Current Events > Hamas base confirmed under Gaza hospital.

(+) Yeah! (+)

willythemailboy posted...

The user in question has posted that every action Israel does is a war crime. While he won't say it, he includes existing in that list.

You lot are fucking hysterical

willythemailboy posted...

While he won't say it, he includes existing in that list.

Gonna need a citation on that one, wilbur.

Otherwise I'll just say that you want to genocide all Palestinians and all Muslims as well. After all, your intent is obvious.

willythemailboy posted...

The user in question has posted that every action Israel does is a war crime. While he won't say it, he includes existing in that list.

I don't know about that user but sure. I can buy it that someone might say something like that because the anti-semitism has been extreme lately.

but yea they have been doing war crimes. Hard to deny that.

Chicken posted...

I dont condone what they did but I understand why they did it

If you just fooled me, I'd put it on myself, but you seem to have fooled everyone.

GeraldDarko posted...

If you just fooled me, I'd put it on myself, but you seem to have fooled everyone.

I dunno what youre even talking about anymore

Murphiroth posted...

Gonna need a citation on that one, wilbur.

What part of "he won't say it" didn't you understand? The fact remains that ICOS opposes the existence of Israel.

Murphiroth posted...

Otherwise I'll just say that you want to genocide all Palestinians and all Muslims as well. After all, your intent is obvious.

You won't be the first or last. Not even in this topic.

Hamas is evil, but its a symptom of a greater evil (being the occupation by Israel)

Chicken posted...

I dunno what youre even talking about anymore

Everything you post comes across as condoning, not understanding. Literally everything.

willythemailboy posted...

You won't be the first or last. Not even in this topic.

Wonder why that is, willy.

willythemailboy posted...

You won't be the first or last. Not even in this topic.

And none of them would be wrong.

willythemailboy posted...

You won't be the first or last. Not even in this topic.

How are you even going to complain about that with a straight face?

I merely said Israel is causing too much collateral damage and killing too many innocent people and you respond saying that I support Israel just letting terrorist attacks happen on them?

Shadow_Don posted...

How are you even going to complain about that with a straight face?

I merely said Israel is causing too much collateral damage and killing too many innocent people and you respond saying that I support Israel just letting terrorist attacks happen on them?

It the weirdest thing. I am seeing a bunch of people whom see a small strip of land with no military, surrounded by all sides, with their backs to a ocean that also filled with hostiles, calling the people within that strip terrorists and deserve death. You gotta stop arguing with these people and call them what they are, genocide enablers and neocons.

Teddytalks posted...

It the weirdest thing. I am seeing a bunch of people whom see a small strip of land with no military, surrounded by all sides, with their backs to a ocean that also filled with hostiles, calling the people within that strip terrorists and deserve death. You gotta stop arguing with these people and call them what they are, genocide enablers. Post the videos, post the facts. Don't engage with them.

And don't forget to mark their posts. They do get warned or suspended eventually; several have been.

Murphiroth posted...

Wonder why that is, willy.

I have two possible explanations for that, but both will be deleted for flaming. Accurate, but still flaming.

Shadow_Don posted...

I merely said Israel is causing too much collateral damage and killing too many innocent people and you respond saying that I support Israel just letting terrorist attacks happen on them?

Your posts come across as "Israel needs to do *something* (insert handwaving) but anything with collateral damage is too much." As with most of the other users here, you seem insistent on doing nothing at all.

willythemailboy posted...

I have two possible explanations for that, but both will be deleted for flaming. Accurate, but still flaming.

No, they'll be deleted for being baseless accusations you conjured up to attack people calling out your support for IDF, who are currently the most violent, inhumane terrorist group actively operating anywhere in the world.

Chicken posted...

I dunno what youre even talking about anymore

I mean, you fooled me as to that being the message you're trying to communicate to everyone. If it was just me that didn't understand your message, I could accept the miscommunication as my fault. If everyone misunderstands, the miscommunication it's on you.
You say you don't condone their actions, but then liken actions of people that kidnap and murder women and children, send rockets at civilian targets, and use the people they claim to stand for as shields as Nazi resistance. I'm saying if you don't condone that stuff, shut the fuck up about it.

legendarylemur posted...

It doesn't make sense. They were first claiming that Hamas misfired a missile into their own hospital, next they claim there's like a giant military base below the hospital. Unlikely they happen to just bomb their own base, so what's the truth?

Nah, IDF and anyone with functioning brain cells already knew theres a massive network of tunnels underneath Gazas residences, schools and so on. So, yes, the controversy is whether or not that justifies IDF striking those tunnels in order to eliminate combat forces, but at the expense of civilians living above ground. The origin of the ordnance that hit that specific hospital earlier has been questioned by pretty much everyone, while the IDF is claiming it was not theirs. So-called friendly fire is a real thing in combat, so its not impossible for Hamas or another group to have struck the hospital by accident or whatever.

willythemailboy posted...

Your posts come across as "Israel needs to do *something* (insert handwaving) but anything with collateral damage is too much." As with most of the other users here, you seem insistent on doing nothing at all.

I mean yea too much collateral damage is bad. Didn't realize that was controversial.

And if the options are do nothing vs. ground invasion that could leave 100k+ dead and kick off ww3 then I prefer the do nothing approach.

willythemailboy posted...

I have two possible explanations for that, but both will be deleted for flaming. Accurate, but still flaming.

So typical of you spineless chuds.

"I could say a mean thing but I won't because I'm too attached to my account, but I would! I totally would! Also I'm right! Totally right!"

GeraldDarko posted...

I mean, you fooled me as to that being the message you're trying to communicate to everyone. If it was just me that didn't understand your message, I could accept the miscommunication as my fault. If everyone misunderstands, the miscommunication it's on you.
You say you don't condone their actions, but then liken actions of people that kidnap and murder women and children, send rockets at civilian targets, and use the people they claim to stand for as shields as Nazi resistance. I'm saying if you don't condone that stuff, shut the fuck up about it.

Now youre just adding random shit to what I said. My previous post made my stance crystal clear. I literally cant dumb it down any more than that. But go on supporting genocide I guess, Im not your dad.

I love the gaslighting, as if intentionally targeting over 50% of the homes in Gaza is "collateral damage" and not just plain old genocide. This stuff is indefensible, so stop trying.

Murphiroth posted...

So typical of you spineless chuds.

"I could say a mean thing but I won't because I'm too attached to my account, but I would! I totally would! Also I'm right! Totally right!"

The two things would be "morons" and "trolls". Fair enough?

Now have yourself a good fap while hitting the report button.

Metroid_Food posted...

I love the gaslighting, as if intentionally targeting over 50% of the homes in Gaza is "collateral damage" and not just plain old genocide. This stuff is indefensible, so stop trying.

To clarify, I agree that calling it "collateral damage" is gross. It's just that even arguing on there terms its still pretty easy to show how Israel's actions are beyond indefensible.

willythemailboy posted...

The two things would be "morons" and "trolls". Fair enough?

Now have yourself a good fap while hitting the report button.

LMAO that's all you have? So weak.

willythemailboy posted...

Your posts come across as "Israel needs to do *something* (insert handwaving) but anything with collateral damage is too much." As with most of the other users here, you seem insistent on doing nothing at all.

I'm not an expert, but I have this radical idea that a military as capable as Israel's shouldn't need to resort to wanton destruction. Don't intentionally shoot through/bomb the human shields. I'm under no impression that ZERO collateral damage is realistic, but make some effort to reduce it.

Chicken posted...

Now youre just adding random shit to what I said. My previous post made my stance crystal clear. I literally cant dumb it down any more than that. But go on supporting genocide I guess, Im not your dad.

I don't support genocide, that's what I've been saying the whole time. You're the one going of about Hamas having reasons for their atrocities, then only saying you don't condone it when pressed. Fake people shit.

Shadow_Don posted...

And if the options are do nothing vs. ground invasion that could leave 100k+ dead and kick off ww3 then I prefer the do nothing approach.

There have been multiple ground invasions, bombing campaigns, etc. over the last 70 years that haven't had half that many dead combined, and that's including conflicts where the IDF wasn't even involved. This seems like a hyperbolic justification for your support of doing nothing.

willythemailboy posted...

Everything you post comes across as condoning, not understanding. Literally everything.

Jesus Christ. This from the guy reading minds. You must take lessons to be this hypocritical.

willythemailboy posted...

There have been multiple ground invasions, bombing campaigns, etc. over the last 70 years that haven't had half that many dead combined, and that's including conflicts where the IDF wasn't even involved. This seems like a hyperbolic justification for your support of doing nothing.

If you don't understand how this situation is different and already spiraling out of control then you don't know anything about what is going on and you should probably stop talking about it.

Anyone who believes this shit is a gigantic rube. Were you asleep for the entire War on Terror?

bIuerain posted...

Anyone who believes this shit is a gigantic rube. Were you asleep for the entire War on Terror?

Some people just want to see Palestinians die...any excuse is good for them. They are like MAGA's just eating up all Trump's bullshit.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


this

Shadow_Don posted...

Wait wait wait. He said end the occupation in West Bank (Hamas isn't in West Bank) and stop doing war crimes.

Maybe I'm not following you here but the implication there is that you think Israel should be allowed to do war crimes? anything less would be a slap on the wrist in your eyes?

Sounds pretty insane.

I'm asking what should Israel do as a result of the terrorist attack and ongoing attacks by Hamas and other neighboring terrorist orgs. Not what Israel should stop doing regardless of the terrorist attack.

Most users are deflecting the question. The best answer I've seen from a different thread was to stop bombing and bring in special forces trained to avoid civilian casualties and end Hamas. But then the follow up question is, what if there's not enough special forces? There's thousands of terrorists and even more innocents. That might not be possible.

I'm genuinely curious what you all think.

Shadow_Don posted...

If you don't understand how this situation is different and already spiraling out of control then you don't know anything about what is going on and you should probably stop talking about it.

The only thing that could make it spiral out of control is if outside powers (Iran, mostly) steps in themselves rather than their usual pattern of supporting Hamas as a form of proxy war against Israel.

Yes, a ground invasion is going to be bad. I just don't see how it can be avoided.

The terrorists who have been using civilians as human shields using a hospital for exactly that purpose is not surprising at all.

Yo_D_oY posted...

I'm asking what should Israel do as a result of the terrorist attack and ongoing attacks by Hamas and other neighboring terrorist orgs. Not what Israel should stop doing regardless of the terrorist attack.

Most users are deflecting the question. The best answer I've seen from a different thread was to stop bombing and bring in special forces trained to avoid civilian casualties and end Hamas. But then the follow up question is, what if there's not enough special forces? There's thousands of terrorists and even more innocents. That might not be possible.

I'm genuinely curious what you all think.

You could also just give Palestinians decent living conditions and equal rights to Israeli citizens and thus take away the conditions that gave rise to Hamas. But that wouldnt be enough bloodshed so obviously its not an option.

Mizznox posted...

I'm not an expert, but I have this radical idea that a military as capable as Israel's shouldn't need to resort to wanton destruction. Don't intentionally shoot through/bomb the human shields. I'm under no impression that ZERO collateral damage is realistic, but make some effort to reduce it.

https://www.haaretz.com/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

In the past, Israel's military wanted to destroy Hamas by targeting its leadership. However, Netanyahu thwarted these operations.

willythemailboy posted...

The only thing that could make it spiral out of control is if outside powers (Iran, mostly) steps in themselves rather than their usual pattern of supporting Hamas as a form of proxy war against Israel.

Which is likely to happen if they do a ground invasion and generate what will be a very significant refugee crisis.

Yes, a ground invasion is going to be bad. I just don't see how it can be avoided.

by not doing it????

Yo_D_oY posted...

I'm asking what should Israel do as a result of the terrorist attack and ongoing attacks by Hamas and other neighboring terrorist orgs. Not what Israel should stop doing regardless of the terrorist attack.

Most users are deflecting the question. The best answer I've seen from a different thread was to stop bombing and bring in special forces trained to avoid civilian casualties and end Hamas. But then the follow up question is, what if there's not enough special forces? There's thousands of terrorists and even more innocents. That might not be possible.

I'm genuinely curious what you all think.

More iron dome. Better intelligence and response protocol. More border security. Special force operations as you said. Anything other than what they are about to do.

They were already warned about the attack through intelligence channels and did nothing. The country should have been on high alert regardless simply because of the significance of the date.

And if we all agree that violence breeds terrorism then I don't understand how you think what Israel is doing is going to work. One of the lessons learned from the War on Terror was that we weren't merely eliminating terrorists, we were creating them through violence.

Strand posted...

However, Netanyahu thwarted these operations.

Yea I forget this. Netanyahu needs to go. If you are unwilling to let go of the idea that Israel needs to go through with a significant and violent response then surely this can't be the guy to do it. He has already demonstrated his willingness to cling to power and be an autocrat. That's not someone who should be leading a counter-offensive with the stakes being this high.

Shadow_Don posted...

Which is likely to happen if they do a ground invasion and generate what will be a very significant refugee crisis.

by not doing it????

More iron dome. Better intelligence and response protocol. More border security. Special force operations as you said. Anything other than what they are about to do.

They were already warned about the attack through intelligence channels and did nothing. The country should have been on high alert regardless simply because of the significance of the date.

And you're immediately back to "basically do nothing and hope their defenses are better next time." This time with a side of "it's really Israel's fault for letting it happen".

willythemailboy posted...

And you're immediately back to "basically do nothing and hope their defenses are better next time." This time with a side of "it's really Israel's fault for letting it happen".

Shadow_Don posted...

Special forces operations

So are you like just not capable of reading or is there another explanation?

And no, it's not Israel's or Israelis' fault the attack happened, but it's certainly a failure on the part of their inept, corrupt, and dangerously fascist leader who has used anti-democratic means to stay his hold on power.

Shadow_Don posted...

So are you like just not capable of reading or is there another explanation?

willythemailboy posted...

basically do nothing

Are you incapable of reading? Token action is basically nothing.

Shadow_Don posted...

So are you like just not capable of reading or is there another explanation?

And no, it's not Israel's or Israelis' fault the attack happened, but it's certainly a failure on the part of their inept, corrupt, and dangerously fascist leader who has used anti-democratic means to stay his hold on power.

Dude really doesn't want to hear any option besides "Rain hell on Gaza until there's nothing left". Anything else to him is "Throw down arms and apologize to Hamas for upsetting them"

Yo_D_oY posted...

I'm asking what should Israel do as a result of the terrorist attack and ongoing attacks by Hamas and other neighboring terrorist orgs. Not what Israel should stop doing regardless of the terrorist attack.

Which came first the apartheid state or the violent response?

Not to be glib by making it that simple like the old chicken and egg riddle, but at some point it's not a matter of "Israel brought this on themselves" or "they deserve it" but...hey... it's an apartheid state and people are living in a brutal prison with minimal or no amenities, no prospects, and no rights. People under those conditions lash out, or they see anyone fighting against their oppressors as allies even if they use methods the rest of the world condemn for their brutality.

Are you looking for a better worded answer than "what did you expect would happen" because that doesn't meet the civility standard? It seems like it's the pro apartheid folks who believe any military response and loss of Palestinian life is acceptable because they use conscripted soldiers, and drop expensive bombs manufactured by reputable arms manufacturers.

Is it the lower tech, less efficient methods of killing you object to? Is it the lack of a good public relations and propaganda arm to reassure you that it's okay to kill Israelis the way the Israeli government assures you all the Palestinian deaths are acceptable?

willythemailboy posted...

Are you incapable of reading? Token action is basically nothing.

Is there even a possibility of there being anything between total ground invasion and "do nothing" in your mind? If you don't think there is then I don't know why we are playing this dumb game.

Neither of us are military experts. You told me I could generalize and I spitballed a few ideas out in like 30 seconds. I'm sure one of the most sophisticated military powers in the world can figure it out in more than 30 seconds while also being consulted and funded by the literal most significant military power in human history.

willythemailboy posted...

Are you incapable of reading? Token action is basically nothing.

So special forces operations targeting Hamas leadership is token action but killing innocent kids is not?

You need to shut the fuck up.

hockeybub89 posted...

Dude really doesn't want to hear any option besides "Rain hell on Gaza until there's nothing left". Anything else to him is "Throw down arms and apologize to Hamas for upsetting them"

I don't want to hear options that don't substantially reduce Hamas's capability to carry out further attacks. Not their motivation but their capability.

That means hitting the militants themselves, their leadership, their arms stockpiles, rocket production and storage sites, and the tunnels concealing all of the above. When people such as yourself object to those targets being hit, the logical conclusion is that you do not actually want to reduce the terrorist threat.

willythemailboy posted...

I don't want to hear options that don't substantially reduce Hamas's capability to carry out further attacks. Not their motivation but their capability.

Killing innocent children doesnt reduce Hamas capability to carry out more attacks, it increases it.

Youre just genocidal. You dont want to actually stop Hamas, you just want kids to die.

willythemailboy posted...

When people such as yourself object to those targets being hit, the logical conclusion is that you do not actually want to reduce the terrorist threat.

That isn't the objection. You're just lying now.

The objection is wether or not we should hit those targets if the cost is too much innocent life.

Notice how it doesn't follow from the preceding statement that nothing should be done to stop terrorists.

willythemailboy posted...

I don't want to hear options that don't substantially reduce Hamas's capability to carry out further attacks. Not their motivation but their capability.

That means hitting the militants themselves, their leadership, their arms stockpiles, rocket production and storage sites, and the tunnels concealing all of the above. When people such as yourself object to those targets being hit, the logical conclusion is that you do not actually want to reduce the terrorist threat.

So it's foolhardy to even suggest that you could stop Hamas from carrying out *any* further attacks because at some level any person can elect to be part of Hamas and cause whatever small scale terror they wish.

At that point, we really need to be discussing degree. So let's do it this way. Last year according to Israel MFA, 29 Israelis were killed in terror attacks by terrorist groups from Palestine. How many Palestinian civilians is an acceptable amount of collateral damage to bring things back to let's say half that level?

Shadow_Don posted...

That isn't the objection.

I've seen no evidence to support your assertion here.