other spiritual beings?

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Deutschenlied 03/05/24 8:56:55 AM #301:	falayyou01 posted... my issue is with naturalist doctrine which a lot of scientists implicitly follow, whether they acknowledge it or not. Assuming natural laws are the only laws that govern the universe is pure ignorance and anyone who subscribes to that notion is ignorant because theyre excluding the possibility of the spiritual / supernatural elements, which lie beyond the realm of understanding, but nevertheless remains a key aspect of civilizations throughout history. Why? Why do we need to actively believe in the possibility of the supernatural? Why can't we just know what we know at any point in time, not know stuff that can't be known and that be good enough? "The books say they are truth and there must be more than nature" Why? Humans are odd. Many of us are so ignorant, yet we created religion because we are too proud to admit ignorance. We always have to fill the gaps in our knowledge with supernatural instead of going "I don't know right now." Everything we know now was once unknowable and beyond our collective understanding. We don't need to rush and have all the answers now. There is no reason to go beyond logic and nature. Why believe in anything? You can't actually explain what makes the Quran or the Bible more real than The Lord of the Rings. So should I actively live with the possibility that Sauron is real, or should I just live as if all unknown, unseen things are not real until they are proven by facts and logic to be real? What makes the contemporary religions so special? --- hockeybabe89 <cite>Deutschenlied posted [p:979197880] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>my issue is with naturalist doctrine which a lot of scientists implicitly follow, whether they acknowledge it or not. Assuming natural laws are the only laws that govern the universe is pure ignorance and anyone who subscribes to that notion is ignorant because theyre excluding the possibility of the spiritual / supernatural elements, which lie beyond the realm of understanding, but nevertheless remains a key aspect of civilizations throughout history.</quote>Why? Why do we need to actively believe in the possibility of the supernatural? Why can't we just know what we know at any point in time, not know stuff that can't be known and that be good enough?"The books say they are truth and there must be more than nature" Why? Humans are odd. Many of us are so ignorant, yet we created religion because we are too proud to admit ignorance. We always have to fill the gaps in our knowledge with supernatural instead of going "I don't know right now." Everything we know now was once unknowable and beyond our collective understanding. We don't need to rush and have all the answers now.There is no reason to go beyond logic and nature. Why believe in anything? You can't actually explain what makes the Quran or the Bible more real than The Lord of the Rings. So should I actively live with the possibility that Sauron is real, or should I just live as if all unknown, unseen things are not real until they are proven by facts and logic to be real? What makes the contemporary religions so special? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 9:03:44 AM #302:	falayyou01 posted... By ignoring the issue of God, naturalist philosophy and many scientists are implicitly saying theres no God, if not explicitly. What? No, that's not how science works. When you're testing something, you're testing that thing specifically. For example, if I wanted to test the effects of gravity then I wouldn't do it outside, as there's tons of other things that could affect my results. On top of that, those results would only really be useful if we were talking about gravity, it would mean nothing for the field of biology. That doesn't mean biology isn't a thing, it just means that the results have no relevance. Lets reframe this in terms of probabilities. Theres only two possibilities here; either God exists or he doesnt. If you had to stake your life on it which do you think the more likely scenario in light of everything youve experienced throughout your life? This is Pascal's Wager and has already been debunked. I have to assume you've really not looked into theology all that much at this point... Your premise is flawed, there are more than 2 possibilities. There could be no god. There could be your god. There could be the gods of something like 10,000 religions throughout human history, to say nothing of smaller beliefs. There could be a god that no one has yet interacted with. Many of these are exclusive and will punish you for picking the wrong one even worse than they punish atheists and agnostics. Where do you think the universe came from? Nothing? I don't know, but I also don't claim to know. The Big Bang appears to be the beginning of time and space as we know it, but we have no idea what was there before that or if there even was a before that. Where did your god come from? --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979197960] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>By ignoring the issue of God, naturalist philosophy and many scientists are implicitly saying theres no God, if not explicitly.</quote>What? No, that's not how science works. When you're testing something, you're testing that thing specifically. For example, if I wanted to test the effects of gravity then I wouldn't do it outside, as there's tons of other things that could affect my results. On top of that, those results would only really be useful if we were talking about gravity, it would mean nothing for the field of biology. That doesn't mean biology isn't a thing, it just means that the results have no relevance.<quote>Lets reframe this in terms of probabilities. Theres only two possibilities here; either God exists or he doesnt. If you had to stake your life on it which do you think the more likely scenario in light of everything youve experienced throughout your life? </quote>This is Pascal's Wager and has already been debunked. I have to assume you've really not looked into theology all that much at this point...Your premise is flawed, there are more than 2 possibilities. There could be no god. There could be your god. There could be the gods of something like 10,000 religions throughout human history, to say nothing of smaller beliefs. There could be a god that no one has yet interacted with. Many of these are exclusive and will punish you for picking the wrong one even worse than they punish atheists and agnostics.<quote>Where do you think the universe came from? Nothing?</quote>I don't know, but I also don't claim to know. The Big Bang appears to be the beginning of time and space as we know it, but we have no idea what was there before that or if there even was a before that.Where did your god come from? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DarthAragorn 03/05/24 9:43:23 AM #304:	No, because look at all this shit lol --- Asus ROG Strix Z790-E \| Core i9-13900k \| 64GB DDR5-6000 \| RTX 4090 24GB Dell AW3423DW QD-OLED - 1440p Ultrawide, 175hz, GSync <cite>DarthAragorn posted [p:979198401] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>No, because look at all this shit lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 10:01:31 AM #305:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] So youre not discounting the possibility of God existing then, even though it cant be tested or observed and therefore falls outside the purview of science? --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979198649] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> So youre not discounting the possibility of God existing then, even though it cant be tested or observed and therefore falls outside the purview of science? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ai123 03/05/24 10:23:51 AM #307:	falayyou01 posted... Where do you think the universe came from? Nothing? Don't you believe God created the universe ex nihilo? Incidentally, something from nothing has been achieved experimentally by man. --- 'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'. <cite>ai123 posted [p:979198918] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Where do you think the universe came from? Nothing?</quote>Don't you believe God created the universe ex nihilo?Incidentally, something from nothing has been achieved experimentally by man. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 10:32:42 AM #308:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] On point 2, isnt not considering something implicitly making the assumption that God doesnt exist (in essence rejecting God) though because God, not being testable or observable falls outside of science purview? --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979199039] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> On point 2, isnt not considering something implicitly making the assumption that God doesnt exist (in essence rejecting God) though because God, not being testable or observable falls outside of science purview? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Heineken14 03/05/24 11:24:27 AM #310:	falayyou01 posted... Theres only two possibilities here; either God exists or he doesnt. No there aren't. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979199859] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Theres only two possibilities here; either God exists or he doesnt.</quote>No there aren't. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 11:33:12 AM #311:	falayyou01 posted... On point 2, isnt not considering something implicitly making the assumption that God doesnt exist (in essence rejecting God) though because God, not being testable or observable falls outside of science purview? No, it's merely not considering it. If I want to measure how far I can throw a ball, I'm not gonna consider how far you can throw it. It doesn't mean you don't exist or can't throw it, it just has no relevance to how far I can throw it. --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979200040] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>On point 2, isnt not considering something implicitly making the assumption that God doesnt exist (in essence rejecting God) though because God, not being testable or observable falls outside of science purview?</quote>No, it's merely not considering it. If I want to measure how far I can throw a ball, I'm not gonna consider how far you can throw it. It doesn't mean you don't exist or can't throw it, it just has no relevance to how far I can throw it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkDoc 03/05/24 1:11:57 PM #312:	It's for idiots <cite>DarkDoc posted [p:979201752] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>It's for idiots</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 2:26:01 PM #313:	reincarnator07 posted... What? No, that's not how science works. When you're testing something, you're testing that thing specifically. For example, if I wanted to test the effects of gravity then I wouldn't do it outside, as there's tons of other things that could affect my results. On top of that, those results would only really be useful if we were talking about gravity, it would mean nothing for the field of biology. That doesn't mean biology isn't a thing, it just means that the results have no relevance. This is Pascal's Wager and has already been debunked. I have to assume you've really not looked into theology all that much at this point... Your premise is flawed, there are more than 2 possibilities. There could be no god. There could be your god. There could be the gods of something like 10,000 religions throughout human history, to say nothing of smaller beliefs. There could be a god that no one has yet interacted with. Many of these are exclusive and will punish you for picking the wrong one even worse than they punish atheists and agnostics. I don't know, but I also don't claim to know. The Big Bang appears to be the beginning of time and space as we know it, but we have no idea what was there before that or if there even was a before that. Where did your god come from? God didnt come from anywhere. God is eternal. Where did the Big Bang come from? There had to be a first cause. I cannot make a determination as to who God will or will not punish. What I do know is that everyone will be given a fair choice in life to believe, or disbelieve. What God does with disbelievers is up to God. Youre given intuition, time and mental faculties to logically come to the correct conclusion as to what the correct conception of God is. If you decide thats inconvenient and youd rather not because God hasnt shown himself to you and isnt testable through empirical evidence or science youre doing yourself a great disservice. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203051] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>reincarnator07 posted... </cite><quote>What? No, that's not how science works. When you're testing something, you're testing that thing specifically. For example, if I wanted to test the effects of gravity then I wouldn't do it outside, as there's tons of other things that could affect my results. On top of that, those results would only really be useful if we were talking about gravity, it would mean nothing for the field of biology. That doesn't mean biology isn't a thing, it just means that the results have no relevance.This is Pascal's Wager and has already been debunked. I have to assume you've really not looked into theology all that much at this point...Your premise is flawed, there are more than 2 possibilities. There could be no god. There could be your god. There could be the gods of something like 10,000 religions throughout human history, to say nothing of smaller beliefs. There could be a god that no one has yet interacted with. Many of these are exclusive and will punish you for picking the wrong one even worse than they punish atheists and agnostics.I don't know, but I also don't claim to know. The Big Bang appears to be the beginning of time and space as we know it, but we have no idea what was there before that or if there even was a before that.Where did your god come from?</quote>God didnt come from anywhere. God is eternal. Where did the Big Bang come from? There had to be a first cause. I cannot make a determination as to who God will or will not punish. What I do know is that everyone will be given a fair choice in life to believe, or disbelieve. What God does with disbelievers is up to God. Youre given intuition, time and mental faculties to logically come to the correct conclusion as to what the correct conception of God is. If you decide thats inconvenient and youd rather not because God hasnt shown himself to you and isnt testable through empirical evidence or science youre doing yourself a great disservice. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 2:40:32 PM #314:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Ok but empirical evidence isn't the only kind of evidence and science isn't the only form of knowledge; there's epistemology, metaphysics and consciousness and subjective experience so why should I care only about the scientific method? --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203313] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> Ok but empirical evidence isn't the only kind of evidence and science isn't the only form of knowledge; there's epistemology, metaphysics and consciousness and subjective experience so why should I care only about the scientific method? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Deutschenlied 03/05/24 2:43:12 PM #315:	falayyou01 posted... Ok but empirical evidence isn't the only kind of evidence and science isn't the only form of knowledge; there's the realm of metaphysics and consciousness and subjective experience so why should I care? Why isn't it the only evidence? You keep insisting there have to be things that we just trust to be true despite being unable to sense. Why? --- hockeybabe89 <cite>Deutschenlied posted [p:979203366] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Ok but empirical evidence isn't the only kind of evidence and science isn't the only form of knowledge; there's the realm of metaphysics and consciousness and subjective experience so why should I care?</quote>Why isn't it the only evidence? You keep insisting there have to be things that we just trust to be true despite being unable to sense. Why? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 2:45:43 PM #316:	falayyou01 posted... Where did the Big Bang come from? The big bang was eternal, it doesn't have to have an origin. It always was. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979203431] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Where did the Big Bang come from?</quote>The big bang was eternal, it doesn't have to have an origin. It always was. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Deutschenlied 03/05/24 2:49:08 PM #317:	@falayyou01 is gonna feel really silly when he's stuck in hell because he picked the wrong god and the real god is pissed --- hockeybabe89 <cite>Deutschenlied posted [p:979203496] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>@falayyou01 is gonna feel really silly when he's stuck in hell because he picked the wrong god and the real god is pissed </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 2:50:55 PM #318:	Deutschenlied posted... is gonna feel really silly when he's stuck in hell because he picked the wrong god and the real god is pissed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thsyoUZW9vE --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979203537] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Deutschenlied posted... </cite><quote>is gonna feel really silly when he's stuck in hell because he picked the wrong god and the real god is pissed</quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thsyoUZW9vE </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 2:52:44 PM #319:	Deutschenlied posted... @falayyou01 is gonna feel really silly when he's stuck in hell because he picked the wrong god and the real god is pissed There's only one God and I think he'd pat me on the back for giving it an earnest effort instead of throwing in the towel and saying I don't and can't know my ass from my ankle. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203566] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Deutschenlied posted... </cite><quote>@falayyou01 is gonna feel really silly when he's stuck in hell because he picked the wrong god and the real god is pissed</quote>There's only one God and I think he'd pat me on the back for giving it an earnest effort instead of throwing in the towel and saying I don't and can't know my ass from my ankle. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 2:57:07 PM #320:	Heineken14 posted... The big bang was eternal, it doesn't have to have an origin. It always was. What is the Big Bang? --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203625] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>The big bang was eternal, it doesn't have to have an origin. It always was.</quote>What is the Big Bang? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sheiky-Baby 03/05/24 3:00:20 PM #321:	falayyou01 posted... What is the Big Bang? What actually caused the big bang https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3f16b049.jpg --- "Make pain your best friend, and you'll never be alone." <cite>Sheiky-Baby posted [p:979203682] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>What is the Big Bang?</quote>What actually caused the big banghttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3f16b049.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:02:41 PM #322:	Deutschenlied posted... Why isn't it the only evidence? You keep insisting there have to be things that we just trust to be true despite being unable to sense. Why? There are four types of evidence used to prove or disprove facts: Real evidence. Demonstrative evidence. Documentary evidence. Testimonial evidence. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203717] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Deutschenlied posted... </cite><quote>Why isn't it the only evidence? You keep insisting there have to be things that we just trust to be true despite being unable to sense. Why?</quote>There are four types of evidence used to prove or disprove facts:Real evidence.Demonstrative evidence.Documentary evidence.Testimonial evidence. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:02:59 PM #323:	falayyou01 posted... What is the Big Bang? The beginning of everything. Before it there was nothing. No us, no matter, no air, no space, no gods, nothing. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979203723] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>What is the Big Bang?</quote>The beginning of everything. Before it there was nothing. No us, no matter, no air, no space, no gods, nothing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:06:26 PM #324:	Heineken14 posted... The beginning of everything. Before it there was nothing. No us, no matter, no air, no space, no gods, nothing. What is it though? Did you see it? --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203779] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>The beginning of everything. Before it there was nothing. No us, no matter, no air, no space, no gods, nothing.</quote>What is it though? Did you see it? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:06:52 PM #325:	falayyou01 posted... There are four types of evidence used to prove or disprove facts: * Real evidence. * Demonstrative evidence. * Documentary evidence. * Testimonial evidence. Yeah, the religious argument of "just trust me bro" would be absolutely shredded in court on the most simplest of questioning. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979203783] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>There are four types of evidence used to prove or disprove facts:* Real evidence.* Demonstrative evidence.* Documentary evidence.* Testimonial evidence.</quote>Yeah, the religious argument of "just trust me bro" would be absolutely shredded in court on the most simplest of questioning. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:08:05 PM #326:	Heineken14 posted... Yeah, the religious argument of "just trust me bro" would be absolutely shredded in court on the most simplest of questioning. It's still a form of evidence no matter how much you don't like to admit it. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203803] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>Yeah, the religious argument of "just trust me bro" would be absolutely shredded in court on the most simplest of questioning.</quote>It's still a form of evidence no matter how much you don't like to admit it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:08:55 PM #327:	falayyou01 posted... What is it though? Did you see it? I told you what it was. You don't have to see it for it to be there. It provided you millions of years of evolution to get to the point to come to the correct conclusion. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979203815] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>What is it though? Did you see it?</quote>I told you what it was. You don't have to see it for it to be there. It provided you millions of years of evolution to get to the point to come to the correct conclusion. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:14:20 PM #328:	Heineken14 posted... I told you what it was. You don't have to see it for it to be there. It provided you millions of years of evolution to get to the point to come to the correct conclusion. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203928] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>I told you what it was. You don't have to see it for it to be there. It provided you millions of years of evolution to get to the point to come to the correct conclusion. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change.</quote>I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:16:10 PM #329:	falayyou01 posted... I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. Cool. Big Bang created god. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979203969] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change.</quote>Cool. Big Bang created god. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:18:05 PM #330:	Deutschenlied posted... Why isn't it the only evidence? You keep insisting there have to be things that we just trust to be true despite being unable to sense. Why? You have intuition. Can you see or sense your brain? No, but you trust because people told you it's there. Did you see the Big Bang? No, and neither did your friend here but he's convinced it occurred because scientists smarter than him told it happened and he said "Alright sounds good - as long as it isn't God". --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979203998] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Deutschenlied posted... </cite><quote>Why isn't it the only evidence? You keep insisting there have to be things that we just trust to be true despite being unable to sense. Why?</quote>You have intuition. Can you see or sense your brain? No, but you trust because people told you it's there. Did you see the Big Bang? No, and neither did your friend here but he's convinced it occurred because scientists smarter than him told it happened and he said "Alright sounds good - as long as it isn't God". </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:19:15 PM #331:	Heineken14 posted... Cool. Big Bang created god. Jokes aside, I'm still waiting on your definition for the Big Bang. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979204018] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>Cool. Big Bang created god.</quote>Jokes aside, I'm still waiting on your definition for the Big Bang. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:22:50 PM #332:	falayyou01 posted... You have intuition. Can you see or sense your brain? No, but you trust because people told you it's there. Did you see the Big Bang? No, and neither did your friend here but he's convinced it occurred because scientists smarter than him told it happened and he said "Alright sounds good - as long as it isn't God". Before the big bang there was nothing; after everything. It's provided the evolutionary backdrop for the rise of humans. Humans who wrote and passed down stories for centuries for people like you to go "Yep, I believe this not because of compelling evidence but simply because some dudes a few thousand years ago wrote about it and I said "Alright sounds good to me!" --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979204078] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>You have intuition. Can you see or sense your brain? No, but you trust because people told you it's there. Did you see the Big Bang? No, and neither did your friend here but he's convinced it occurred because scientists smarter than him told it happened and he said "Alright sounds good - as long as it isn't God".</quote>Before the big bang there was nothing; after everything. It's provided the evolutionary backdrop for the rise of humans. Humans who wrote and passed down stories for centuries for people like you to go "Yep, I believe this not because of compelling evidence but simply because some dudes a few thousand years ago wrote about it and I said "Alright sounds good to me!" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:23:01 PM #333:	falayyou01 posted... Jokes aside, I'm still waiting on your definition for the Big Bang. I told you. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979204082] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Jokes aside, I'm still waiting on your definition for the Big Bang.</quote>I told you. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 3:23:52 PM #334:	falayyou01 posted... God didnt come from anywhere. God is eternal. Where did the Big Bang come from? There had to be a first cause. If god is eternal, then eternal things can exist. If eternal things can exist, why would god automatically be the only eternal thing? There would be no reason the universe couldn't also be eternal with that logic. This doesn't even dis/prove god, I see no reason that both god and the universe couldn't be eternal. I cannot make a determination as to who God will or will not punish. What I do know is that everyone will be given a fair choice in life to believe, or disbelieve. What God does with disbelievers is up to God. Youre given intuition, time and mental faculties to logically come to the correct conclusion as to what the correct conception of God is. If you decide thats inconvenient and youd rather not because God hasnt shown himself to you and isnt testable through empirical evidence or science youre doing yourself a great disservice. You're still assuming your god is the correct one based on nothing but faith. I encourage you to actually look up Pascal's Wager because this has all been thoroughly debunked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the god of Islam supposed to be a kind god? If that god exists and is as wise as depicted, he knows exactly what would convince me of his existence. He wouldn't have to trick me or mess with my free will, he could simply convince me, the same way I could convince you I'm drinking a can of Coke by showing compelling evidence. If he chooses not to convince me and then punishes me for being unconvinced, he would be setting me up to fail from the start, it would be a major dick move. Also, let's be real: religion in general is illogical. The entire thing is founded on faith, which by definition is lacking in evidence. A logical conclusion would be to assume nothing due to a lack of evidence. Now, I'm not so arrogant as to tell every theist that they're wrong, but their position is based purely on faith. --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979204096] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>God didnt come from anywhere. God is eternal. Where did the Big Bang come from? There had to be a first cause. </quote>If god is eternal, then eternal things can exist. If eternal things can exist, why would god automatically be the only eternal thing? There would be no reason the universe couldn't also be eternal with that logic. This doesn't even dis/prove god, I see no reason that both god and the universe couldn't be eternal.<quote>I cannot make a determination as to who God will or will not punish. What I do know is that everyone will be given a fair choice in life to believe, or disbelieve. What God does with disbelievers is up to God. Youre given intuition, time and mental faculties to logically come to the correct conclusion as to what the correct conception of God is. If you decide thats inconvenient and youd rather not because God hasnt shown himself to you and isnt testable through empirical evidence or science youre doing yourself a great disservice.</quote>You're still assuming your god is the correct one based on nothing but faith. I encourage you to actually look up Pascal's Wager because this has all been thoroughly debunked.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the god of Islam supposed to be a kind god? If that god exists and is as wise as depicted, he knows exactly what would convince me of his existence. He wouldn't have to trick me or mess with my free will, he could simply convince me, the same way I could convince you I'm drinking a can of Coke by showing compelling evidence. If he chooses not to convince me and then punishes me for being unconvinced, he would be setting me up to fail from the start, it would be a major dick move.Also, let's be real: religion in general is illogical. The entire thing is founded on faith, which by definition is lacking in evidence. A logical conclusion would be to assume nothing due to a lack of evidence. Now, I'm not so arrogant as to tell every theist that they're wrong, but their position is based purely on faith. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:26:52 PM #335:	Heineken14 posted... Before the big bang there was nothing; after everything. It's provided the evolutionary backdrop for the rise of humans. Humans who wrote and passed down stories for centuries for people like you to go "Yep, I believe this not because of compelling evidence but simply because some dudes a few thousand years ago wrote about it and I said "Alright sounds good to me!" Let's unpack this for a second. There was Nothing, which gave rise to Something called "Big Bang". I don't believe physics has so far found any confirmed instances of something arising from nothing but maybe you do. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979204135] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>Before the big bang there was nothing; after everything. It's provided the evolutionary backdrop for the rise of humans. Humans who wrote and passed down stories for centuries for people like you to go "Yep, I believe this not because of compelling evidence but simply because some dudes a few thousand years ago wrote about it and I said "Alright sounds good to me!"</quote>Let's unpack this for a second. There was Nothing, which gave rise to Something called "Big Bang". I don't believe physics has so far found any confirmed instances of something arising from nothing but maybe you do. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 3:29:40 PM #336:	falayyou01 posted... You have intuition. Can you see or sense your brain? No, but you trust because people told you it's there. Did you see the Big Bang? These are great examples of things that can be indirectly observed, actually. You can measure brain activity and there are scans that will actually show your brain. We have yet to observe a human that lives without a brain, but every human we've actually checked has a brain. Is it possible there's a human without a brain? Sure I guess, but when every other example has a brain, why would you assume you would be any different? As for the Big Bang, we observe its effects. Before I explain this, do you actually know what the Big Bang Theory is? Not the TV show, the thing the show is named after. No, and neither did your friend here but he's convinced it occurred because scientists smarter than him told it happened and he said "Alright sounds good - as long as it isn't God". The Big Bang in no way proves or disproves a god. It kinda ruins some specific beliefs like young earth creationism, but not the overall concept of a god. There's no reason that god couldn't have caused the big bang. --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979204181] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>You have intuition. Can you see or sense your brain? No, but you trust because people told you it's there. Did you see the Big Bang?</quote>These are great examples of things that can be indirectly observed, actually. You can measure brain activity and there are scans that will actually show your brain. We have yet to observe a human that lives without a brain, but every human we've actually checked has a brain. Is it possible there's a human without a brain? Sure I guess, but when every other example has a brain, why would you assume you would be any different?As for the Big Bang, we observe its effects. Before I explain this, do you actually know what the Big Bang Theory is? Not the TV show, the thing the show is named after.<quote>No, and neither did your friend here but he's convinced it occurred because scientists smarter than him told it happened and he said "Alright sounds good - as long as it isn't God".</quote>The Big Bang in no way proves or disproves a god. It kinda ruins some specific beliefs like young earth creationism, but not the overall concept of a god. There's no reason that god couldn't have caused the big bang. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ai123 03/05/24 3:31:23 PM #337:	falayyou01 posted... Let's unpack this for a second. There was Nothing, which gave rise to Something called "Big Bang". I don't believe physics has so far found any confirmed instances of something arising from nothing but maybe you do. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/ --- 'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'. <cite>ai123 posted [p:979204209] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Let's unpack this for a second. There was Nothing, which gave rise to Something called "Big Bang". I don't believe physics has so far found any confirmed instances of something arising from nothing but maybe you do.</quote>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 3:33:37 PM #338:	falayyou01 posted... I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. Just gonna pick this one quickly: God didn't create you, your parents did. That's literally how humans are made. The most logical explanation for how we exist is to say "we don't know". What is illogical is making a conclusive claim based purely on faith. --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979204244] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change.</quote>Just gonna pick this one quickly:God didn't create you, your parents did. That's literally how humans are made.The most logical explanation for how we exist is to say "we don't know". What is illogical is making a conclusive claim based purely on faith. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ssb_yunglink2 03/05/24 3:35:10 PM #339:	falayyou01 posted... I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change. You tell everyone theyre illogical and set in their ways and then just casually claim that God is the most logical conclusion for existence. Youre literally exactly what you claim everyone else is, except your only argument is God is real because I know God is real --- Hee Ho <cite>ssb_yunglink2 posted [p:979204270] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>I don't have to see God for God to be there. God created me and gave me a brain which I can reason with and decide upon the most logical conclusion for existence. Whether you choose to ignore that is not something I can change.</quote>You tell everyone theyre illogical and set in their ways and then just casually claim that God is the most logical conclusion for existence. Youre literally exactly what you claim everyone else is, except your only argument is God is real because I know God is real </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:36:56 PM #340:	reincarnator07 posted... If god is eternal, then eternal things can exist. If eternal things can exist, why would god automatically be the only eternal thing? There would be no reason the universe couldn't also be eternal with that logic. This doesn't even dis/prove god, I see no reason that both god and the universe couldn't be eternal. You're still assuming your god is the correct one based on nothing but faith. I encourage you to actually look up Pascal's Wager because this has all been thoroughly debunked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the god of Islam supposed to be a kind god? If that god exists and is as wise as depicted, he knows exactly what would convince me of his existence. He wouldn't have to trick me or mess with my free will, he could simply convince me, the same way I could convince you I'm drinking a can of Coke by showing compelling evidence. If he chooses not to convince me and then punishes me for being unconvinced, he would be setting me up to fail from the start, it would be a major dick move. Also, let's be real: religion in general is illogical. The entire thing is founded on faith, which by definition is lacking in evidence. A logical conclusion would be to assume nothing due to a lack of evidence. Now, I'm not so arrogant as to tell every theist that they're wrong, but their position is based purely on faith. We believe that God is a kind, merciful God but he is also a Just God. If I take the belief that life is a test, and a fair one at that, because it's administered by God, he wouldn't set his creation up to fail (being the most compassionate). We believe that God provides every human with a fair shot to succeed. Free will is a mechanism to divide God's creation into those who sincerely seek his guidance, mercy and compassion from those who will rebel just for the sake of it because its convenient to live abiding by one's own sense of subjective morality (divesting of the need for God and becoming your own God). God is best positioned to decide on those who fall under the latter category. --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979204290] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>reincarnator07 posted... </cite><quote>If god is eternal, then eternal things can exist. If eternal things can exist, why would god automatically be the only eternal thing? There would be no reason the universe couldn't also be eternal with that logic. This doesn't even dis/prove god, I see no reason that both god and the universe couldn't be eternal.You're still assuming your god is the correct one based on nothing but faith. I encourage you to actually look up Pascal's Wager because this has all been thoroughly debunked.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the god of Islam supposed to be a kind god? If that god exists and is as wise as depicted, he knows exactly what would convince me of his existence. He wouldn't have to trick me or mess with my free will, he could simply convince me, the same way I could convince you I'm drinking a can of Coke by showing compelling evidence. If he chooses not to convince me and then punishes me for being unconvinced, he would be setting me up to fail from the start, it would be a major dick move.Also, let's be real: religion in general is illogical. The entire thing is founded on faith, which by definition is lacking in evidence. A logical conclusion would be to assume nothing due to a lack of evidence. Now, I'm not so arrogant as to tell every theist that they're wrong, but their position is based purely on faith.</quote>We believe that God is a kind, merciful God but he is also a Just God. If I take the belief that life is a test, and a fair one at that, because it's administered by God, he wouldn't set his creation up to fail (being the most compassionate). We believe that God provides every human with a fair shot to succeed. Free will is a mechanism to divide God's creation into those who sincerely seek his guidance, mercy and compassion from those who will rebel just for the sake of it because its convenient to live abiding by one's own sense of subjective morality (divesting of the need for God and becoming your own God). God is best positioned to decide on those who fall under the latter category. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ssb_yunglink2 03/05/24 3:40:53 PM #341:	falayyou01 posted... We believe that God is a kind, merciful God but he is also a Just God. If I take the belief that life is a test, and a fair one at that, because it's administered by God, he wouldn't set his creation up to fail (being the most compassionate). We believe that God provides every human with a fair shot to succeed. Free will is a mechanism to divide God's creation into those who sincerely seek his guidance, mercy and compassion from those who will rebel just for the sake of it because its convenient to live abiding by one's own sense of subjective morality (divesting of the need for God and becoming your own God). God is best positioned to decide on those who fall under the latter category. Bruh i dont care what you believe in. Objectively everyone does NOT have a fair shot to succeed. Unfair, bad things happening to people who dont deserve it is even a subject in the bible. --- Hee Ho <cite>ssb_yunglink2 posted [p:979204349] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>We believe that God is a kind, merciful God but he is also a Just God. If I take the belief that life is a test, and a fair one at that, because it's administered by God, he wouldn't set his creation up to fail (being the most compassionate). We believe that God provides every human with a fair shot to succeed. Free will is a mechanism to divide God's creation into those who sincerely seek his guidance, mercy and compassion from those who will rebel just for the sake of it because its convenient to live abiding by one's own sense of subjective morality (divesting of the need for God and becoming your own God). God is best positioned to decide on those who fall under the latter category.</quote>Bruh i dont care what you believe in. Objectively everyone does NOT have a fair shot to succeed. Unfair, bad things happening to people who dont deserve it is even a subject in the bible. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:41:10 PM #342:	ai123 posted... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/ https://scitechdaily.com/the-big-bang-how-could-something-come-from-nothing/ Unfortunately, by now even our best physics fails completely to provide answers. Until we make further progress towards a theory of everything, we wont be able to give any definitive answer. The most we can say with confidence at this stage is that physics has so far found no confirmed instances of something arising from nothing --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979204355] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>ai123 posted... </cite><quote>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/</quote>https://scitechdaily.com/the-big-bang-how-could-something-come-from-nothing/Unfortunately, by now even our best physics fails completely to provide answers. Until we make further progress towards a theory of everything, we wont be able to give any definitive answer. The most we can say with confidence at this stage is that physics has so far found no confirmed instances of something arising from nothing </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 3:43:19 PM #343:	falayyou01 posted... We believe that God is a kind, merciful God but he is also a Just God. If I take the belief that life is a test, and a fair one at that, because it's administered by God, he wouldn't set his creation up to fail (being the most compassionate). Why would god need to test us if he's supposed to be all knowing? We believe that God provides every human with a fair shot to succeed. Free will is a mechanism to divide God's creation into those who sincerely seek his guidance, mercy and compassion from those who will rebel just for the sake of it because its convenient to live abiding by one's own sense of subjective morality (divesting of the need for God and becoming your own God). God is best positioned to decide on those who fall under the latter category. Again, he could literally just convince me. That wouldn't infringe on my free will any more than proving to you that I can play guitar infringes upon your will. You're either strawmanning or simply not understanding my position too. I don't rebel against god and I certainly don't think that I am a god, that would be obscenely arrogant. EDIT: ssb_yunglink2 also raises a valid point. There are kids that die young having never had a chance to even hear about your god. From your description, they would be judged as disbelievers and dealt with appropriately. In what way would that not be setting them up to fail? --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979204381] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>We believe that God is a kind, merciful God but he is also a Just God. If I take the belief that life is a test, and a fair one at that, because it's administered by God, he wouldn't set his creation up to fail (being the most compassionate).</quote>Why would god need to test us if he's supposed to be all knowing?<quote>We believe that God provides every human with a fair shot to succeed. Free will is a mechanism to divide God's creation into those who sincerely seek his guidance, mercy and compassion from those who will rebel just for the sake of it because its convenient to live abiding by one's own sense of subjective morality (divesting of the need for God and becoming your own God). God is best positioned to decide on those who fall under the latter category.</quote>Again, he could literally just convince me. That wouldn't infringe on my free will any more than proving to you that I can play guitar infringes upon your will.You're either strawmanning or simply not understanding my position too. I don't rebel against god and I certainly don't think that I am a god, that would be obscenely arrogant.EDIT: ssb_yunglink2 also raises a valid point. There are kids that die young having never had a chance to even hear about your god. From your description, they would be judged as disbelievers and dealt with appropriately. In what way would that not be setting them up to fail? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
falayyou01 03/05/24 3:43:45 PM #344:	ssb_yunglink2 posted... Bruh i dont care what you believe in. Objectively everyone does NOT have a fair shot to succeed. Unfair, bad things happening to people who dont deserve it is even a subject in the bible. Unfair bad things happen to people in this life, but what's to say this life is all there is? Did you consider the possibility that they might get more than compensated in a next life? --- Pordalance <cite>falayyou01 posted [p:979204392] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>ssb_yunglink2 posted... </cite><quote>Bruh i dont care what you believe in. Objectively everyone does NOT have a fair shot to succeed. Unfair, bad things happening to people who dont deserve it is even a subject in the bible.</quote>Unfair bad things happen to people in this life, but what's to say this life is all there is? Did you consider the possibility that they might get more than compensated in a next life? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 03/05/24 3:44:06 PM #345:	Conversation is going exactly int he same circular logic and complete lack of self-awareness that all religious conversations go. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:979204400] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Conversation is going exactly int he same circular logic and complete lack of self-awareness that all religious conversations go. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Enclave 03/05/24 3:53:28 PM #346:	falayyou01 posted... he is also a Just God But he's totally cool with slavery. --- The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist. <cite>Enclave posted [p:979204562] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>he is also a Just God</quote>But he's totally cool with slavery. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
reincarnator07 03/05/24 3:57:45 PM #347:	Enclave posted... But he's totally cool with slavery. That and punishing people who had the audacity to fail to believe in him. --- Fan of metal? Don't mind covers? Check out my youtube and give me some feedback http://www.youtube.com/sircaballero <cite>reincarnator07 posted [p:979204630] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Enclave posted... </cite><quote>But he's totally cool with slavery.</quote>That and punishing people who had the audacity to fail to believe in him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Prestoff 03/05/24 3:59:22 PM #348:	Heineken14 posted... Conversation is going exactly int he same circular logic and complete lack of self-awareness that all religious conversations go. Yeah I was about to join in but this is going exactly as I thought it would go with someone who is a believer. --- DI MOLTO! <cite>Prestoff posted [p:979204651] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>Heineken14 posted... </cite><quote>Conversation is going exactly int he same circular logic and complete lack of self-awareness that all religious conversations go.</quote>Yeah I was about to join in but this is going exactly as I thought it would go with someone who is a believer. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ssb_yunglink2 03/05/24 4:00:44 PM #349:	falayyou01 posted... Unfair bad things happen to people in this life, but what's to say this life is all there is? Did you consider the possibility that they might get more than compensated in a next life? So a baby who dies hours after birth is actually a good thing because it will be possibly compensated in another life? Doesnt seem like a just and merciful God would allow his creations to die painfully after existing for mere hours. --- Hee Ho <cite>ssb_yunglink2 posted [p:979204669] in Do you bel... [t:80711376]...</cite> <quote>falayyou01 posted... </cite><quote>Unfair bad things happen to people in this life, but what's to say this life is all there is? Did you consider the possibility that they might get more than compensated in a next life? </quote>So a baby who dies hours after birth is actually a good thing because it will be possibly compensated in another life? Doesnt seem like a just and merciful God would allow his creations to die painfully after existing for mere hours. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Do you believe in a god/gods/other spiritual beings? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Do you believe in a god/gods/other spiritual beings?