Current Events > When are Democrats going to realize not voting for Biden will ensue a Trump win?

(+) Yeah! (+)

ZMythos posted...

I don't necessarily disagree, but it certainly feels like the DNC is using the threat of fascism just enough to not lose elections while continuing to be mediocre in scope and action.

True but its not a hollow threat. It's real.

Doe posted...

Not justifying voting against Biden, but you have to see how obviously dishonest this framing is, as if the status quo hasnt changed in some way the past 4 months.

Youre conflating being an ally of Israel with fully enabling Netanyahus atrocities. Ronald Reagan was able to be an ally to Israel while speaking plainly about the wrongness of its actions and convincing them to halt their violence in Beirut. Youre acting like its unthinkable a US president would refuse to do anything but be a mouthpiece for Israels whims, which is not historical.

Im just being realistic about the options we have for this election. You get Biden who supports Israel but could improve on the issue, or Trump, who absolutely wont, who also supports russia attacking NATO, and will probably create a dictatorship.

Not voting just is not an option if you dont want things to get drastically worse than they already are

Quartermuncher posted...

Maybe all the folks whining about Biden committing "genocide" should look at the Palestinian side of things. They've been offered a ceasefire numerous times and they choose to either accept and break it or just decline it, so Israel's only choices are to either fight back or sit there and get shot at.

You've got Israel and Palestine the wrong way round there.

ZMythos posted...

I don't necessarily disagree, but it certainly feels like the DNC is using the threat of fascism just enough to not lose elections while continuing to be mediocre in scope and action.

Exactly. And thus they're also unintentionally ensuring that fascism remains a threat.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Im just being realistic about the options we have for this election.

Im not responding to your opinion about voting, which I dont disagree with. Im responding to your downplaying of the Gaza genocide and incorrect US history.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

Exactly. And thus they're also unintentionally ensuring that fascism remains a threat.

Democrats ARE mediocre across the board. But them being better would not end the fascism present in the entire right half of this country.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Im just being realistic about the options we have for this election. You get Biden who supports Israel but could improve on the issue, or Trump, who absolutely wont, who also supports russia attacking NATO, and will probably create a dictatorship.

Not voting just is not an option if you dont want things to get drastically worse than they already are

Yet somehow Trump isn't held to any standard, only Biden.

--Zero- posted...

Fuck all your protests and realize the bigger picture for this election. Continue that shit after 2024.

Yeah so when Fascist McHitler is the Republican nominee in 28 we all just need to suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee Status Quo Johnson who is inexplicably 99 years old

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Yeah so when Fascist McHitler is the Republican nominee in 28 we all just need to suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee Status Quo Johnson who is inexplicably 99 years old

Yes. Every damn time. It's not a one-off.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Democrats ARE mediocre across the board. But them being better would not end the fascism present in the entire right half of this country.

Not overnight, but it would be a good start.

Heavy_D_Forever posted...

I've openly stated I'm an Independent voter.

Supporting a candidate because of a letter next to their name is one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard of in my life.

I wasn't referring to you being independent, I was referring to you being anti-Biden.

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Yeah so when Fascist McHitler is the Republican nominee in 28 we all just need to suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee Status Quo Johnson who is inexplicably 99 years old

Is this really an issue? Yes, a meh present is much better than an infinitely worse future.

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Yeah so when Fascist McHitler is the Republican nominee in 28 we all just need to suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee Status Quo Johnson who is inexplicably 99 years old

I mean, unless you are comfortable with Fascist McHitler running the country.....

You can blame Newt Gingrich for making politics a zero-sum game

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Yeah so when Fascist McHitler is the Republican nominee in 28 we all just need to suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee Status Quo Johnson who is inexplicably 99 years old

Yes, actually.

Ideally there would be other candidates but that's not how the world has decided to work for some 20 years now

there is an argument to be made to just destroy the system (by voting in the other guy) but the outcome of that is demonstrably significantly worse for everyone for most of the foreseeable future

Could things be better? Yes. But the focus for right now continues to be triage until the crateful of literal ghouls people keep electing finally die off or retire

democrats are braindead

they need to do better

K181 posted...

Is this really an issue? Yes, a meh present is much better than an infinitely worse future.

I think where they see the issue is the long term. As in they dont think Biden / other moderate candidate is or will take steps to actually reduce fascism in the United States. And if fascism is on the ballot every 4 years and democracy ends if fascism wins the election, there must be a concrete and aggressive plan to remove fascism from the ballot permanently.

Dems need to communicate that plan. And they also cant afford to defer to things like parliamentarians telling them no since they know the fascists if elected wont give that same deference to the system.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

We've had a decade for that and how did that go

We ended up with Hillary, Biden, and older Biden

Doe posted...

I think where they see the issue is the long term. As in they dont think Biden / other moderate candidate is or will take steps to actually reduce fascism in the United States. And if fascism is on the ballot every 4 years and democracy ends if fascism wins the election, there must be a concrete and aggressive plan to remove fascism from the ballot permanently.

Dems need to communicate that plan. And they also cant afford to defer to things like parliamentarians telling them no since they know the fascists if elected wont give that same deference to the system.

it's a constant cycle of shit

red team pushes us 3 clicks to the right
blue team goes 'woah that's too far' and clicks half step back

the only people who benefit are the megacorps

That's literally how it works though. Intra party discussions and disputes are not resolved until the primary or convention, if ever.

Everything being resolved before the election season is unrealistic.

K181 posted...

Is this really an issue? Yes, a meh present is much better than an infinitely worse future.

Some Voters are lazy spoiled brats. They dont vote in the primary and other smaller elections. But whine nobody listens to them.

The primaries are basically the times when you get to choose the exact candidate you want. That will happen in 2028. And I'll bet you $1000 that the young voters just will not even remember to participate that day. They never, ever do. And then they bitch about it later in the general election. Every time.

SilvosForever posted...

The primaries are basically the times when you get to choose the exact candidate you want. That will happen in 2028. And I'll bet you $1000 that the young voters just will not even remember to participate that day. They never, ever do. And then they bitch about it later in the general election. Every time.

Yeah i never understand the complaining about the eventual nominees not being who everyone claims they wanted

Like bruh if they didnt get enough votes thats NOT who everyone actually wanted

Damn this topic really brought out the MAGA that's been lurking.

--Zero- posted...

Damn this topic really brought out the MAGA that's been lurking.

Of course.

I'm just looking forward to a possible 2.0 version of this

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/aa780795.jpg

Doe posted...

I think where they see the issue is the long term. As in they dont think Biden / other moderate candidate is or will take steps to actually reduce fascism in the United States. And if fascism is on the ballot every 4 years and democracy ends if fascism wins the election, there must be a concrete and aggressive plan to remove fascism from the ballot permanently.

Dems need to communicate that plan. And they also cant afford to defer to things like parliamentarians telling them no since they know the fascists if elected wont give that same deference to the system.

Exactly. This was the point I was making. At least from 2016 on every election was the most important election of our lifetime, we have to vote for the other guy to prevent fascism etc. It just feels like its always gonna be like this from now on. Dont get me wrong though; I will vote for 99 year old Status Quo Johnson at the end of the day but I just feel like we could do better

Starks posted...

That's literally how it works though. Intra party discussions and disputes are not resolved until the primary or convention, if ever.

Everything being resolved before the election season is unrealistic.

I actually saw an article yesterday that said Kamala met with some high-powered dem governors recently and listened to their grievances with how the Biden campaign was going. After an hour of listening she asked what they should do. So there is hope that we get some real strategy and disputes resolved during the convention

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Exactly. This was the point I was making. At least from 2016 on every election was the most important election of our lifetime, we have to vote for the other guy to prevent fascism etc. It just feels like its always gonna be like this from now on. Dont get me wrong though; I will vote for 99 year old Status Quo Johnson at the end of the day but I just feel like we could do better

Trump has been the republican nominee in the general since 2016. Yes, every election since then has been a choice between increasing fascism and not fascism. Democrats need to improve, but they arent lying when they say every election is incredibly important until the rights fascism dies out.

For those who want Biden to step down, would they be fine if the new person has the same Biden policies but just a younger person? Is it solely the presentation of Biden that bothers people?

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Trump has been the republican nominee in the general since 2016. Yes, every election since then has been a choice between increasing fascism and not fascism. Democrats need to improve, but they arent lying when they say every election is incredibly important until the rights fascism dies out.

I understand that, but whos to say 28 isnt gonna have like Desantis or Abbott or Noem or some other fascist fuck as the nominee? Then we once again have to fight fascism in an election year

MaxEffingBemis posted...

I understand that, but whos to say 28 isnt gonna have like Desantis or Abbott or Noem or some other fascist fuck as the nominee? Then we once again have to fight fascism in an election year

it probably will. But idk how democrats are supposed to singlehandedly fix that, nor be expected to. There needs to be change from inside the right, which isnt even close to occurring, but idk how anyone other than the right should be held responsible for that.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

it probably will. But idk how democrats are supposed to singlehandedly fix that, nor be expected to. There needs to be change from inside the right, which isnt even close to occurring, but idk how anyone other than the right should be held responsible for that.

I do think running some real left-leaning liberals that win elections would be a good start though. Like Whitmer for example. She would crush in the general

Its not that Dems are responsible for making the right better people, its that if they dont take action to stop a fascist from reaching office then its game over, so they need to do something by necessity, or theyre just kicking rocks until they lose.

MaxEffingBemis posted...

I understand that, but whos to say 28 isnt gonna have like Desantis or Abbott or Noem or some other fascist fuck as the nominee? Then we once again have to fight fascism in an election year

You can assume the GOP goblin will be a fascist. The only thing you can do is vote for the Dem candidate in the general, no matter how much you hate them. And the only way you can NOT hate the Dem candidate in the general, is if you participate in the primaries and help elect a progressive candidate.

Biden won the primaries in 2020 so he's the candidate for the general. Then he won that. Incumbent presidents basically 99% of the time are shoe-in to re-run in the next general.

You don't really get to "pick" you you want for president until the 2028 primaries. So until then it's Biden vs Trump and I'll take Biden every time in that.

All this bitching about people dislike Biden etc. etc. achieves nothing. There are two options guys: Biden or Trump. That's it. No one else is going to win. These are the only two possibilities that can play out at this point (unless one of them keels over or something).

And they're both old.

I'll take the 81 year old over the orange fascist who by the way is 77 himself.

Looks like SilvosForever has me blocked

MaxEffingBemis posted...

Yeah so when Fascist McHitler is the Republican nominee in 28 we all just need to suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee Status Quo Johnson who is inexplicably 99 years old

And you're whining and crying about Status Quo Johnson being on the ballot and not Fascist McHitler?

Sheiky-Baby posted...

I'm just looking forward to a possible 2.0 version of this

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/aa780795.jpg

Need a reminder of the tantrum ole Donny had when he lost?

Sheiky-Baby posted...

I'm just looking forward to a possible 2.0 version of this

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/aa780795.jpg

Still has nothing on how the right reacted when Donnie lost.

DrizztLink posted...

And you're whining and crying about Status Quo Johnson being on the ballot and not Fascist McHitler?

As another poster stated: its always gonna be Fascist McHitler on the ballot from now on. It doesnt always have to be Status Quo Johnson though

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No he's not.
It will.

Heineken14 posted...

No he's not.
It will.

As long as a significant majority of White voters keep voting for Republicans, there will always be a Republican party. If only half of White voters voted for Republicans, then it would be a dead political party.

MaxEffingBemis posted...

I understand that, but whos to say 28 isnt gonna have like Desantis or Abbott or Noem or some other fascist fuck as the nominee? Then we once again have to fight fascism in an election year

I'm most fearful of 2028 personally, but I also know they are so unpopular with the MAGA that their votes will be split while the Democrats have 4 years to build up someone.

Right now with 2024 it's more important than the 2020 election simply because Trump is bloodlust with denial he lost and is making some unhinged claims if he wins that will not be good for either side. Trump is also on the verge of either jail time or being disqualified for running for President. If Trump loses in 2024 then he's not likely to run again or be allowed to run again. His old age might catch up to him by 2028 too. People need to see the bigger picture and why 2024 is so important to vote against Trump which means no matter how stubborn they are about the age of Biden or the war they need to understand how much worse it'll be if they don't vote Biden.

Enclave posted...

Need a reminder of the tantrum ole Donny had when he lost?

Reminder? He's still throwing that tantrum.

Heineken14 posted...

I mean, unless you are comfortable with Fascist McHitler running the country.....

There's an expression in cybersecurity (and various other sorts of similar things, derived from an IRA quote) which is "We have to succeed every day, they just need to get lucky once".

The reason we need to ask more of the counter-GOP is because instead of getting us in a position where we can stop the fascists or strengthen our systems enough to be able to withstand the next time they get lucky. But instead what we end up with is every two years the Democratic party comes forward and says "You have to take the candidate(s) we give you, because the alternative is fascism".

If every presidential election, you push back fascism by 3 years, fascism eventually wins. We should be pushing the party to push back fascism by 5 years.

Also for everyone saying that the "timing isn't right", a lot of the same posters 6 months ago were saying that Biden shouldn't change/be replaced then as well. And a year ago when the same sentiment was being expressed. It's the same argument that conservatives use after school shootings.

Anteaterking posted...

There's an expression in cybersecurity (and various other sorts of similar things, derived from an IRA quote) which is "We have to succeed every day, they just need to get lucky once".

The reason we need to ask more of the counter-GOP is because instead of getting us in a position where we can stop the fascists or strengthen our systems enough to be able to withstand the next time they get lucky. But instead what we end up with is every two years the Democratic party comes forward and says "You have to take the candidate(s) we give you, because the alternative is fascism".

If every presidential election, you push back fascism by 3 years, fascism eventually wins. We should be pushing the party to push back fascism by 5 years.

Also for everyone saying that the "timing isn't right", a lot of the same posters 6 months ago were saying that Biden shouldn't change/be replaced then as well. And a year ago when the same sentiment was being expressed. It's the same argument that conservatives use after school shootings.

But why is the expectation always on democrats to do everything, and not the actual fascists to stop being fascist? Wanting the democrats to improve is one thing. Not voting UNTIL they improve is another thing entirely.

Anyone not voting this election is indirectly supporting fascism.

Heineken14 posted...

Lolol, no. This is typical right wing projection.

Im a socialist so no.

Cemith posted...

It's hilarious you think Biden has a cult.

I genuinely have to question your sanity.

TonyKojima posted...

Anything other than a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.

See? Cult. You proudly vote for a man openly bypassing congress to fund the largest genocide in centuries. The only thing he does to fight fascism is shake his finger at Trump because thats literally all he needs to do to earn your vote.

And your blind loyalty will hand Trump the presidency on a silver platter. The republican party is completely evil and the democratic party is half full of people completely okay with genocide as long as its their team committing it, and the other half of the democratic party not voting for Biden because they have a fucking conscience.

Maybe its not apparent to someone that lives in the US how fucking cultish your politics are, but the rest of the world can see it and its fucking embarrassing.