Current Events > Is it worse to have genuine right wing beliefs or to do a right wing grift?

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C_Pain
03/02/24 2:22:25 PM
#1:


Where you don't believe it but just want money

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luigi33
03/02/24 2:22:55 PM
#2:


Grift.

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Heineken14
03/02/24 2:23:28 PM
#3:


There is no difference between the 2.

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VampireCoyote
03/02/24 2:23:37 PM
#4:


Yes.

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ellis123
03/02/24 2:23:43 PM
#5:


Is there a difference at this point?

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PurpleOutsider
03/02/24 2:23:57 PM
#6:


Genuine just means you're following someone else's grift.

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andel
03/02/24 2:24:28 PM
#7:


genuinely believing that shit is worse than grifting the true believer morons out of their money that they would throw at any honking lunatic. obviously both are shit and the grifter could still be worse if they are actively brainwashing the morons, but in a vacuum the true believers are worse imo

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#8
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#9
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Blue_Dream87
03/02/24 2:26:53 PM
#10:


No difference. They both feed into each other and one wouldn't be a problem without the other.

Only ones worse are the ones with money funding/astroturfing the believers and grifters.

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AbsolutelyNoOne
03/02/24 2:30:24 PM
#11:


In my experiences it is exceedingly rare a right-wing grifter who isn't already right wing does not become a right-winger

You have to say some of the most ridiculous shit imaginable to get people into the grift in the first place

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HeeathLivesOn
03/02/24 2:32:17 PM
#12:


Grift.

Not excusing indoctrinated voters supporting these things, but amygdala hijacks are a thing and I wish more people understood how these work since it explains why seemingly 'normal' people (determined via casual interaction) go batshit crazy when politics get brought up and deflect like crazy. There's been a strong and consistent effort to help drive the enlargement of the amygdala in the brains of the conservative voterbase, generally via alarmist reporting and higher percentages of crime coverage.

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Unknown5uspect
03/02/24 2:47:52 PM
#13:


Distinction without a difference

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Vyrulisse
03/02/24 2:51:20 PM
#14:


Grift.
At least believers actually believe in something even if it's backwards? Grifters push an idea for personal gain with consequences for everyone else not a concern. That feels worse to me.

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ClayGuida
03/02/24 2:51:58 PM
#15:


VampireCoyote posted...
Yes.


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teep_
03/02/24 2:57:17 PM
#16:


Vyrulisse posted...
Grift.
At least believers actually believe in something even if it's backwards? Grifters push an idea for personal gain with consequences for everyone else not a concern. That feels worse to me.


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Antiyonder
03/02/24 4:58:18 PM
#17:


Can't really say one side is better.

Those in genuine belief, I get not everyone has the best upbringing and such, but many people even in healthy environments take different approaches than say parents even if on great terms.

And I have to imagine that if people once subject to say child abuse can break the cycle, then bigoted parents or environments only explains so much.

The grifters make it worse, especially cause going as far as PragerU trying to sound reasonable and intelligent as possible.

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EmbraceOfDeath
03/02/24 4:59:44 PM
#18:


Having beliefs is not right or wrong. Acting on them may be.

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andel
03/02/24 5:09:13 PM
#19:


EmbraceOfDeath posted...
Having beliefs is not right or wrong. Acting on them may be.

some beliefs are objectively right or wrong if they live in or outside of reality. a belief like qanon is objectively wrong since it is proven to be bullshit.

morally, beliefs that cause harm for the sake of harm or exclusion could definitely be argued as morally wrong

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ScazarMeltex
03/02/24 5:13:02 PM
#20:


I don't care if right wingers get grifted, so it's worse to me to actually believe the shit.

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The_Korey
03/02/24 5:13:43 PM
#21:


Genuine belief may be willing to fight, but is actually possible to be shut down.
Grifters will deliberately ignore/hide the truth and do anything to keep the grift alive. Their money/fame/troll-lols depend on it.

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BucketCat
03/02/24 5:14:26 PM
#22:


grifting.
there are times when someone will genuinely believe something but won't let those beliefs get in the way of others living their lives.
like, I have conservative family members who genuinely believe that abortion is wrong, but they also genuinely believe that it's not the governments place to make that decision for people whether they can or cannot have an abortion.
a grifter in this case will not only tell others that abortion is wrong, but that it is also the governments place to ensure that nobody can get an abortion, regardless of their views on them.

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Hornezz
03/02/24 5:15:50 PM
#23:


Is it worse to be an asshole, or just to consistently act like one? There's no functional difference.

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Kami_no_Kami
03/02/24 5:18:38 PM
#24:


Grift. Its worse to make the world worse intentionally than through ignorance.
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Vyrulisse
03/02/24 5:21:05 PM
#25:


People saying there's no difference don't seem to understand the concept of the question.

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Antiyonder
03/02/24 5:34:11 PM
#26:


Vyrulisse posted...
People saying there's no difference don't seem to understand the concept of the question.

I mean I do, but it just seems like equal treatment is something that should be as easy to comprehend as kindergarten mathematics by an adult.

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Torgo
03/02/24 5:36:57 PM
#27:


Depends on how effective the harm you spread is...

Otherwise I don't really care if they believe their misinformation or bad ideas.

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Umbreon
03/02/24 5:38:07 PM
#28:


Basically the same thing at this point.

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action52
03/02/24 6:41:22 PM
#29:


Vyrulisse posted...
People saying there's no difference don't seem to understand the concept of the question.
I think it's less that and more people saying it doesn't matter much what their "true" beliefs are, all that matters is the result. If they're profiting off of spreading hatred and making the world a worse place, then they are terrible people and whether or not it's "just a grift" is immaterial.

Also some people have pointed out how common it is for people who start out just pandering to right wing cranks to wind up getting high off their own kool-aid and become far right extremists themselves. So in the end, they wind up having genuine right wing beliefs anyway.

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Technician_X
03/02/24 7:09:18 PM
#30:


action52 posted...


Also some people have pointed out how common it is for people who start out just pandering to right wing cranks to wind up getting high off their own kool-aid and become far right extremists themselves. So in the end, they wind up having genuine right wing beliefs anyway.

^This

I dont think some people are fully comprehending how all-encompassing the grift cycle becomes with these people. Scamming conservatives has become a literal industry. This also means that they are in competition with each other for the money in their marks wallets.

Remember Ann Coulter? Yeah, neither do I, because theres a hundred more who just copied her business model and made her obsolete.

But the catch with all that competition is having to stay in character all the time because they are financially dependent on the grift. Effectively, they become the character and theres no difference between them and a true believer, imo.

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CountCorvinus
03/02/24 7:14:42 PM
#31:


The true believer. If you're doing a grift then you know it's bullshit.

If the opportunity presented itself, I would gladly help Trump supporters part with their money.

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IceCreamOnStero
03/02/24 7:18:05 PM
#32:


Genuinely believing.

Grifting is shitty, but it also makes a lot of money. Money that can get you out of tought spots or just really improve your quality of life. The result is the same to some extent, but the intention is more understandable

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Antiyonder
03/02/24 11:26:09 PM
#33:


I mean besides the fact that they only encourage those deep into their beliefs, I often state as a half joke that if people were just voting for Trump for economics based reason, why not just work as a hired gun for the mafia?

Kind of the same for grifters. Like they want to present an image of doing whatever it takes for money, but don't go all the way, cause maybe a degree of shame. And kind of why I feel disdain for those who are just plain apathetic.

People wanting both to project the idea that they don't care about pleasing others, but want to be respected for it.

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Dark_Arbron
03/02/24 11:41:00 PM
#34:


The_Korey posted...
Genuine belief may be willing to fight, but is actually possible to be shut down.
Grifters will deliberately ignore/hide the truth and do anything to keep the grift alive. Their money/fame/troll-lols depend on it.

This. Once upon a time a user here (Kradek) was a Republican, but he's since outgrown it. If he were a grifter, there'd be nothing to outgrow.

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#35
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alfred_ashford
03/02/24 11:53:13 PM
#36:


Well the grifters perpetuate and empower those with the actual beliefs. So grifters.

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metralo
03/02/24 11:54:51 PM
#37:


Heineken14 posted...
There is no difference between the 2.


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Umbreon
03/02/24 11:55:20 PM
#38:


When the lunatics listen to the grifters, and go out and hurt people, the grifters insist that they hold no responsibility.

Just like every raindrop of a flood.

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Antiyonder
03/03/24 12:00:47 AM
#39:


Umbreon posted...
When the lunatics listen to the grifters, and go out and hurt people, the grifters insist that they hold no responsibility.

Just like every raindrop of a flood.

I mean like I said with the believers, many people strive to make good even when raised in less ideal situations.

But grifters nonetheless still contribute to problems, but holding back cause they still want to be seen favorably.

Heck it's why PragerU tries to sound educated and informed on their garbage.

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Umbreon
03/03/24 12:14:00 AM
#40:


Yeah, Prager.

Who told kids that "Being a slave is better than being killed and slaves were taught valuable skills".

Some of our assholes are trying to follow up on that.

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#41
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Antiyonder
03/03/24 12:22:23 AM
#42:


Yeah besides how some people go against norms even in harmless situations (Like how aside from a sitcom and such here and there, my mom and I have wildly different tastes, but both against bigotry) or if in a bad place rise above it.*

But honestly, I don't see how opposition to bigotry is like a geometry problem. I think it is the social/political equivalent to 2 and 2 equalling 4.

*People say you shouldn't be critical of those succumbing to their environment, but heeding that advice is a middle finger to victims of varying reasons who never went bad.

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Notti
03/06/24 6:27:49 AM
#43:


Well, consider it. A grifter is a greedy manipulative bs liar.

Those things are themselves terrible principles. And on top of it they espouse other terrible views because there are right wingers dumb enough to believe them. (And addicted to the anger and fear)

Even if they think their marks are wrong and idiots, he would be a traitor to his own principles.

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SuperSaiyanTien
03/06/24 7:17:35 AM
#44:


If your into politics and in a position where you're making money, you're most likely grifting.

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NoMeLx22x
03/06/24 7:33:57 AM
#45:


Certainly grifting.

The people grifting are preying on people who might be uneducated or sinply believe the first thing they hear.

You should have some empathy for people who just get indoctrinated into delusional takes from these grifting assholes who want nothing more than to trick people into thinking that super right wing beliefs are actually popular and what "normal" people think.

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