Current Events > Do you believe in a god/gods/other spiritual beings?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Enclave posted...

But he's totally cool with slavery.

slavery was part and parcel of society in the time Quran was revealed. Quran never advocated the case for slavery; humans did. Youre rewarded for freeing a slave in Islam.

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Ok now were getting somewhere. So matter and energy compressed into a singularity and expanding very quickly. Where did energy and matter that gave rise to all of this come from?

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*lead paint stare*

...butwereyouthere?

falayyou01 posted...

God didnt come from anywhere. God is eternal. Where did the Big Bang come from? There had to be a first cause. I cannot make a determination as to who God will or will not punish. What I do know is that everyone will be given a fair choice in life to believe, or disbelieve. What God does with disbelievers is up to God. Youre given intuition, time and mental faculties to logically come to the correct conclusion as to what the correct conception of God is. If you decide thats inconvenient and youd rather not because God hasnt shown himself to you and isnt testable through empirical evidence or science youre doing yourself a great disservice.

Why can't the universe be eternal? Why does it have to have a start?

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Im getting assaulted from all sides here I dont have time to go into every single post.

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I would be interested, you can private message me some stuff to read, but preferably watch.

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I dont really understand this. How did the singularity high in quantum energy come about?

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Not the exact title, but man I loved that movie.

Prestoff posted...

I would be interested, you can private message me some stuff to read, but preferably watch.

I seem to remember a good lecture from Lawrence Krauss about it, but I went to look it up earlier and found out he's apparently a sex pest and a scumbag, so... you know... that's awesome.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNIwlRClHsQ

i cant say I follow but its interesting nonetheless. For me the ultimate point is as humans we should humble ourselves and understand that theres limits to what well be able to comprehend about this universe and explain through science alone. Thats where metaphysics comes in I suppose.

regarding the problem of evil, I believe that this life is a test and humans are granted free will within the parameters defined by God as part of this test. Evil exists because it wouldnt be a test otherwise. And only God knows what the results of the test are.

Has falay really been bs'ing for 8 pages?

falayyou01 posted...

i cant say I follow but its interesting nonetheless. For me the ultimate point is as humans we should humble ourselves and understand that theres limits to what well be able to comprehend about this universe and explain through science alone. Thats where metaphysics comes in I suppose.

regarding the problem of evil, I believe that this life is a test and humans are granted free will within the parameters defined by God as part of this test. Evil exists because it wouldnt be a test otherwise. And only God knows what the results of the test are.

It just seems bizarre to me that an all knowing, just, and merciful God would put people here and allow evil, abominable things to happen just to test them.

spriga posted...

Has falay really been bs'ing for 8 pages?

yeah, i stopped caring when we got to apologetics 101 and paragraphs of shit fresh out of their ass.

falayyou01 posted...

There's only one God and I think he'd pat me on the back for giving it an earnest effort instead of throwing in the towel and saying I don't and can't know my ass from my ankle.

How do you know though? You could be completely wrong and you'll have no idea until it's too late because you only have hope and faith that you are correct.

falayyou01 posted...

There are four types of evidence used to prove or disprove facts:

* Real evidence.
* Demonstrative evidence.
* Documentary evidence.
* Testimonial evidence.

People testify that ghosts and Bigfoot are real. Are they right because they insist they are? This goes back to: Do you believe that everything that could possibly be imagined is real regardless of whether or not that there is hard evidence of it?

I bet the billions of aliens out there are arguing about and pondering these same questions.

Why would an omniscient God need to test us? He already knows us completely. Why would an omnipotent God create a universe where evil can exist because "free will?" Couldn't he create a universe of free will devoid of evil if he's omnipotent?

https://i.imgur.com/j4kmyBn.jpg

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Funny meme but no.

Humans ARE important. What we do with our abilities and our unique position on this planet IS important. We have an obligation to do right by others, and create a harmonious society, and to treat the earth we live on with respect.
You believe this as much as i do.

So the question is why do YOU believe this. Because the theist will tell you this was the will of man as ordained by a creator. What does the atheist say? Because its just as egotistical to derige such a conclusion from yourself, than it is to derived it from a God.

Toonstrack posted...

Funny meme but no.

Humans ARE important. What we do with our abilities and our unique position on this planet IS important. We have an obligation to do right by others, and create a harmonious society, and to treat the earth we live on with respect.
You believe this as much as i do.

So the question is why do YOU believe this. Because the theist will tell you this was the will of man as ordained by a creator. What does the atheist say? Because its just as egotistical to derige such a conclusion from yourself, than it is to derived it from a God.

What do you mean "what does the atheist say" - it appears he said it with that image and you didn't like it what it had to say about your beliefs.

Setting aside your notion that atheism is monolithic for a moment, "the atheist says" your magical humanoid (we are created in his image in your lore) universe creator and personal sexual activity monitor is not a very plausible or reasonable proposition to explain the creation of the universe.

Torgo posted...

What do you mean "what does the atheist say" - it appears he said it with that image and you didn't like it what it had to say about your beliefs.

I wasn't even responding to the individual who posted the image.

The question is why does the atheist believe all of those things i said. Because most atheists DO have moral standings, they may not be "dont masturbate lol" but they are deemed important, crucial even.

So no, the atheist did not answer the question with that image, that image only serves to make the question far more pressing, becayse that image is accurate. We are bur specks in the vast universe. How does the atheist argue for morals in light of that? How can the atheist argue that our morals and our virtues are important whisle arguing that we ourselves aren't?

Setting aside your notion that atheism is monolithic for a moment,

Never said this.

"the atheist says

You didn't answer the question, because you didn't understand the question, because you didn't pay attention to what was asked. Has nothing to do with gods existence.

You've really gotta stop running in guns blazing looking for gotchas without even bothering to get context.

Toonstrack posted...

So no, the atheist did not answer the question with that image, that image only serves to make the question far more pressing, becayse that image is accurate. We are bur specks in the vast universe. How does the atheist argue for morals in light of that? How can the atheist argue that our morals and our virtues are important whisle arguing that we ourselves aren't?

First, which atheist? Atheism isn't a monolith. If you want to know a person's views, ask that person specifically. Literally the only unifying quality of atheism is a lack of belief in a god(s), everything else is up to the individual.

Second, didn't we go over this a few pages ago? Important to who? Not everyone values the same stuff.

Toonstrack posted...

The question is why does the atheist believe all of those things i said. Because most atheists DO have moral standings, they may not be "dont masturbate lol" but they are deemed important, crucial even.

Yes, almost all humans are capable of creating and understanding moral standards. The different between theists and non-religious people is the theist derives all their morals from a book, and then re-interpretations of that book that shift to suit the agenda of church leadership. While atheists use philosophical and moral writings, history, the examples and teachings of people in their lives, and their lived experience.

The reason "don't kill people" is important to an atheist is because we have empathy and experience understanding the pain of loss coupled with a sense of justice that can be learned expressing a right to continue to live. We also understand that murder is harmful to society and makes us all unsafe unless we act to criminalize it.

The reason a theist gives for "don't masturbate" is because it says it in an ancient book.

Toonstrack posted...

So no, the atheist did not answer the question with that image, that image only serves to make the question far more pressing, becayse that image is accurate. We are bur specks in the vast universe. How does the atheist argue for morals in light of that? How can the atheist argue that our morals and our virtues are important whisle arguing that we ourselves aren't?

Perspective bro... not everything is this binary lightswitch as religion has conditioned your brain into seeing it.

Yeah... literally in the grand scope of the universe and in the far reaches of time we are a bunch of frightened little organisms trying to survive on a speck circling one of billions of stars in thousands of galaxies...

But it still matters that I treat others kindly. Because while light years away stars too big to contemplate explode and release energy a that could destroy a million earths... I will remember the person that did something nice for me or my neighbor.

On the other hand, this life is just dirty rags before the real eternal life in your God's glory right? This is just a test to see if you adhere to the behavior modification program god made for you and get your real life in heaven or get sent to the eternal human torture and suffering dimension.

If anything, it's the theist that sees this life and morality as nothing but a series of vague tests and traps to avoid for the real deal later... while an atheist actually cares about this life and it's consequences to those they meet and live with now.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e10a8e8d.jpg

Torgo posted...

Yes, almost all humans are capable of creating and understanding moral standards. The different between theists and non-religious people is the theist derives all their morals from a book, and then re-interpretations of that book that shift to suit the agenda of church leadership. While atheists use philosophical and moral writings, history, the examples and teachings of people in their lives, and their lived experience.

The reason "don't kill people" is important to an atheist is because we have empathy and experience understanding the pain of loss coupled with a sense of justice that can be learned expressing a right to continue to live. We also understand that murder is harmful to society and makes us all unsafe unless we act to criminalize it.

The reason a theist gives for "don't masturbate" is because it says it in an ancient book.

Murder is an obvious one everyone can agree on but like, what about where there's differences of opinion on murky topics other than murder where consensus opinion on norms change throughout history (e.g. capital punishment). What's the authority that says "this is good for society" or "this is bad for society" ? If you believe in subjective morality, there is no central authority and we all just go with the flow and do what kinda seems good but may not be or in fact may be. Do you necessarily define all values adopted by developed nations with higher levels of education (just as an example) as "good" and other less developed nations values as "bad"?

reincarnator07 posted...

First, which atheist? Atheism isn't a monolith. If you want to know a person's views,

The individual i responded to made their stance clear all on their own.

"Its ego to suggest a God would care about us tiny specks in the universe"

Which pecks the question, then why should WE.

Second, didn't we go over this a few pages ago? Important to who?

The person i was responding to is someone ive encountered many times. She considers many matters, such as social justice ones, of high importance.

I was directly addressing an individual here.

Torgo posted...

Yes, almost all humans are capable of creating and understanding moral standards. The different between theists and non-religious people is the theist derives all their morals from a book, and then re-interpretations of that book that shift to suit the agenda of church leadership. While atheists use philosophical and moral writings

So... books?

The reason "don't kill people" is important to an atheist is because we have empathy and experience understanding the pain of loss coupled with a sense of justice that can be learned expressing a right to continue to live. We also understand that murder is harmful to society and makes us all unsafe unless we act to criminalize it.

Ok, but that image says that society is unimportant and insignificant. That image says that in the grand scheme of things none of that matters, it just hyperfocuses on the topic of masturbation bit you can replace Jesus in that image, and replace the text with anything and it would still be acute in a sense.

So again, what makes YOUR thing important, and is it not ego to suggest it is when we humans are so tiny, so insignificant? Why is it only ego when its based around a diety?

That's the question.

Torgo posted...

Perspective bro... not everything is this binary lightswitch as religion has conditioned your brain into seeing it.

No no no, no. Im not asusmng a perspective here "bro", im using the perspective the very image posted has.

You can't just arbitrarily shift from that perspective when its convenient for your argument.

So let's take it back to that picture of rhe universe and stay there because thats the perspective we're discussing.

Yeah... literally in the grand scope of the universe and in the far reaches of time we are a bunch of frightened little organisms trying to survive on a speck circling one of billions of stars in thousands of galaxies...

But it still matters that I treat others kindly. Because while light years away stars too big to contemplate explode and release energy a that could destroy a million earths... I will remember the person that did something nice for me or my neighbor.

Is that not ego? Your memory is not any more relevant than a theists faith. Your values don't become more valid or important because it's based on a similar delusio of grandeur. You snd a theist are both going toward the same end every other human does.

*grandstanding removed*

an atheist actually cares about this life and it's consequences to those they meet and live with now.

Now who's making generalizations about atheists?

I've encountered plenty who do the exact opposite of this. They say "nothing matters, we are nothing, the universe is without a care for us, no one made us and we aren't going anywhere but oblivion, so I will do only what I want, serve only myself, and no one else's regard matters because no one else matters, and I dont matter to anyone but myself. "

Surely you've encountered such an individual too. What makes your position more valid than theirs?

falayyou01 posted...

Murder is an obvious one everyone can agree on but like, what about where there's differences of opinion on murky topics other than murder where consensus opinion on norms change throughout history (e.g. capital punishment). What's the authority that says "this is good for society" or "this is bad for society" ? If you believe in subjective morality with no central authority then we all just kind of go with the flow and do what seems good but may not be or in fact may be. Do you necessarily define all values adopted by developed nations with higher levels of education (just as an example) as "good" and other less developed nations values as "bad"? Is the goodness of values dictated by levels of economic advancement ? Its level religiosity or lack thereof? Who decides on that?

There kinda... isn't much consensus on many things. Look how much the USA flips when an opposing party gets into power. Hell, murder isn't even a settled thing, look how many places still have the death penalty. Being a more developed or educated country doesn't automatically make them right or even desirable either. Morality is complicated AF and I would doubt literally anyone who just takes a blanket approach.

Toonstrack posted...
If you want to talk to specific people, at least do them the courtesy of using their names rather than "The atheist".

The individual i responded to made their stance clear all on their own.

"Its ego to suggest a God would care about us tiny specks in the universe"

Which pecks the question, then why should WE.

Because we are those tiny specks! Surely it's not hard to understand that most people value themselves? I imagine you place far more weight on your views and priorities over those of my friend, purely because you are you but you don't even know my friend exists.

reincarnator07 posted...

If you want to talk to specific people, at least do them the courtesy of using their names rather than "The atheist".

Because we are those tiny specks! Surely it's not hard to understand that most people value themselves?

Theres a huge difference between an individual valuing themselves and an individual valuing humanity as a collective. Plenty of terrible, awful people value themselves. Thats not a high moral standing, nor is it a justification for morality towards the collective.

Toonstrack posted...

Theres a huge difference between an individual valuing themselves and an individual valuing humanity as a collective. Plenty of terrible, awful people value themselves. Thats not a high moral standing, nor is it a justification for morality towards the collective.

I... never said it was moral or immoral to value ones self or group.

Even as tiny specks in the universe we were put on this planet and in this world for a reason: to serve God.

Mew posted...

Even as tiny specks in the universe we were put on this planet and in this world for a reason: to serve God.

I thought your purpose was just to shit on pitbulls every post...

Onto page 9!