Current Events > I was hoping TOTK would go back to the classic dungeon style but I'm disappoint

(+) Yeah! (+)

Unfortunately, the lemmings love the new direction

Argumentum ad populum is exactly the reason I used that word. Popular /= Good.

Great way to make sure that no one takes your opinion serious. You're nothing special whatsoever, you're not a "real" fan and you won't be missed by anyone.

Argumentum ad populum is exactly the reason I used that word. Popular /= Good.

Hey actually let's take this a different way.

Hey Praetor.

What is it that you think contributed to Breath of the Wild's popularity?

"But I don't want that! I want a classic, bloated, linear slogfest of a dungeon where the all-too-obvious puzzles revolve around a new item that's essential for about fifteen minutes and then borderline worthless for the rest of the game!"

Yeah, sad to see the direction Zelda has gone

"But I don't want that! I want a classic, bloated, linear slogfest of a dungeon where the all-too-obvious puzzles revolve around a new item that's essential for about fifteen minutes and then borderline worthless for the rest of the game!"

I mean, the shrines in this game just have you use the same four items over and over again.

first in a possibly interesting way as a tutorial, then one more time as a challenge

lets not pretend this game doesnt have a strict formula it adheres to, that is basically exactly the same as the previous game

I was going to say, the gall to call a linear game bloated when comparing it to an open world game thats actually a few hours long and padded to fill out a hundred plus hours.

I mean, the shrines in this game just have you use the same four items over and over again.

first in a possibly interesting way as a tutorial, then one more time as a challenge

lets not pretend this game doesnt have a strict formula it adheres to, that is basically exactly the same as the previous game

As much as I hate to rain on your parade of landing a prize-winning contradiction, 'traditional' Zelda dungeons (particularly in the 3D eras onward) end up feeling bloated because you are more or less stuck there until you complete them. The reason why myself and others saw the Shrine formula as a breath of fresh air is both their bite-sized approach to puzzle solving and the fact that they are optional, stumble-upon, and the vast majority can be done in any order.

And judging by your earlier complaint that you'll never 100% BotW due to the Korok Seeds - a mechanic that so painfully obviously serves as a deconstruction of the standard collect-a-thons, in which a ridiculously large total amount of collectibles is available yet the bar of functional in-game rewards so relatively low that you will find more than enough organically, and not only are you never incentivized to collect them all, the game actually razzes you for doing so - BotW's 'bloat' might just be a you problem.

The 3D Zeldas are largely meh compared to the 2D ones. OoT is in contention for most overhyped game of all time with FF7. I dont remember much of Twilight Princess at all, other than adult Midna being hot to me when I saw it. I remember Windwaker a little more, but have still forgotten most of it. I didnt play Skyward Sword because I fucking hated the motion controls enough in Twilight Princess (I played the Wii version).

On the subject of the items, I actually thought A Link Between Worlds was incredible, and Im the time you rent all the items at the start of the game.

Yep, ALBW was a great way to marry the non-linear aspect with traditional Zelda. I absolutely hope they do something like that moving forward cause TOTK ain't it. I liked BOTW at first but over time the cracks began to really show and TOTK did nothing to address that same failure. After 30 hours or so, I am bored of TOTK.

Making silly shit is still funny though, but in the end still isn't an engaging mechanic over 100+ hours.

I was going to say, the gall to call a linear game bloated when comparing it to an open world game thats actually a few hours long and padded to fill out a hundred plus hours.

The game isn't padded out though. What they did was fill the world with a lot of stuff and let the player decide whether they want to engage with it or not. You still do have to adhere to certain gameplay mechanics, but everything else is up to you. You can do just the main quest, or do all the shrines, or try and 100% the entire game. Ultimately, whether this content is meaningful or not is highly subjective. But clearly there are many more people who do think it is meaningful than those that don't.

I do heavily agree that if Nintendo does continue in this direction with Zelda, they should also continue making traditional Zelda games. There's no reason multiple Zelda games can't be worked on at once, especially if you assume the second series would be a 2D Zelda.

The game isn't padded out though. What they did was fill the world with a lot of stuff and let the player decide whether they want to engage with it or not. You still do have to adhere to certain gameplay mechanics, but everything else is up to you. You can do just the main quest, or do all the shrines, or try and 100% the entire game. Ultimately, whether this content is meaningful or not is highly subjective. But clearly there are many more people who do think it is meaningful than those that don't.

I do heavily agree that if Nintendo does continue in this direction with Zelda, they should also continue making traditional Zelda games. There's no reason multiple Zelda games can't be worked on at once, especially if you assume the second series would be a 2D Zelda.

I can see Nintendo giving the traditional formula another go in the 2D era. It's a good stop gap between these big games.

But there's no reason at all to go back to the traditional formula for the big 3D ones. You can tell they were struggling making it interesting with Skyward Sword.

no one is making Zelda games in the style of the 3D games. Nintendo kneecaps themselves by requiring games in certain franchises to have some big new gimmick. No reason they cant just make a really great game that follows the general Ocarina of Time formula. No one else is doing it

Open world collectathons are always padded. Compare side quests now to how side quests used to be. In the SNES Final Fantasies, there are only about 5 side quests in each, but they are mostly pretty good and all give you something useful, like a new summon, the Paladin Shield, etc. In Final Fantasy 16 there are probably 50 side quests, but most of them will suck and give you nothing but Potions and Gil. Breath of the Wilds quests are no different. A few of them are good, most of them arent. A small number of Shrines are good, most of them arent, etc.

I dont even so much mind it being open world, but I think it would be a much better game if the world was a quarter of the size and they put a lot more effort into fleshing it out.

What you said though is correct. This is especially true when the TotK sequel will probably cost a thousand times what it would cost to make a 2D Zelda and would take multiple times linger to make, so making a 2D Zelda carries no risk.

They already did that. Like 5 times. Not including all of the 2D games. Eventually it's going to feel tired which is why sales were never growing and why enthusiasm was waning.

Why do you think nobody else is doing it? Darksiders tried it and nobody cared. These style of games aren't really competitive enough to compete in the modern market. They're not long enough and they're too restricted. It'll be up to an indie developer now.

What can be done with the traditional formula in a big budget 3D Zelda game that they can't just do with a top down Zelda?

Darksiders has sold enough that theres four games and its an ongoing franchise

and no, they didnt do that 5 times. Every game has had to have some big game-changing gimmick. The most similar two are TP and OoT and even TP has the wolf stuff

dont understand why there are people who think the formula was tired when they essentially released one game every 4 or 5 years and they all had major differences

dont get me wrong BotW/TotK are fun but its a bummer that its at the expense of getting a game that feels like the franchise its part of

How did the last couple even sell?

And yet the overall structure was still overall traditional and pretty familiar outside of Majora's Mask at most.

How many long running gaming franchises are still overall designed the same as they were in the 90s at this point?

Did you play Skyward Sword? Did that not feel like a developer running out of ideas to you?

As I said I'm sure they can do the traditional formula just fine in 2D. Ambitions and the design can stay focused in that format and it doesn't matter if the game only sells a few million copies.

It seems strange to me that people say the recent Zeldas don't play like classic Zeldas.

You can pretty much play them in the same exact way and get a very similar experience. If you choose to go off and spend time only doing open world exploration stuff, that's a choice you made. It didn't need to happen.

good enough to be considered successes and for the developer to claim they will continue the franchise

wind Waker and skyward sword were big departures from that structure as well

they dont have to be the same, but they dont have to totally discard everything. See: Super Mario Odyssey and Pikmin 4 as examples of modernizing a franchise without ditching the core gameplay

no, it felt like nintendo trying to reinvent the wheel

But will they?

There is one thing I would ask for in TotK.

I would ask for a choice to get a spoiler telling you how much time a quest will take at the beginning.

For instance I spot an object. Instead of just trying stuff I want the choice of asking how much time to follow to completion.

One has to sleep and it is impossible to know if something will take 15 minutes or 3 hours.