Current Events > How would you react if your boss told you not to hire a certain ethnicity?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lets imagine that in this scenario, theres no possibility of legal recourse against them.

Publicly expose my boss.

If I can't take any legal recourse against them that's fine, the people's court is always open.

Try and get proof (in writing would be good) and Im pretty sure the government would take it from there. To my knowledge in Australia an employer can actually be sued by the government if it can be proven they have discriminated on unlawful grounds. The person discriminated against doesnt have to pursue the matter themselves.

(on a related note, asking for a police check should be added to the list of illegal questions)

I mean, I'm not in a position of authority, so them telling me that would be pretty pointless.

I would ask why, and go from there.

I keep a recording app ready for such unlikely scenarios.

008Zulu posted...

I would ask why, and go from there.

They feel like their clients want white teachers for their children is the reason I was given.

Guide posted...

I keep a recording app ready for such unlikely scenarios.

I dont think that would be particularly helpful. Even if I had recorded the conversation (I didnt), I dont see a way in which I could effectively use it against him.

To clarify, I mentioned this in another topic earlier today and it got me thinking. One of the members of the board at my school told me that I should refrain from hiring black teachers. Ive hired them anyway, but I was wondering how people would feel about it if exposing the employer wouldnt achieve anything.

Guide posted...

I keep a recording app ready for such unlikely scenarios.

Glob posted...

I dont think that would be particularly helpful. Even if I had recorded the conversation (I didnt), I dont see a way in which I could effectively use it against him.

Its illegal to record someone without their consent. Unless youre FBI engaging in wire tapping of course, but even then, its still illegal on paper - they just dont get punished for it because western countries totally be free and democratic yo.

I'd grin and bear it till I found another job then expose it. Got mouths to feed and all that.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Its illegal to record someone without their consent. Unless youre FBI engaging in wire tapping of course, but even then, its still illegal on paper - they just dont get punished for it because western countries totally be free and democratic yo.

To be honest, Im not sure about the legalities of recording somebody without consent here. Even if you can find it on paper, it doesnt mean its ever enforced. Lots of laws here are completely ignored.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I'd grin and bear it till I found another job then expose it. Got mouths to feed and all that.

I could get another job very easily, but Id probably have the same problem there.

Also, they havent actually blocked from doing it, so it feels like staying is the lesser evil.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Its illegal to record someone without their consent.

I believe that depends on the state. Most have 'one party consent' laws for recording conversation. The exceptions, i.e. states where it is illegal to make a recording without the consent of all parties, are: California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and D.C..

If you're conducting any sort of business with someone while living in a 'one party consent' state it's just good practice to make a recording of your conversations. This protects you from potential disputes down the line.

I mean, if I needed the money badly Id probably just tow the company line. Depends on the scenario and how bad off I am, I suppose.

I think alot of people missed the part where you cant take legal action against the boss <_<

JTilly posted...

I mean, if I needed the money badly Id probably just tow the company line. Depends on the scenario and how bad off I am, I suppose.

I think alot of people missed the part where you cant take legal action against the boss <_<

Most people said expose. Might night be legal action but people would be up in arms about it.

Glob posted...

told me that I should refrain from hiring black teachers

I mean, if this is on record it is clearly illegal in the US. Generally speaking though, unless it was recorded from a group call or other setting with multiple people as the audience you'd likely lose your job and face extra hurdles being hired elsewhere when your involvement comes up afterward. Prospective employers would view you as 'trouble' from that point onward. If you can get a record of that viewpoint being expressed to a group you could also leak it to the media and have public scrutiny placed on the school board. Admittedly the effectiveness of that would depend on where you live. E.g. if you're in Alabama or something there might not be much pushback.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Most people said expose. Might night be legal action but people would be up in arms about it.

I doubt they would. They should be, but I really dont think it would create any major problems for him.

DuneMan posted...

I mean, if this is on record it is clearly illegal in the US. Generally speaking though, unless it was recorded from a group call or other setting with multiple people as the audience you'd likely lose your job and face extra hurdles being hired elsewhere when your involvement comes up afterward. Prospective employers would view you as 'trouble' from that point onward. If you can get a record of that viewpoint being expressed to a group you could also leak it to the media and have public scrutiny placed on the school board. Admittedly the effectiveness of that would depend on where you live. E.g. if you're in Alabama or something there might not be much pushback.

Yeah, I dont think hed get into much shit for it.

However, Ive been a whistleblower at a previous school so I really dont want to have to do that again if I can help it. Ive got a pretty sweet set up at the moment, and I could get it elsewhere fairly easily, but if I went down that road it could really sabotage me.

To note my mom did sue a place doe discrimination cause they said they wanted to hire a man and I was her only witness so not a good witness

They settled out of court with her but it being a county government job she got barred from applying to any county jobs

Sufferedphoenix posted...

To note my mom did sue a place doe discrimination cause they said they wanted to hire a man and I was her only witness so not a good witness

They settled out of court with her but it being a county government job she got barred from applying to any county jobs

Which in itself should be illegal. You should not be discriminated against because you fucking exposed illegal behaviour.

But we live in a dystopia and failed society, so unfortunately thats how it works.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Which in itself should be illegal. You should not be discriminated against because you fucking exposed illegal behaviour.

But we live in a dystopia and failed society, so unfortunately thats how it works.

Think it was part of the settlement agreement and her attorney advised her to take it because she really didn't have any proof

Glob posted...

They feel like their clients want white teachers for their children is the reason I was given.

Me: I'm sorry, but the boss said only to hire white people.
Applicant: That's racist!
Me: It is.
Applicant: I'm going to sue you!
Me: I hope you win.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Think it was part of the settlement agreement and her attorney advised her to take it because she really didn't have any proof

Nah, the settling out of court part is fair. But having it affect her future employment prospects is top tier bullshit.

008Zulu posted...

Me: I'm sorry, but the boss said only to hire white people.
Applicant: That's racist!
Me: It is.
Applicant: I'm going to sue you!
Me: I hope you win.

Unfortunately, I dont think theyd have any chance. A foreigner suing a Vietnamese company in Vietnam, especially one with such deep pockets, wouldnt end well for them.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Nah, the settling out of court part is fair. But having it affect her future employment prospects is top tier bullshit.

I was saying I think it was part of the agreement to settle out of cour.

But yeah whole ordeal was bullshit. She volunteered at that animal shelter for 2 weeks and they knew she was doing in hopes of getting the paid job. Basically ya k kw showing them she could do the job

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I was saying I think it was part of the agreement to settle out of cour.

But yeah whole ordeal was bullshit. She volunteered at that animal shelter for 2 weeks and they knew she was doing in hopes of getting the paid job. Basically ya k kw showing them she could do the job

Yeah, I cant really comment further because I wasnt there and even if I was, the lawyer(s) and judge involved obviously outrank me on the matter. Sucks overall though.

Quit on the spot.

JoeDangIt posted...

Quit on the spot.

To what end? How does that change anything?

Dark_Arbron posted...

Its illegal to record someone without their consent. Unless youre FBI engaging in wire tapping of course, but even then, its still illegal on paper - they just dont get punished for it because western countries totally be free and democratic yo.

The legalities vary in the US from state to state.

jumi posted...

The legalities vary in the US from state to state.

Yeah, and I dont even know what state that lawsuit took place in. But I shouldve figured it would vary. The more you know.

jumi posted...

The legalities vary in the US from state to state.

That may be true, but the situation Im talking about was not in the US.

If it's any group or groups other than white i'd be outraged.

If it's white people obviously I wouldn't mind.

That's the "correct" answer right?

Wandering__Hero posted...

If it's any group or groups other than white i'd be outraged.

If it's white people obviously I wouldn't mind.

That's the "correct" answer right?

Um, no.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


It also has traffic laws but you wouldnt know it.

Oh, the teaching thing.

Yeah, its true. Those companies have clients who only want white people teaching English. Its stupid. The company doesnt really like this rule, but they follow the client. Its dumb.

You arent gonna be able to sue them or bust them for anything though. It isnt the US.

Its best if just tell them why a non-white is worth hiring.

Honestly, as long as they are a native speaker, who can actually teach, it is all you need.

IF this is about say, a Filipino born in the Philippines trying to teach English, that is a tricky area, because even though they went to school, they lack cultural context and well, nativeness. That is a fair grounds for not hiring.

So basically, find out if it is because of the clients, if boss is actually racist, or if they just want people who are native speakers.

Like in what sense, look for more candidates of X, or "hire this particular person without review because he fits the checkbox"?

The first seems normal enough. I'm pretty sure the latter is expressly banned by HR.

_____Cait posted...

Oh, the teaching thing.

Yeah, its true. Those companies have clients who only want white people teaching English. Its stupid. The company doesnt really like this rule, but they follow the client. Its dumb.

You arent gonna be able to sue them or bust them for anything though. It isnt the US.

Its best if just tell them why a non-white is worth hiring.

Honestly, as long as they are a native speaker, who can actually teach, it is all you need.

IF this is about say, a Filipino born in the Philippines trying to teach English, that is a tricky area, because even though they went to school, they lack cultural context and well, nativeness. That is a fair grounds for not hiring.

So basically, find out if it is because of the clients, if boss is actually racist, or if they just want people who are native speakers.

Its not TEFL teaching. Were not just teaching them English.

As I said though, Ive already hired two black people since that conversation, and my contract was renewed afterwards, so I think I just needed to call their bluff.

Voidgolem posted...

Like in what sense, look for more candidates of X, or "hire this particular person without review because he fits the checkbox"?

The first seems normal enough. I'm pretty sure the latter is expressly banned by HR.

Its neither, really. Its more even if theyre capable of doing the job, you shouldnt hire them if theyre black because some of the parents of kids we teach are racist.

Wandering__Hero posted...

If it's any group or groups other than white i'd be outraged.

If it's white people obviously I wouldn't mind.

That's the "correct" answer right?

Trying to get a job at Kotaku, are you?

Glob posted...

Its neither, really. Its more even if theyre capable of doing the job, you shouldnt hire them if theyre black because some of the parents of kids we teach are racist.

That would get us hyper sued. I'd report that request via the normal reporting channels.

008Zulu posted...

Me: I'm sorry, but the boss said only to hire white people.
Applicant: That's racist!
Me: It is.
Applicant: I'm going to sue you!
Me: I hope you win.

I'd add that I would testify against my boss.

DuneMan posted...

Trying to get a job at Kotaku, are you?

Na. EA

I'd probably do the same thing I always do when my boss tells me to do something I don't agree with.

Just do what I think is the best course of action, in this case, hire the person I'd consider best choice for the job and make sure I have a convincing argument as to why I did something else

I'd say "Come again?" and then I'd laugh because I said "come."

Glob posted...

Unfortunately, I dont think theyd have any chance. A foreigner suing a Vietnamese company in Vietnam, especially one with such deep pockets, wouldnt end well for them.

When did Vietnam enter the equation?

008Zulu posted...

When did Vietnam enter the equation?

That person lives there

ironman2009 posted...

That person lives there

Post #1 said absolutely squat regarding locations.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I'd grin and bear it till I found another job

Two weeks notice..

Try to get some kind of proof in writing, hire someone off that ethnicity and pray that they are dumb enough to do something retaliatory.

008Zulu posted...

Post #1 said absolutely squat regarding locations.

Yeah, think it just means where you are located.

I would be working on my resum that night, applying for new jobs until I get them, and then cite racism as the reason I wanted to leave my current position when asked at interviews.