Current Events > Star Trek Borg are dropped into WH40k

(+) Yeah! (+)

how do they "own" space marines? it's entirely possible that space marines are just immune to their nanites.

Robot2600 posted...

how do they "own" space marines? it's entirely possible that space marines are just immune to their nanites.

Unlikely.

But then, I think the hard counter to the Borg is NOT the Imperium. Even outside of chaos, I would suggest the Necron can take them. And maybe the orks because orks are orks and will just do ork things to somehow win.

The imperium if anything is weak to them since what with the Adeptus Mechanicus and such, they basically have a significant force that is easy to "corrupt" to the Borg's side.

Of course, in the end, the hardest of counters is Chaos itself. AI and similar things tend to do exceptionally poorly against Chaos, having potentially a worse track record against it than actual biologicals do.

Pretty sure the Borg "assimilating the Tyranids" would actually be more a merger of the hive minds, at which point you get just Tyranids with low-end cybernetics plus the ability to either assimilate or eat their enemies as they see fit.

Doe posted...

Q is a good thing to bring up, is there anything like the Q Collective in 40K?

The Q are more or less omnipotent chaotic neutral gods, they can do things that aren't exactly sporting in an all out war setting.

ArkhamOrigins posted...

The Q would be laughed out of the 40k universe and wouldn't even be given a 2nd thought. If for some reason they all joined forces (which they wouldn't) they would just send the Orks to take them out, since they essentially have the same power.

Sounds like you don't know much about the Q? Qs can accidentally destroy entire galaxies. They can shrink starships to the size of Christmas tree ornaments just for fun. Alter the universe's gravitational constant. They're clairvoyant, full telepaths, complete power over technology and other biological beings. A pissed off Q can just Thanos snap whatever they don't like out of existence, but they're more likely to psychologically torment you first.

Q is not part of the borg. Why are we bringing reality warpers from Star Trek into this when it is just Borg vs 40k? Did the borg assimilate Q when I wasn't looking? If so, why did they not within a span of a couple years or less already assimilate the entire Milky Way?

Sephiroth_C_Ryu posted...

Q is not part of the borg. Why are we bringing reality warpers from Star Trek into this when it is just Borg vs 40k? Did the borg assimilate Q when I wasn't looking? If so, why did they not within a span of a couple years or less already assimilate the entire Milky Way?

No. Q was brought up as an example of the kinds of bullshit Trek has used in the past to "stop the Borg"

The Borg don't win every battle, but the people who do beat them are either omnipotent or have access to some kind of thing that specifically counters the Borg and isn't as effective on other things.

Tyranthraxus posted...

No. Q was brought up as an example of the kinds of bullshit Trek has used in the past to "stop the Borg"

The Borg don't win every battle, but the people who do beat them are either omnipotent or have access to some kind of thing that specifically counters the Borg and isn't as effective on other things.

Chaos is the latter. It as close to explicitly counters the Borg as it can.

Necron and Orks may potentially do so too, though for Orks, that is entirely reliant on them being Orky as possible.

Edit if it matters: The Borg basically hard counter the Imperium of Mankind. Sorry, space marine fans, but but sometimes you have to accept Rock Paper Scissors.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/9/9/AAA_aCAAEwBz.jpg
Remember when Q became a Borg?

Foppe posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/9/9/AAA_aCAAEwBz.jpg
Remember when Q became a Borg?

Do go on. What was the plot. How permanent? Did he do it intentionally? Please continue with every part of everything regarding that.

Sephiroth_C_Ryu posted...

Do go on. What was the plot. How permanent? Did he do it intentionally? Please continue with every part of everything regarding that.

It's a same-actor joke.

Doesn't this depend on which Borg? I mean any rendition of Borgs are pretty weak against like one-shots. Unless there's something in WH40k that one shots the entirety of the Borg race, they are generally at least supposed to be able to adapt to anything. The problem is that for the sake of narrative convenience and also just flat out different writers with motives, Borgs often get nerfed or completely betray the myths about their power level. Of course that could mean the myths are false but if we do assume it's all true, their only weakness outside essentially lucking into a stray Borg who can become a parasite that destroys the collective from the inside is just a massive scale one shotting bombardment, or enough large scale bombardments with constantly varying properties so they can't adapt to it.

But if they happen to get the jump on a few key WH40k races and take them by surprise, who knows where it could go? Those kinds of theoreticals are definitely more fun, cuz like you can basically say Borgs are shit by starting them off lined up neatly in a single file line, and just shoot a giant beam through them all instantly. What's the point at that point?

Also funny that some people bring up Q, when in this very topic, it was mentioned that God level beings can definitely make waves in WH40K. Q in TNG etc is represented by a single person, but there is basically a collective of Q further above the Q the representative that just flat out controls everything. If something like Q existed in WH40k, they're probably the ones responsible for letting this universe happen in the first place. How can you even compete against that?

Link_of_time posted...

Borg seem pretty weak to melee combat. I think they wreck IG but lose pretty handily to everyone else.

No, Borg are really strong, it's just that in Star Trek everyone uses ranged energy weapons. If they need to, they can swat away Klingons and other physically powerful species. They only have trouble with someone like Data who is a uniquely advanced robot designed by a once in many generations genius.

legendarylemur posted...

The problem is that for the sake of narrative convenience and also just flat out different writers with motives, Borgs often get nerfed or completely betray the myths about their power level.

Yup. I guess my knowledge of 40K is lacking, but they don't seem to be focused on sciencey-based meta solutions, but rather on raw military power.

The narrative convenience of the Borg really started to show in Star trek: Voyager where they were relying on Borg more for the ratings bump than anything.

Doe posted...

It's a same-actor joke.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/5/AAA_aCAAEwC_.jpg
More like you fucked up in the interactive movie game.

It's pretty relevant that the Borg cannot adapt to kinetic energy. You hit them hard or shoot them with bullets? They're not able to adapt, or at least have never been shown to be able to. Even holographic bullets that are made of light and force fields work.

Seems a very relevant point in the 40k universe.

Foppe posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/5/AAA_aCAAEwC_.jpg
More like you fucked up in the interactive movie game.

Oops lol guess I was thinking of Weyoun actor juggling roles

legendarylemur posted...

Unless there's something in WH40k that one shots the entirety of the Borg race

Basically Chaos because 40k Warp shenanigans and such. Though technically, it won't destroy the Borg, it will just take over the Borg and then one or more of the Chaos gods will have new toys to play with (maybe not Nergle though, they probably aren't his thing).

Edit: This may be wrong though because the Borg have machine components too. Which may mean that, instead of being taken over, they instead seek to just eradicate all life without assimilating it, and remove whatever biological aspects they have while doing so. At which point, they are not really the Borg any more, but just a Star Trek themed Men of Iron.

So either they get corrupted by chaos, or they stop being the Borg and become Terminators on a galactic scale instead in order to fight Chaos.

I'm imagining this scenario where a Borg cube goes into WH warp and gets corrupted by chaos. As a defense mechanism, the collective completely cuts off that cube, but they're still there and make their own new chaos collective and now you have insane demon Borg running around.

As others have said there are factions that would give them trouble but if they get a foothold the more traditional races will eventually lose especially with their movement ability without having to risk the warp every time. Humans, Tau, Eldar...basically they are just on borrowed time. The issue comes with the more alien stuff like Necrons and Tyranids, although Chaos would cause problems up front but as the borg spread and sentient life basically mutes down to drones the Warp would basically get starved back to prehistoric levels. Orks could pose a problem but I see borg just abandoning and eradicating any Ork infested world if assimilation wouldn't work Some people realllllly overestimate what 40k can do, they win usually by numbers and big crazy weapons but there is some major misconceptions on the setting's actual power levels.

There is some debate as to whether a Star Trek type warp drive can actually work in the 40k galaxy.

Originally, the Tau were effectively using a slower version of one, but that was later retconned as them just "skipping" off the immaterium in short jumps.

The 40k Warp is... interesting when it comes to travel times though. As in, when you make a jump, its possible you arrive at your destination a thousand years earlier. OR almost immediately. Or in the past, effectively going back in time.

Chaos itself seems to be playing some kind of "game" too, and thus seemingly will not usually work together or use their full reality warping powers (planets and star systems will seemingly randomly appear and disappear within the warp at their whims, but for the most part they don't just will military forces into existence, despite the fact that they can and occasionally do ressurect the dead and their equipment good as new for their amusement, the most notable instance of which being Khorn warping a bunch of orks to his home planet and bringing both them (who are basically in Ork heaven as a result) and his now significantly less happy demons back to life each morning).

In short, Chaos will find a way to make the borg, well, not defeat or "starve" the Chaos at least.

That said, the borg DO have one ace up their sleeve potentially, and that would be to... time travel themselves. Go back in time to, say, 10k or something, and assimilate there. Though this may be about when Humanity is in its Federation stage and still has all the OP cool time-warping black hole cannons and such (in a rare instance of one of these weapon system activating in the modern 40k, it basically deleted an Eldar ship from existance by firing a black hole backwards in time several seconds to make it impossible to dodge).

Humanity until the whole AI rebellion and birth of Slanesh things had some pretty nifty kit.

Technically I don't think they could survive an attack by Psykers because it's not even a physical thing.

Psychic stuff is a wildcard, yes. But there is some extent of that in Star Trek too, rarely. Have the Borg ever dealt with such a thing?

I figure for some reason the borg considers time travel to be not an option. There's many times they could have used it to their advantage but never did and time travel is pretty rare in Trek anyway. It's more like a plot framing narrative device and not a strategy in war.

Sephiroth_C_Ryu posted...

Psychic stuff is a wildcard, yes. But there is some extent of that in Star Trek too, rarely. Have the Borg ever dealt with such a thing?

There's betazoids and such that pose no threat whatsoever. There's stronger aliens with godlike but not Q level powers however they've never interacted with the Borg.

Sephiroth_C_Ryu posted...

There is some debate as to whether a Star Trek type warp drive can actually work in the 40k galaxy.

I always approach debates like this with the assumption that both sides' tech/magic works just fine. It's simpler that way lol

itcheyness posted...

I always approach debates like this with the assumption that both sides' tech/magic works just fine. It's simpler that way lol

Indeed. If the borg cannot FTL there isn't much of a topic.

God Emperor solos

Priere posted...

God Emperor solos

An incapacitated zombie that can't get up from his chair isn't going to solo anything

you cant really get a gauge of what any 40k faction is truly capable of because the tabletop game limits what the lore is allowed to do

thats why every major event in the 40k universe happened way before the current setting

like, its implied that if tyranids actually launched a full scale invasion of our galaxy, everyone would be fucked with absolutely no recourse, but itll never happen because the tabletop game depends on literally nothing ever happening in the story besides introducing new factions (or pretending underselling ones dont exist)

probably the most significant thing to happen in the last decade ive seen is that they recently unveiled a chaos demigod thats allied with abaddon. everything else is just pointless skirmishes that end with someone running away or miraculously surviving.

like ragnar blackmane fought the de facto ork faction leader, and won by decapitation. orks just stapled his head back on and he got a new model to reflect it lol

Tyranthraxus posted...

There's betazoids and such that pose no threat whatsoever. There's stronger aliens with godlike but not Q level powers however they've never interacted with the Borg.

There is a running theory that Q aimed the Federation at the Borg because for some reason they had some fear of interaction with them. Borg are seemingly aware of alterations to 4th dimension, and we know that they were wary of Guinan's race because of this same ability. The idea is that they the Federation against the Borg so wouldn't have to risk dealing with them.

FighterMcWar posted...

There is a running theory that Q aimed the Federation at the Borg because for some reason they had some fear of interaction with them. Borg are seemingly aware of alterations to 4th dimension, and we know that they were wary of Guinan's race because of this same ability. The idea is that they the Federation against the Borg so wouldn't have to risk dealing with them.

That seems like overthinking things. Q did it to humble Picard who had gotten really arrogant. Occam's razor and all that.

But how would the Borg fare in Bloodbowl?

Torgo posted...

No, Borg are really strong, it's just that in Star Trek everyone uses ranged energy weapons. If they need to, they can swat away Klingons and other physically powerful species. They only have trouble with someone like Data who is a uniquely advanced robot designed by a once in many generations genius.

Space Marines are like augmented humans(ENT) that wear Data for body armor.

Tyranthraxus posted...

That seems like overthinking things. Q did it to humble Picard who had gotten really arrogant. Occam's razor and all that.

Honestly Occam's razor aligns more with the previous post, than Q delving the federation into the apocalypse just to teach a human captain a life lesson. But I guess that's just Q.

Link_of_time posted...

onestly Occam's razor aligns more with the previous post, than Q delving the federation into the apocalypse just to teach a human captain a life lesson. But I guess that's just Q.

Q had no respect for humanity, so it kind of lines up with his early role as an antagonist. We should also consider that Season 1 was really still feeling out what TNG was going to be like and so his actions there might be sort of soft-retconned by later seasons. At the very least, Qs punishment is indicative that he had gone too far too many times when it came to humanity.

There's a minor race with trillions of soldiers than don't have FTL, but whose ships go toe to toe with the Imperium. They also chill right below Segmentum Solar. The Imperium couldn't give less of a shit, because they're not FTL.

40k wins this one handily. Borg would sit comfortably on the side-grade races like Slaugth, Ragdan, Ensalvers, anything in the ghoul stars, etc. They're vulnerable to both kinetic weaponry and alternate dimension crap.

Send them to the warp. Send them to Commorragh. Send them anywhere in the Webway. 40k Imperium is mostly kinetic where it matters; macro batteries on a single Gloriana Class would wreck a cube. Sure, every Borg in the ST universe dropped on Terra might not go smoothly at all but 40k numbers are so ridiculously inflated with Vegeta level powerscaling that it's just silly.

Borg vs

Imperium: Lose
Orks: Mega lose
Tyranids: Hard to say, leaning towards win.
Eldar: Win
Dark Eldar: Mega lose
Tau: Win
Necrons: lol
Chaos: lol
Votann: Win.