Current Events > Is Akira Toriyama a good writer?

(+) Yeah! (+)

What is your opinion on this?

goku is a very realistically written bad father

I consider him essentially a pulp or entertainment writer

Kaiganeer posted...

goku is a very realistically written bad father

lol
but ChiChi not divorcing him and Gohan not hating him, is that well written?

No.

Dragonball is literally just Journey to the West but with a bunch of stupid anime tropes.

No, not even close.

His manga brought many people into anime, but it has absolutely nothing to do with an amazing well written plot.

No grammar or spelling mistakes so yes

He has his talents, and hes one of the best there are at paneling, but I would say no. Especially in Z. DragonBall is much better written than DBZ.

Who ever accused him of being a good writer?

Like compared to Shakespeare, obviously not. But for turn off your brain entertainment, better than many.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

No grammar or spelling mistakes so yes

that credit would go to an editor unless he doesn't use one, if not then that is impressive

A_Good_Boy posted...

Who ever accused him of being a good writer?

Most anime fans put DBZ on a pedestal it doesnt really deserve to be on, so thats the implication.

I like his stuff but he is objectivly a terrible writer

No one can tell me that from the start of Z to the end of the Frieza arc isn't incredibly well constructed.

Everything else though...?

Who else has had the genius to create 14 different hidden timelines, never mentioned or hinted at, to full flesh out (...correct...) pretty much the simplest possible time travel plot?

Cemith posted...

No one can tell me that from the start of Z to the end of the Frieza arc isn't incredibly well constructed.

Everything else though...?

I'd argue it's just more well constructed compared to the rest of his story.

It is certainly no masterpiece, or amazing well constructed plot that DBZ fans hype it up to be.

I like Dragon Ball in general but picked the first option.

He's a gag manga writer and is better at bizarre or goofy situations. He basically sort of lucked into making a shonen that would influence the genre, and was pretty much required to come up with expansive lore to keep it going. But he was never any good at fleshing that sort of thing out, and it never improved either.

Before 'Super' I would have easily voted yes.

But after Super, heck no.

Some things he does fine, some things he completely forgets or doesn't know how to actually handle (like Goku just pulling Super Saiyan 3 out of nowhere, Vegeta just suddenly appearing in Super Saiyan God and Blue forms with no explanation, ETC)

His talent is in character design and paneling out battles in a way that comes across clearly on a page. Dragonball worldbuilding was interesting for a moment when they introduced Saiyans but never really did anything after that, and they're just a ripoff of Superman. The only reasonably compelling character is Vegeta as a classic Lancer turned good. Gohan has an ok moment or two. Goku is literally comic relief and Sean Schemmel's voice acting is the only reason English audiences think there's something deep going on there.

There are some elements of world building he has done well, even if a lot of it is borrowing heavily from Journey to the West and Superman, and he does have a knack for creating genuinely exciting hype moments. But no, those positives are outweighed by endless amounts of fluff and bullshit.

Cemith posted...

No one can tell me that from the start of Z to the end of the Frieza arc isn't incredibly well constructed.

Everything else though...?

Of course they can. Even the Frieza Saga was pretty poor and mostly liked because it was unique more than anything else. It being dramatically better than everything else isn't it being well written, it's just that everything else is flagrantly bad.

He's a hack

He's good at something, but I don't really know how to describe it. He has the ability to draw watchers/readers in despite not being a compelling writer, consistent on lore, or really reliable at all.

Nemu posted...

He's good at something, but I don't really know how to describe it. He has the ability to draw watchers/readers in despite not being a compelling writer, consistent on lore, or really reliable at all.

I think if you had never seen DBZ and you picked it up now, you would have a really hard time sticking with it.

He's got a great creative mind for writing. His main struggles come from not having a clear direction. He makes things up as he goes along and often forgets details of his own story when adding to it.

Yes, hes managed to write some of the most powerful characters in fiction. Gokus power level is up to the septillions.

Toriyama only ever had a few chapters planned at a time, when you realize that it is pretty incredible what he was able to do with Dragon Ball over all those years without getting too lost in the sauce. I also think AT's humor is way better than most modern mangas, despite being from the 80s.

Pretty much any modern day mangaka will credit AT and Dragon Ball as a huge inspiration for their own work, regularly topping lists of the greatest mangakas of all time, often compared to people like Jack Kirby. Despite what all the edgy weebs here want to think, AT is objectively a "good writer"

Nemu posted...

He's good at something, but I don't really know how to describe it. He has the ability to draw watchers/readers in despite not being a compelling writer, consistent on lore, or really reliable at all.

I think it is hype building.
For instance "Goku shakes the infinite void!" OH MY SO HYPE WOW AMBLALBHABLHA!

If you turn you brain back on though, not only does it make no sense it breaks the established rules of the narrative itself and cracks apart the whole storyline and the events that come after

I think this is why there is so many Goku vs. X debate that goes on. Cause people buy into the hype but it falls apart under the simplest scrutiny. But fans are so obsessed with the idea that it could make sense and they try so hard to like explain it from physics or math and put so much time and effort when in the end it is an impossible job and the writer himself just contradicts himself later. For example the bullets hurting Goku things. Boy does that really rile up DBZ fans.

If selling a lot of comics and cartoons to small boys makes you a good writer, yes. But if being a good writer has to do with writing a cohesive and compelling story with characters that have more to them than a single running gag, i'm not so sure.

PraetorXyn posted...

Most anime fans put DBZ on a pedestal it doesnt really deserve to be on, so thats the implication.

Most DBZ fans hates DBZ and especially AT.

The series is clearly made up as he goes

No might be ranked in the lower 10 million+ of writers since the dawn of time

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Yes, hes managed to write some of the most powerful characters in fiction. Gokus power level is up to the septillions.

This is one of the biggest non sequiturs Ive ever seen. A characters strength has no bearing in and of itself on how well that character is written.

Goku is one of the most basic characters of all time, and the way hes written is all over the place, with none of it being great.

PraetorXyn posted...

This is one of the biggest non sequiturs Ive ever seen. A characters strength has no bearing in and of itself on how well that character is written.

Goku is one of the most basic characters of all time, and the way hes written is all over the place, with none of it being great.

I think that post actually sums up DBZ fanboyism quite well tbh.

You missed the pun.

Jagr_68 posted...

No might be ranked in the lower 10 million+ of writers since the dawn of time

You're underestimating how many writers there are since the dawn of time. He's not good but he's probably not even in the bottom 1 billion

I'd describe his writing skills as competent. He's not a top tier writer by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he deserves credit for writing a beloved action/adventure franchise. I've read enough mediocre to bad fanfiction that you can do a lot lot worse than Akira Toriyama.

I mean he is great as in imagination and being entertaining

He's absolutely dogshit at everything in terms of a critical analysis. But that's almost the point, he makes fun action junk for kids.

PMarth2002 posted...

I'd describe his writing skills as competent. He's not a top tier writer by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he deserves credit for writing a beloved action/adventure franchise. I've read enough mediocre to bad fanfiction that you can do a lot lot worse than Akira Toriyama.

Yeah this was pretty much my point. He's a better writer than 99% of people posing on gamefaqs anyway.

PMarth2002 posted...

I'd describe his writing skills as competent. He's not a top tier writer by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he deserves credit for writing a beloved action/adventure franchise. I've read enough mediocre to bad fanfiction that you can do a lot lot worse than Akira Toriyama.

Ya but the topic clearly isn't asking is Akiras writing capabilities on par with the average Gfaqs poster.

Contextually it shouldnt need to be explained it's asking with in comparison to other established great writers.

To that, my answer is a hard no. There's is definitely a difference in sucessfully creating something that attracts a fan base and creating well written deep story.

DragonBall amd it's story is about as deep as a shallow kiddie pool. The story does a great job of attracting children through various things like flashy moves, flashy explosions, flashy fighting, flashy transformations for days, and etc.

However there's a big distinction from creating a series that's popular or successful and creating something that has a well written story. A series can definitely be popular for reasons that have little to do with the story itself being well thought out.