AM
#62:


UnsteadyOwl posted...
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

Here is an article talking about the economic impact of major sports franchises in cities weighed against the public funds that go into building facilities. A quick summary of the conclusions:
* New sports facilities generally have an extremely small effect on overall economic activity and employment
* No recent facility has been self-financing in terms of the effect on tax revenue.
* They do little to attract tourists or new industry.
* Most spending inside a stadium is a substitute for other local spending (such as movies and restaurants).
* Most jobs created by sports stadiums are part-time and/or low wage jobs. Star players making high salaries usually don't live in the city where they play so not much of what they earn goes back into the local economy.
* Major sports leagues have monopoly power and use it to keep the number of franchises below the number of cities that could support a team, which enables owners to use the threat of moving a team to demand public subsidies.

what a surprise!
not really but amazing how basically the narrative that is put forth is complete lies

they are just purely greedy
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Dark_Arbron
03/18/24 11:00:13 AM
#63:


_____Cait posted...
why do we put so much money into sports and hollywood when they generate so much trash

Bread and circuses.

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Geiki_Ganger
03/18/24 11:02:21 AM
#64:


If the stadium receives public funding, wouldn't that trigger an obligation to disclose financials statements and accountings? My understanding is that the Packers are the only NFL team who disclose such information.

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Simon_Gruber
03/18/24 11:08:04 AM
#65:


I'm voting No. Wife and my dad are too. Everyone else I know is on the KS side and can't.
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Block_that_Kick
03/18/24 11:08:58 AM
#66:


Where are you getting your 90% figure from?

Yeah, youre right. I was probably being generous with that 90% figure.

And that price is the box office price, not the price that non-season tickets holders have to pay via StubHub or Ticketmaster.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a8548ec5.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/2cc90fd4.jpg

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obliteratus
03/18/24 11:10:22 AM
#67:


Geiki_Ganger posted...
If the stadium receives public funding, wouldn't that trigger an obligation to disclose financials statements and accountings? My understanding is that the Packers are the only NFL team who disclose such information.

It depends on how the funding is provided. If it's in the form of low-interest, tax-exempt bonds that are issued by the city/state then there can be stipulations as part of negotiations. But that type of funding does not in itself give equity stake to the public or enforce more transparency. But given the size of the requested contribution from the public, I don't see why it couldn't be a part of negotiations to say "okay we can get you the funding this way but we need an equity stake in the profit"

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#68
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VeggetaX
03/18/24 11:37:54 AM
#69:


I've seen similar situations and debates before. From what I've been told, team owners' arguments is that it'll pay so much back in taxes over the decades that it'll be more than cover the initial portion of tax money.

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obliteratus
03/18/24 11:43:24 AM
#70:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Nice. Great analysis. That's very little time for a return on investment especially for such a large infrastructure project. I was expecting something like 20 years for a return. Sounds like a 50% contribution means it would take...12-ish years? Still very good, although I do realize that not every state is going to be precisely the same in the dynamic here.

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FortuneCookie
03/18/24 11:44:46 AM
#71:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT90D0GKZRM
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ClayGuida
03/18/24 11:46:16 AM
#72:


Studies show that cities that subsidize these billionaires never recoup the money.

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#73
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LightningThief
03/18/24 11:49:15 AM
#74:


I didn't read the article, but ofc not.

But I am curious how many poor people will simp for the billionaire.
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FortuneCookie
03/18/24 11:50:57 AM
#75:


ClayGuida posted...
Studies show that cities that subsidize these billionaires never recoup the money.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/31b4e668.png
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obliteratus
03/18/24 11:51:13 AM
#76:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Wouldn't a 50% contribution mean that from the ROI of $1.90 per dollar spent, they would get half of the ROI instead of all of it? So the duration until it pays off is approximately doubled from 6 years to 12 years.

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#77
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WingsOfGood
03/18/24 11:52:01 AM
#78:


ClayGuida posted...
Studies show that cities that subsidize these billionaires never recoup the money.

b-b-but the billionaire said it would boost the economy! surely they didn't make that the fuck up?
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#79
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obliteratus
03/18/24 11:53:38 AM
#80:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Ah okay so then the contracts on those teams would need to include modern stipulations during negotiations. But I don't see why they wouldn't play ball since the model you shared shows that the revenue is quickly a net gain for an investment that in theory doesn't require the team owners if they don't want to play ball.

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#81
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Solar_Crimson
03/18/24 11:56:17 AM
#82:


WingsOfGood posted...
Should the public foot the bill?
No. His greedy ass should go fuck himself.

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ScazarMeltex
03/18/24 12:03:25 PM
#83:


obliteratus posted...
Ah okay so then the contracts on those teams would need to include modern stipulations during negotiations. But I don't see why they wouldn't play ball since the model you shared shows that the revenue is quickly a net gain for an investment that in theory doesn't require the team owners if they don't want to play ball.
Or, if the ROI is so great, then why can't the fucking rich asshole who owns the team pay for it himself.

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texanfan27
03/18/24 12:04:58 PM
#84:


Stadiums rarely pay out enough to justify their costs. And they can make threats about moving, but guess what, it takes time to set infrastructure down for a team move.

the city should only pay what they are guaranteed back, you want 70% paid by city taxes, then 70% of the revenue goes back into the city and its now a public building to be used by the city as needed.

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vycebrand2
03/18/24 12:21:33 PM
#85:


Cephalopods posted...
It's still privately owned. Idc what jobs it could potentially create, if the public has to pay for it then it shouldnt be privately owned by this billionaire.
The Owner over time should payback the taxpayers for their contributions

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wanderingshade
03/18/24 12:22:51 PM
#86:


Sound like some shit the Walton family would do

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RchHomieQuanChi
03/18/24 12:36:20 PM
#87:


LeCh0nk posted...
If taxpayers are going to foot 70% of the bill, then taxpayers should get 70% of the revenue it generates.

This is only fair

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mustachedmystic
03/18/24 12:37:44 PM
#88:


obliteratus posted...
Did you see those renderings of the facility? That is the equity stake. You can't lift-and-shift the infrastructure after it has been built. That facility will generate revenue for the city and state for many decades.
They will most likely want a whole new stadium within 2 decades

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voldothegr8
03/18/24 12:40:53 PM
#89:


I skimmed this whole topic and didn't see it being brought up, but this isn't a typical stadium situation. The county it resides owns it, this team owner simply leases the place out. They're lucky he's offering as much as he is.

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StarFighters76
03/18/24 1:00:02 PM
#90:


And so the drama with the Stadiums continues lol. The threat of Chiefs leaving is new to me, as the last I heard was the renovations would basically include a complete makeover with other new features. But this would take place, once the proposed Kauffman Stadium (Royals play place and neighboring building of Arrowhead Stadium) will move to downtown KC. In case any outsiders aren't familiar with that drama, KC wants to build a new stadium for the Royals in a tiny area along I-670/South Loop in the Crossroads District. People are voting "no" because not only is it a dumb idea, but because of the residents and businesses of that area would be gone and the new 3/8 sales taxes that goes with it. Not that it really matters since the city already made up its mind, and voting is just a wasted formality. Anyways once Kauffman is potentially gone, the old place would be leveled, and Arrowhead can expand itself with new features.

For those not familiar with KC, the locations of the Stadiums is just fine where they are. Massive space that stretches pretty far. More than enough parking for everyone. Sure sleeping and eating accommodations in that area aren't the best (I live near there so I would know), but there are other places to go for sure. Why even move it, even after Kauffman was renovated maybe 10 years ago, is beyond me. Just a waste of time and money.

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WingsOfGood
03/18/24 1:39:22 PM
#91:


voldothegr8 posted...
I skimmed this whole topic and didn't see it being brought up, but this isn't a typical stadium situation. The county it resides owns it, this team owner simply leases the place out. They're lucky he's offering as much as he is.

what do you mean they are lucky?
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pretzelcoatl
03/18/24 2:01:55 PM
#92:


I hope they don't cave. Minnesota was forced to pay so much of US Bank Stadium and it was not worth it. Fuck them, let em leave.
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ShineboxPhil
03/18/24 2:11:43 PM
#93:


Can't wait to see Patrick Maholmes lead the Toronto Chiefs to a Super Bowl victory.

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DirkDiggles
03/18/24 2:15:47 PM
#94:


No tax dollar should be used to build or renovate any pro team stadium. It's like asking me if I want to help pay for a new Apple Headquarters. NO!

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absolutebuffoon
03/18/24 2:23:10 PM
#95:


obliteratus posted...
By paying ticket prices to enjoy state of the art facilities and by even becoming employed there in many cases, or in surrounding businesses that get propped up by the foot traffic of people wanting to enjoy a state of the art facility.
This means if I don't like football I can forego the football tax right?
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TheDurinator
03/18/24 2:24:01 PM
#96:


Ladies and Gentlemen, your Kansas City (Kansas) Chiefs!
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Northlane
03/18/24 2:27:59 PM
#97:


Unsuprised_Pika posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/978224c9.jpg


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IfGodCouldDie
03/18/24 2:37:05 PM
#98:


Southernfatman posted...
Fuck that. Too bad government officials are too greedy and too many people care too much about "muh football" to just lay down and accept billionaires being cheap and mooching off of taxpayers. Funny how certain folks get constantly enraged over poor people on benefits, but are fine with this.
Or socialist policies in general, but are okay with corporate and billionaire hand outs

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voldothegr8
03/18/24 3:20:50 PM
#99:


WingsOfGood posted...
what do you mean they are lucky?
The county owns the stadium, the team owner is already paying lease. The fact he's willing to give anything further for renovations is extremely generous.

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X8Azazel8X
03/18/24 3:31:15 PM
#100:


LeCh0nk posted...
If taxpayers are going to foot 70% of the bill, then taxpayers should get 70% of the revenue it generates.

This if they want the public to be paying then the public should own shares in the team and benefit from the profits.

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