Current Events > Kai Cenat is doing a sleep stream with Offrest on Twitch ...

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Ajiri 09/15/23 8:37:18 AM #1:	https://www.twitch.tv/kaicenat --- WIRED https://www.youtube.com/user/wired <cite>Ajiri posted [p:976082250] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>https://www.twitch.tv/kaicenat </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 8:38:01 AM #2:	Isn't he the one that intentionally caused a riot? Should be in jail or at least banned from streaming --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082260] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Isn't he the one that intentionally caused a riot?Should be in jail or at least banned from streaming </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DKBananaSlamma 09/15/23 8:38:02 AM #3:	Literally who doing literally what? --- Neon >_> <cite>DKBananaSlamma posted [p:976082261] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Literally who doing literally what? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cephalopods 09/15/23 8:47:02 AM #4:	I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it. <cite>Cephalopods posted [p:976082418] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hayame_Zero 09/15/23 8:48:23 AM #5:	You mean Offset? --- ...I think I'm done here... <cite>Hayame_Zero posted [p:976082442] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>You mean Offset? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ajiri 09/15/23 8:49:06 AM #6:	RuneterranSnap posted... Isn't he the one that intentionally caused a riot? Should be in jail or at least banned from streaming It was unintentional but I get your point, he was arrested and went to jail I'm not sure how long he was in jail for though maybe 1 minute or maybe 1 day who knows --- WIRED https://www.youtube.com/user/wired <cite>Ajiri posted [p:976082456] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>Isn't he the one that intentionally caused a riot?Should be in jail or at least banned from streaming</quote>It was unintentional but I get your point, he was arrested and went to jail I'm not sure how long he was in jail for though maybe 1 minute or maybe 1 day who knows </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 8:49:55 AM #7:	Ajiri posted... It was unintentional but I get your point, he was arrested and went to jail I'm not sure how long he was in jail for though maybe 1 minute or maybe 1 day who knows He was out the same day, zero accountability. And it was absolutely intentional. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082468] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Ajiri posted... </cite><quote>It was unintentional but I get your point, he was arrested and went to jail I'm not sure how long he was in jail for though maybe 1 minute or maybe 1 day who knows</quote>He was out the same day, zero accountability. And it was absolutely intentional. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ajiri 09/15/23 8:50:18 AM #8:	Cephalopods posted... I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it. I sort of hate comments such as this. I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting. --- WIRED https://www.youtube.com/user/wired <cite>Ajiri posted [p:976082472] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Cephalopods posted... </cite><quote>I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it.</quote>I sort of hate comments such as this.I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
itcheyness 09/15/23 8:50:33 AM #9:	Did anyone ever get the PS5s promised, or was that a lie? --- Seattle Sounders 10-8-6 36pts 261 Refugee <cite>itcheyness posted [p:976082476] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Did anyone ever get the PS5s promised, or was that a lie? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 8:51:54 AM #10:	Ajiri posted... I sort of hate comments such as this. I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting. No watching and donating to a sleep stream is objectively dumb especially for such an awful person. Only time it was ever funny is the resident sleeper stream --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082488] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Ajiri posted... </cite><quote>I sort of hate comments such as this.I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting.</quote>No watching and donating to a sleep stream is objectively dumb especially for such an awful person.Only time it was ever funny is the resident sleeper stream </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AbstraktProfSC2 09/15/23 8:53:47 AM #11:	RuneterranSnap posted... Isn't he the one that intentionally caused a riot? Should be in jail or at least banned from streaming lmao every time people make up some weird shit with Kai Someone from here fabricated some shit and said his career is cancelled and he went on to be the streamer with the most subs and got streamer of the year...twice ...this you? --- Talk about backseat fishing. <cite>AbstraktProfSC2 posted [p:976082516] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>Isn't he the one that intentionally caused a riot?Should be in jail or at least banned from streaming</quote>lmao every time people make up some weird shit with KaiSomeone from here fabricated some shit and said his career is cancelled and he went on to be the streamer with the most subs and got streamer of the year...twice ...this you? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 8:55:52 AM #12:	AbstraktProfSC2 posted... lmao every time people make up some weird shit with Kai Someone from here fabricated some shit and said his career is cancelled and he went on to be the streamer with the most subs and got streamer of the year...twice ...this you? I didn't make anything up and you're just showing how big the problem is. Should be banned from streaming. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082541] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>AbstraktProfSC2 posted... </cite><quote>lmao every time people make up some weird shit with KaiSomeone from here fabricated some shit and said his career is cancelled and he went on to be the streamer with the most subs and got streamer of the year...twice ...this you?</quote>I didn't make anything up and you're just showing how big the problem is.Should be banned from streaming. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 09/15/23 8:57:02 AM #13:	Ajiri posted... I sort of hate comments such as this. I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting. Watching people stream a game or some sort of activity sure go for it. Sleep? Whats wrong with people? --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:976082558] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Ajiri posted... </cite><quote>I sort of hate comments such as this.I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting.</quote>Watching people stream a game or some sort of activity sure go for it. Sleep? Whats wrong with people? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 8:58:09 AM #15:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] He intentionally did something stupid that would clearly cause a riot. He doesn't need to be protected. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082571] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> He intentionally did something stupid that would clearly cause a riot. He doesn't need to be protected. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ajiri 09/15/23 9:04:49 AM #16:	Runterran, lets just say I'm really glad you're not in charge of anything important in the world or have real power or influence.... Jesus man --- WIRED https://www.youtube.com/user/wired <cite>Ajiri posted [p:976082668] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Runterran, lets just say I'm really glad you're not in charge of anything important in the world or have real power or influence.... Jesus man </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ratchetrockon 09/15/23 9:05:32 AM #17:	Cool --- I'm a Taurus. Currently playing: Baldurs Gate 3, Carol Reed Mysteries series, DMC 3:SE (Modded), & Spyro 3.5: Return to the Forgotten Realms He/Him <cite>Ratchetrockon posted [p:976082678] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Cool </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:05:52 AM #18:	Ajiri posted... Runterran, lets just say I'm really glad you're not in charge of anything important in the world and have real power or influence.... Jesus man Nothing I've said is wrong. The dude used his influence to cause a riot. He's proven he can't be trusted with that influence and should lose the right to stream as a result. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082684] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Ajiri posted... </cite><quote>Runterran, lets just say I'm really glad you're not in charge of anything important in the world and have real power or influence.... Jesus man</quote>Nothing I've said is wrong.The dude used his influence to cause a riot. He's proven he can't be trusted with that influence and should lose the right to stream as a result. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Strider102 09/15/23 9:06:02 AM #19:	Cephalopods posted... I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it. I mean, if I had the setup I'd quit my job just to sleep stream and get paid for it. --- "I dreamt I was a moron." <cite>Strider102 posted [p:976082686] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Cephalopods posted... </cite><quote>I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it.</quote>I mean, if I had the setup I'd quit my job just to sleep stream and get paid for it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ooger 09/15/23 9:06:03 AM #20:	Who? --- Dumpy Trumpy: Inmate No. P01135809 <cite>ooger posted [p:976082687] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Who? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gritty 09/15/23 9:06:04 AM #21:	Cephalopods posted... I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it. Yeah, its something I dont understand with millennials and Zoomers. <cite>Gritty posted [p:976082688] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Cephalopods posted... </cite><quote>I'm still blown away that thousands of people will just watch some fuckin dude sleep and even donate money to it.</quote>Yeah, its something I dont understand with millennials and Zoomers. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ajiri 09/15/23 9:06:05 AM #22:	Kai just woke up! He's having a fresh cold Coca-Cola --- WIRED https://www.youtube.com/user/wired <cite>Ajiri posted [p:976082689] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Kai just woke up!He's having a fresh cold Coca-Cola </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Cephalopods 09/15/23 9:06:37 AM #24:	Ajiri posted... I sort of hate comments such as this. I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting. I'm not criticizing streaming in its entirety, I'm saying this particular subset of it is dumb as fuck and anyone who enjoys it is a terrible person. <cite>Cephalopods posted [p:976082701] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Ajiri posted... </cite><quote>I sort of hate comments such as this.I'm sure if you presented your hobby to the world many people would find it "boring" or uninteresting.</quote>I'm not criticizing streaming in its entirety, I'm saying this particular subset of it is dumb as fuck and anyone who enjoys it is a terrible person.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 09/15/23 9:07:07 AM #25:	Lot of people in certain circles try to say Kai Cenat provoked a riot because he and his audience are black --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:976082708] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Lot of people in certain circles try to say Kai Cenat provoked a riot because he and his audience are black </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:12:27 AM #26:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences which proceed to occur, you intentionally caused those consequences. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082783] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences which proceed to occur, you intentionally caused those consequences. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AbstraktProfSC2 09/15/23 9:12:58 AM #27:	everybody, including Kai, knows it was stupid because the event clearly needed much better planning but making stuff up and saying it was intentional to incite a riot is weird you have a hate boner for Kai lmao --- Talk about backseat fishing. <cite>AbstraktProfSC2 posted [p:976082791] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>everybody, including Kai, knows it was stupid because the event clearly needed much better planning but making stuff up and saying it was intentional to incite a riot is weirdyou have a hate boner for Kai lmao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 09/15/23 9:14:12 AM #28:	RuneterranSnap posted... If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences Lmao "immoral". Dude said he'd be in NYC to have an impromptu meet and greet for any fans in the area and giveaway some gaming gear. Would it have been immoral if the # of people who showed up was the reasonable amount he expected? --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:976082809] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences</quote>Lmao "immoral". Dude said he'd be in NYC to have an impromptu meet and greet for any fans in the area and giveaway some gaming gear. Would it have been immoral if the # of people who showed up was the reasonable amount he expected? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:16:54 AM #29:	Doe posted... Lmao "immoral". Dude said he'd be in NYC to have an impromptu meet and greet for any fans in the area and giveaway some gaming gear. Would it have been immoral if the # of people who showed up was the reasonable amount he expected? It's immoral because he knew exactly what was going to happen and had zero intent to actually give anything away. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082846] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Lmao "immoral". Dude said he'd be in NYC to have an impromptu meet and greet for any fans in the area and giveaway some gaming gear. Would it have been immoral if the # of people who showed up was the reasonable amount he expected?</quote>It's immoral because he knew exactly what was going to happen and had zero intent to actually give anything away. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:21:31 AM #31:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] RuneterranSnap posted... If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences which proceed to occur, you intentionally caused those consequences. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976082905] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences which proceed to occur, you intentionally caused those consequences.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Doe 09/15/23 9:27:20 AM #33:	RuneterranSnap posted... If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences which proceed to occur, you intentionally caused those consequences. You're literally assuming the conclusion LMAO --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:976082983] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>If you intentionally do something immoral and illegal and it has obvious consequences which proceed to occur, you intentionally caused those consequences.</quote>You're literally assuming the conclusion LMAO </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:28:49 AM #34:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] It's obvious in general. If he didn't know what's going to happen, that's on him and doesn't absolve him of blame. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083000] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> It's obvious in general. If he didn't know what's going to happen, that's on him and doesn't absolve him of blame. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Doe 09/15/23 9:32:00 AM #36:	RuneterranSnap posted... If he didn't know what's going to happen, that's on him and doesn't absolve him of blame. Not believing the action will have such consequences is literally an affirmative defense to the charge of inciting a riot in New York, since the statute requires intentional and reckless conduct. --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:976083053] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>If he didn't know what's going to happen, that's on him and doesn't absolve him of blame.</quote>Not believing the action will have such consequences is literally an affirmative defense to the charge of inciting a riot in New York, since the statute requires intentional and reckless conduct. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:33:38 AM #37:	Doe posted... Not believing the action will have such consequences is literally an affirmative defense to the charge of inciting a riot in New York, since the statute requires intentional and reckless conduct. Shhhh adults are talking [LFAQs-redacted-quote] It doesn't. He acted maliciously and it had the predictable effect. Nothing I've said makes him seem any more malicious than actual reality. [LFAQs-redacted-quote] No he didn't. He had no intention of giving anything away. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083080] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>Not believing the action will have such consequences is literally an affirmative defense to the charge of inciting a riot in New York, since the statute requires intentional and reckless conduct.</quote>Shhhh adults are talking<cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> It doesn't. He acted maliciously and it had the predictable effect. Nothing I've said makes him seem any more malicious than actual reality.<cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> No he didn't. He had no intention of giving anything away. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 09/15/23 9:35:14 AM #38:	RuneterranSnap posted... Shhhh adults are talking tagged and moving on, everyone else please do the same --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:976083111] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>Shhhh adults are talking</quote>tagged and moving on, everyone else please do the same </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChrisTaka 09/15/23 9:37:51 AM #39:	RuneterranSnap posted... Shhhh adults are talking It doesn't. He acted maliciously and it had the predictable effect. Nothing I've said makes him seem any more malicious than actual reality. No he didn't. He had no intention of giving anything away. Just say you don't like him lmao --- ChrisTaka's not-alt <cite>ChrisTaka posted [p:976083163] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>RuneterranSnap posted... </cite><quote>Shhhh adults are talkingIt doesn't. He acted maliciously and it had the predictable effect. Nothing I've said makes him seem any more malicious than actual reality.No he didn't. He had no intention of giving anything away.</quote>Just say you don't like him lmao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:38:05 AM #40:	Doe posted... tagged and moving on, everyone else please do the same Oh no I've been tagged what ever will I do --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083165] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>tagged and moving on, everyone else please do the same</quote>Oh no I've been tagged what ever will I do </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:38:45 AM #41:	ChrisTaka posted... Just say you don't like him lmao Of course I don't like him. I, and everyone else in here, has very good reason not to like him, he did something shitty and dangerous. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083174] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>ChrisTaka posted... </cite><quote>Just say you don't like him lmao</quote>Of course I don't like him. I, and everyone else in here, has very good reason not to like him, he did something shitty and dangerous. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ratchetrockon 09/15/23 9:39:00 AM #42:	Damn his hands are in his pants wtf that's crazy --- I'm a Taurus. Currently playing: Baldurs Gate 3, Carol Reed Mysteries series, DMC 3:SE (Modded), & Spyro 3.5: Return to the Forgotten Realms He/Him <cite>Ratchetrockon posted [p:976083176] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Damn his hands are in his pants wtf that's crazy </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ooger 09/15/23 9:46:46 AM #44:	ooger posted... Who? --- Dumpy Trumpy: Inmate No. P01135809 <cite>ooger posted [p:976083325] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>ooger posted... </cite><quote>Who?</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:50:16 AM #45:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] He gathered people for a giveaway in a public area that he had no intent on going through with. That's malice. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083371] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> He gathered people for a giveaway in a public area that he had no intent on going through with.That's malice. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Doe 09/15/23 9:56:20 AM #47:	ken he's not arguing in good faith, like at all --- https://imgur.com/gallery/dXDmJHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY <cite>Doe posted [p:976083480] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>ken he's not arguing in good faith, like at all </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:57:49 AM #48:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] No it's completely relevant. --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083510] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> No it's completely relevant. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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RuneterranSnap 09/15/23 9:58:45 AM #50:	Doe posted... ken he's not arguing in good faith, like at all Hey he's still better then the last guy when the riot happened that was arguing up and down there never even was a riot, who was that --- Joyrock/DSFlashlight/OctilIery <cite>RuneterranSnap posted [p:976083535] in Kai Cenat ... [t:80566542]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite><quote>ken he's not arguing in good faith, like at all</quote>Hey he's still better then the last guy when the riot happened that was arguing up and down there never even was a riot, who was that </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Kai Cenat is doing a sleep stream with Offrest on Twitch ... (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Kai Cenat is doing a sleep stream with Offrest on Twitch ...