Current Events > I hate this new sense of meta-gaming people have

(+) Yeah! (+)

If, in order to be competitive at a multiplayer aspect of the game, one has to research specific builds that take advantage of game engine limitations/quirks instead of being able to intuit and build your own way, you have failed as a game developer.

Also, people who play games and only care about levels and exp going up and not actually experiencing the game as it was meant to. Sometimes this is the devs fault, but in my opinion there's too many people who immediately just start grinding away at levels and then complain the game got stale.

Like, have fun how you want to have fun but I don't have to like it.

The biggest offenders of these might be modern Call of Duty and I noticed the latter thing recently happening in Helldivers 2 of all games.

It's nuts and I hate it.

I think the metagaming stuff is just inevitable with any competitive multiplayer game, considering the way the internet works nowadays and how quickly information can spread across all interested parties. Even if they don't require weird engine edge-cases, when it comes down to it your intuition will just never compare to the intuition, playing, and focused research of hundreds or even thousands of serious players.

preach

i straight up cannot fathom looking up strats like that. like 80% of the fun is theorycrafting and experimenting on my own

Isn't this why gamefaqs came into existence?

So you've hated multiplayer as long as it's existed

ironman2009 posted...

Isn't this why gamefaqs came into existence?

Yes and no.

Yes, sure, there's some guides on gfaqs that include meta strats

But gfaqs came about in an era before competitive online gaming, before the internet in its current state. So there was just less of this going around. Ofc the grinding ppl were there already, but this idea of meta gaming has corrupted so many people who play games.

I genuinely do not see how they enjoy playing anything like that.

Irony posted...

So you've hated multiplayer as long as it's existed

nope.

in the past you'd be marked as a cheater.

Now, understanding the meta is tantamount to actually being good at a game. You can do both but they're not the same thing.

I used to be like that with fighting games until I hit a point where it wasn't fun anymore. Now I just pick characters that look cool that aren't grapplers lol

Smashingpmkns posted...

I used to be like that with fighting games until I hit a point where it wasn't fun anymore. Now I just pick characters that look cool that aren't grapplers lol

This is what I'm talking about.
I started barking up this tree with CSGO.
At some point realized it felt like a second job. Wasn't fun anymore.

I don't understand how this is so many people's MO when it comes to vidya

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

the "Starting Minecraft" to "Mob/Iron Golem Farming" pipeline

The only game I usually did that for was Diablo 3, just because I needed guidance to start properly pushing rifts and then got into it.

I also set up a perfect Euphoria build for a NG+ on Witcher 3 (max gear, level 100, the whole shebang) and then found out you can't NG+ a file twice.

Original save from before this run is long gone.

Cruciferous posted...

I don't understand how this is so many people's MO when it comes to vidya

Some people have that attitude but enjoy it. I don't think it's so weird to enjoy playing games at the top level, of really trying to win with everything available to you, etc etc

I do think it's weird that some people do this sort of thing even though they don't like it, and not only that but they don't even realize that's what's making them dislike the game. But it's sort of general knowledge that players will optimize the fun out of any game when given the chance and devs definitely have to put in a certain amount of effort to protect players from themselves

kirbymuncher posted...

Some people have that attitude but enjoy it. I don't think it's so weird to enjoy playing games at the top level, of really trying to win with everything available to you, etc etc

i get that in theory, but what i dont get is how they can get any satisfaction if they didnt get there themselves

Dungeater posted...

i get that in theory, but what i dont get is how they can get any satisfaction if they didnt get there themselves

there's more to games than just learning every single one of the intricate details

Think of anything you do in your life, that you enjoy, that's not videogame related. Did you learn every single thing you know about it by just blindly experimenting? Or did you read stuff about it online, learn from friends or a teacher, etc?

This is kinda just how anything competitive is. I was in high school when Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out looking at how to do cool shit. People in the 90s formed groups and gathered tech to sweep competition in arcades. The internet has just made it so that any joe can learn how to be decent at a game

kirbymuncher posted...

Think of anything you do in your life, that you enjoy, that's not videogame related

>_>

all i got is magic the gathering. and yea i obviously didnt impart the knowledge of certain cards unto myself, but i consider organic exposure way diff from net-decking or metagaming

learning naturally is one thing, seeking the best strats laid out is another entirely

to me at least

Blue_Inigo posted...

This is kinda just how anything competitive is. I was in high school when Marvel vs Capcom 3 came out looking at how to do cool shit. People in the 90s formed groups and gathered tech to sweep competition in arcades. The internet has just made it so that any joe can learn how to be decent at a game

Sure, this is a good example of when it is appropriate and works to make people have more fun. But I also feel like that's not really meta gaming in this topics sense, but I'm not a fighting game player.

Dungeater posted...

all i got is magic the gathering. and yea i obviously didnt impart the knowledge of certain cards unto myself, but i consider organic exposure way diff from net-decking or metagaming

yeah I can definitely see where you're coming from, especially since I personally am probably a lot like you. my favourite part of MtG is looking for weird interactions and trying to build functional yet unusual decks.

but there's other people who find the fun part to be the thrill of playing, of knowing they're truly at 100% and so are all their opponents and no one's really holding back in any way. And you can't even exist in that environment without doing the preparation beforehand, and part of that preparation is realizing that the popular netdecks are popular for a reason. It's just a different sphere of enjoyment

People get so weirdly obsessed with running the meta even if they're not even good enough to run the meta or the meta is only very slightly ahead of everything else. I have cerebral palsy so I play who I feel like in Overwatch 2, and people nonstop bitch about your choices even if you're the one carrying.

I don't really care that some people want to play "high level", but it's super lame when people try to force their gameplay on other people. People got so pissy when I beat their sweaty MSP/MSS/MSC teams in MvC2 with a much weaker team, and I never play Phantasy Star Online with randoms because they just want to play the same two quests for their entire playtime.

Metagaming is fine and something that will eventually happen, but people have such annoyingly binary ideas on balance that I constantly hear "run this or lose" or "everything else is completely useless", even in the context of a single-player game.

anttttt posted...

People get so weirdly obsessed with running the meta even if they're not even good enough to run the meta or the meta is only very slightly ahead of everything else. I have cerebral palsy so I play who I feel like in Overwatch 2, and people nonstop bitch about your choices even if you're the one carrying.

I don't really care that some people want to play "high level", but it's super lame when people try to force their gameplay on other people. People got so pissy when I beat their sweaty MSP/MSS/MSC teams in MvC2 with a much weaker team, and I never play Phantasy Star Online with randoms because they just want to play the same two quests for their entire playtime.

Metagaming is fine and something that will eventually happen, but people have such annoyingly binary ideas on balance that I constantly hear "run this or lose" or "everything else is completely useless", even in the context of a single-player game.

I think this is a big part of why I don't like this "meta-gaming" thing

Especially the very first thing you said. God, those people really annoy me.
I'm trying to think of a good analogy for this but I'm coming up empty. Like, how likely is it that you'll be able to use this advanced strategy successfully when you can't even use a basic one?

It's a problem but you have to understand why people are this way. If they aren't streamers or sponsored pro gamers that make money while gaming it's almost a complete waste of time to game, even when it comes to games that a person may like. So because of that people are always looking for the fastest and easiest methods to get ahead or at least on par with others, especially in competitive games. Casuals usually don't respect the grind and journey of self improvement, regardless if it is at something that is worthwhile or not, they only care about victory and looking good.

I mean, that's been competitive gaming for basically forever, and why it can't be called a real "sport." You're skill level is always filtered through the inherent unbalanced of any game.

You must be playing the wrong games. Try GBO2!

That's exactly how I play multiplayer games I just make my own builds and play blind mostly.

It was fun playing the monster hunter series like this and comparing my progress and build with other meta builds.

In cod I'm good enough to top lobby with janky classes and still have fun.

This has been a thing for as long as I remember.

Especially in fighting games, but also Pokmon and every TCG.

Breaking a meta is one of the hardest challenges there is.

Not really new but a plague that has continually infected online gaming and has even spread to offline gaming.

Even though Destiny has a PLETHORA of problems, I always thought it was funny when people would grind a week's worth of progress on day 1 and complain there's nothing to do until next weekly reset