Current Events > Where do you go to avoid "the man always pay for a date!"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It just bothers me that this is standard. St the video below what really struck me was what lady says. "Why go 50/50 on a date? If so I can go by myself or bring a friend. That way I can guarantee I can have a good time." So does that mean the guy is no interesting? Then why bother go if he is not interesting? A free meal?
Everyone, please do coffee dates or do the Applebee's 2 for 20.

Source:
https://fb.watch/l_CDXSq0Eo/?mibextid=NnVzG8

The dude insulted her first saying she's not worth his time. And ultimately, they both decided no to go through with it and ended it there. Completely fine. The second part of that video is from a youtube of a different person...

Also I've never had any issues splitting the bill on dates.

McDonald's

First few dates I'd always assume I'm going to pay. If they pull out their wallet, I won't stop them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Fine, but promise me not to pay for the date. Go half.

ironman2009 posted...

First few dates I'd always assume I'm going to pay. If they pull out their wallet, I won't stop them.

I mean why? Aren't you a great catch? Whatever happened to chemistry?

CommonStar posted...

Also I've never had any issues splitting the bill on dates

Where do you live? Because that's all around me?

Turbam posted...

McDonald's

Ok. You're going to make your date run away.

omniryu posted...

Where do you live? Because that's all around me?

Bay Area

The person who does the asking should assume they will get the bill. You don't ask someone for their company and then expect them to pay, though they can offer if they want.

It's the same thing when I go for a meal with friends or family. If my parents ask me to lunch, they're paying; if I ask my brother, then I'll get the bill.

CommonStar posted...

Bay Area

Honestly, that sound very nice. Idk, when I look at their perspective, it is.... almost sickening. Like I have to win you over?

omniryu posted...

Honestly, that sound very nice. Idk, when I look at their perspective, it is.... almost sickening. Like I have to win you over?

You're only seeing what is presented in front of you on the internet which not indicative of the actual dating pool. It's like watching the news seeing robberies being reported and then thinking robberies are happening at a much higher rate than it is.

I'm not saying there aren't people like that, there are, but you just move on and find someone else. When you start dwelling on that one bad date or person and try to apply that to the wider group, it's pathetic and weird. There are guys who have weird entitlements when it comes to dating too.

Date men instead. Problem solved.

omniryu posted...

Ok. You're going to make your date run away.

Why? Why does it matter where you go on your date? Aren't you a great catch? Whatever happened to chemistry?

The one that invited should pay.

ai123 posted...

The person who does the asking should assume they will get the bill. You don't ask someone for their company and then expect them to pay, though they can offer if they want.

If the only reason a friend or a girl is hanging out with you is because they think they are going to get a free meal out of you then they aren't worth being around. It also tells me a lot about the kind of person they are and what they think of me.

No one should show up to spend time with someone expecting free things.

You go home.

NatsuSama posted...

If the only reason a friend or a girl is hanging out with you is because they think they are going to get a free meal out of you then they aren't worth being around. It also tells me a lot about the kind of person they are and what they think of me.

No one should show up to spend time with someone expecting free things.

let's say your neighbor invites you to their place for dinner. Should you bring your checkbook/cash/credit card, expecting to pay for your share of the meal/labor?

im a lesbian so its not something that comes up

famfam posted...

let's say your neighbor invites you to their place for dinner. Should you bring your checkbook/cash/credit card, expecting to pay for your share of the meal/labor?

This question is trying to sound clever and instead just sounds silly.

They invited you to their house for dinner.

Which is completely different if they invited you to a get together at a restaurant.

If someone is wealthy they should always pay for everyone, maybe even throw in a free car too

NatsuSama posted...

This question is trying to sound clever and instead just sounds silly.

They invited you to their house for dinner.

Which is completely different if they invited you to a get together at a restaurant.

I mean the whoever asked is dumb because its only ever used in a dating context.

If the person agreed to the date, they want to do it just as much as me. Just because we didnt ask at the exact same time doesnt mean one should be encouraged to pay for both.

Just pay for your own stuff. Were trying too hard to hold on to times where women couldnt even work.

Whoever asks is the dude 90% of the time.

I still pay because I just want to. But most of the women I have dated have been at least willing to pay their own way.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

If the person agreed to the date, they want to do it just as much as me. Just because we didnt ask at the exact same time doesnt mean one should be encouraged to pay for both.

Just pay for your own stuff. Were trying too hard to hold on to times where women couldnt even work.

Whoever asks is the dude 90% of the time.

I still pay because I just want to. But most of the women I have dated have been at least willing to pay their own way.

Agreed

NatsuSama posted...

If the only reason a friend or a girl is hanging out with you is because they think they are going to get a free meal out of you then they aren't worth being around. It also tells me a lot about the kind of person they are and what they think of me.

No one should show up to spend time with someone expecting free things.

Why even make that assumption? I don't tend to worry about these things: if they are only doing it for the dinner, it will be evident soon enough. Maybe the dinner and the chat was enough for me too?

If I ask someone to do me the favour of coming to dinner with me, I don't expect them to pay. This doesn't just apply to dates. It also applies to business acquaintances, friends and family.

Asking someone to do something with you, and then expecting them to stump up the cash seems . . . almost rude. Certainly ungenerous.

ai123 posted...

If I ask someone to do me the favour of coming to dinner with me, I don't expect them to pay. This doesn't just apply to dates. It also applies to business acquaintances, friends and family.

Asking someone to do something with you, and then expecting them to stump up the cash seems . . . almost rude. Certainly ungenerous.

What lol? The reason Im asking is to see if you want to do it. That includes pay for it.

Do you have this logic if youre coordinating vacations too? Cause Id love to be your buddy.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I mean the whoever asked is dumb because its only ever used in a dating context.

No it isn't.

Same rule applies to business relationships. If a supplier invites you to lunch, are you offering to split the bill? If you invite a potential investor to dinner, are you going to sit there in awkward silence when the bill comes, expecting them to pay half?

ai123 posted...

No it isn't.

Same rule applies to business relationships. If a supplier invites you to lunch, are you offering to split the bill? If you invite a potential investor to dinner, are you going to sit there in awkward silence when the bill comes, expecting them to pay half?

The business transactions youre referring to have a key difference. Leverage.

If Im asking someone on a date, nobody has more or less power in the equation.

Yeah, dude should at least make the offer, if only on the first date. Assuming he didnt first state he cant afford to pay which is understandable

Just date men. Sure a man will have to pay, but that man doesn't have to be you.

You could also just find someone who is willing to slum it with you. Like I encountered an old classmate a few months back. It seemed like she might be interested in me and is far more successful. If we did anything, I would not be paying for us both. It also helps if you are rather good looking, or you're somebodies type. Like I remember a guy posting on reddit, a couple Asian girls got irritated by him not being blonde and blue eyed. It really makes me think I should be dating Asian women. Especially since, I find their beauty standards desirable.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

What lol? The reason Im asking is to see if you want to do it. That includes pay for it.

The reason I would ask is because I wanted that person's company. Not to test them to see if they wanted mine.

Do you have this logic if youre coordinating vacations too? Cause Id love to be your buddy.

If I were to ask someone to come on holiday with me, yes. But that isn't typically how such things are arranged.

The rule i go by is that if i invite someone out somewhere im gonna pay and if someone invites me out then im always prepared to pay for myself if needed.

famfam posted...

let's say your neighbor invites you to their place for dinner.

Common courtesy is to offer to bring beverages, dessert, or something else. If they decline, sure, free meal.

ai123 posted...

If I were to ask someone to come on holiday with me, yes. But that isn't typically how such things are arranged.

Thats you, I guess.

I would laugh if I invited somebody to go bowling and theyre confused on why I didnt buy their shoes.

ai123 posted...

The reason I would ask is because I wanted that person's company. Not to test them to see if they wanted mine.

These arent mutually exclusive. I may want to hang out with someone. But I also want to make sure they want to hang out with me.

But either way, all the more reason folks should communicate. People have different expectations and definitions that arent necessarily malice or paranoia fueled.

Somewhere with an app, Ill make my order and she can order hers on her app

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Thats you, I guess.

I would laugh if I invited somebody to go bowling and theyre confused on why I didnt buy their shoes.

Different social events and relationships work out in different ways. My expectation is that the person doing the asking (be it business, friends, family, or date) will pay for dinner.

Saying this would be silly when applied to the hire of bowling shoes doesn't seem like it would invalidate my thoughts on dinner.

These arent mutually exclusive. I may want to hang out with someone. But I also want to make sure they want to hang out with me.

I wouldn't take an offer to split the bill as confirmation that they wanted to hang out. Sometimes it's the exact opposite.

But either way, all the more reason folks should communicate. People have different expectations and definitions that arent necessarily malice or paranoia fueled.

Agreed.

ai123 posted...

Why even make that assumption? I don't tend to worry about these things: if they are only doing it for the dinner, it will be evident soon enough. Maybe the dinner and the chat was enough for me too?

You are making the assumption for me by demanding free shit if you are asked to hang out at a restaurant.

ai123 posted...

If I ask someone to do me the favour of coming to dinner with me, I don't expect them to pay. This doesn't just apply to dates. It also applies to business acquaintances, friends and family.

If I ask you to hang out with me, don't say yes if the only way and reason you can grace me with your presence is with free things.

ai123 posted...

Asking someone to do something with you, and then expecting them to stump up the cash seems . . . almost rude. Certainly ungenerous.

I have that exact opinion to anyone expecting to be compensated because someone asked to hang out with them.

If a person deliberately offers to pay upfront for someone else's company that is certainly someone's prerogative that I'm not against. That said, I'd also call any family or friends or stranger who expects you to pay for their meal because they graced me with their presence to be ungenerous. It tells me the only way they can grace me with their presence if they can get something free out of me which says a lot where I stand to them.

Unless the party volunteers upfront, I don't ever show up to hang out with friends and family or even strangers thinking I'm getting free things or that them asking means they have some moral obligation to pay for my shit.

CommonStar posted...

You're only seeing what is presented in front of you on the internet which not indicative of the actual dating pool. It's like watching the news seeing robberies being reported and then thinking robberies are happening at a much higher rate than it is.

I'm not saying there aren't people like that, there are, but you just move on and find someone else. When you start dwelling on that one bad date or person and try to apply that to the wider group, it's pathetic and weird. There are guys who have weird entitlements when it comes to dating too.

Don't get me wrong I see that too but it is like I run into that a lot where I work at and use to work at.

AceMos posted...

im a lesbian so its not something that comes up

One of my former coworker is a stud and she complains of the same thing.

CSCA33 posted...

If someone is wealthy they should always pay for everyone, maybe even throw in a free car too

of course.
NatsuSama posted...

It tells me the only way they can grace me with their presence if they can get something free out of me which says a lot where I stand to them.

And ohhh that bothers me. Like, if I can go back into a dating context. What does that mean?

I am trying to win you as a trophy and if I win, I can "shine" you up and put you on my shelf? What kind of relationship is that? I seen guys do that all the time and they "bag" the woman and move on to the next.

I don't mind paying for a date but I need it to be we enjoy ourselves instead of "I am blessed you with my presence. "

NatsuSama posted...

You are making the assumption for me by demanding free shit if you are asked to hang out at a restaurant.

I'm not demanding anything of you.

If I ask someone to dinner, I expect to pay. That's my choice. I'm not telling you to do the same. You're an adult, make your own decisions.

If I ask you to hang out with me, don't say yes if the only way and reason you can grace me with your presence is with free things.

You've got the whole thing arse about face. This isn't about what the invitee will do, it's about how I see the role of the person who is inviting.

I have that exact opinion to anyone expecting to be compensated because someone asked to hang out with them.

Again, it has nothing to do with their expectations, it's about how I want to go about things.

If a person deliberately offers to pay upfront for someone else's company that is certainly someone's prerogative that I'm not against. That said, I'd also call any family or friends or stranger who expects you to pay for their meal because they graced me with their presence to be ungenerous. It tells me the only way they can grace me with their presence if they can get something free out of me which says a lot where I stand to them.

Who said anything about it being the 'only way'? You have some weird and paranoid views of human relationships.

If I call my parents and say 'why don't I we go to lunch at the weekend?' Am I going to get all pass-agg and pissy if they don't pay half? Think I have to pay for their company? Worry that they wouldn't come without a free meal? Jfc, I am so glad I don't live like that.

Once again, this has nothing to do with the other person. This is about how I see things. I cannot control others, but I can decide how I want to be.

And I choose not to be petty and paranoid about this stuff, always worrying about what others are doing.

Unless the party volunteers upfront, I don't ever show up to hang out with friends and family or even strangers thinking I'm getting free things or that them asking means they have some moral obligation to pay for my shit.

For the final time, this has nothing to do with the feelings and motivations of the person who is invited. If the other person feels uncomfortable and want to pay half, that's cool with me.

I just do not expect them to.

ai123 posted...

Again, it has nothing to do with their expectations, it's about how I want to go about things.

Which is you making expectations. You can say it doesnt as much as you wish, it's only dancing around the fact that in order for you to grace a family, friend or whoever with your presence you expect free things if they ask first can you spend time with them.

You, not I, but you said if someone invited you to a restaurant you would expect them to pay for the entire thing. This "how you expect things to go" are indeed your expectations.

Also this has everything to do with the feelings and motivation of the other person as well. It frankly has to do with everyone bothering to show up. Don't preach to me about generosity lioe you did earlier, and in the same breath demand that whoever asks another do they want to hang out they also have to pay for everything. While also saying that's how you expect it should always go as if that's the moral thing to do. As if the attitude that you can only grace a person with your presence is if they provide you gifts.

Which is why I said, if a person deliberately offers to pay upfront for someone else's company that is certainly someone's prerogative that I'm not against. You do you. That said, I'd also call any family or friends or stranger who expects me to pay for their meal because they graced me with their presence to be not a person I want to be around. It tells me the only way they can grace me with their presence if they can get something free out of me which says a lot where I stand to them.

If you want to play the generosity card, I would find it much more generous to say no to me if you feel you need to be compensated to spend time with me.

You do you, but let's be real here and spare me the generosity/moral obligation nonesense.

skullmagic2 posted...

Common courtesy is to offer to bring beverages, dessert, or something else. If they decline, sure, free meal.

which is different from demanding that it is exactly half of costs. I agree that one should contribute something, but it doesn't need to be exactly half of the value as if it is some sort of transaction

NatsuSama posted...

Which is you making expectations. You can say it doesnt as much as you wish, it's only dancing around the fact that in order for you to grace a family, friend or whoever with your presence you expect free things if they ask first can you spend time with them.

You, not I, but you said if someone invited you to a restaurant you would expect them to pay for the entire thing. This "how you expect things to go" are indeed your expectations. In your words, this "applies to business acquaintances, friends and family." You expect them to pay for your things if you bless them with your presence.

Also this has everything to do with the feelings and motivation of the other person as well. It frankly has to do with everyone bothering to show up. Don't preach to me about generosity like you did earlier, and in the same breath demand that whoever asks another do they want to hang out they also have to pay for everything. While also saying that's how you expect it should always go as if that's the moral thing to do. As if the attitude that you can only grace a person with your presence is if they provide you gifts.

Which is why I said, if a person deliberately offers to pay upfront for someone else's company that is certainly someone's prerogative that I'm not against. You do you. That said, I'd also call any family or friends or stranger who expects me to pay for their meal because they graced me with their presence to be not a person I want to be around. It tells me the only way they can grace me with their presence is if they can get something free out of me which says a lot where I stand to them.

If you want to play the generosity/rude card, I would find it much more rude to say no to me if you feel you need to be compensated to spend time with me. If feel you need compensation from me, just tell me no.

You do you, but let's be real here and spare me the generosity/moral obligation nonesense on expectations that someone provides you compensation for your time for the high crime of you gracing them with your presence to spend quality time together. Time that if it was that much of a bother that you expect (or your twist "how you want things to go") compensation, you could have just said, no.

If those are your expectations, you do you and I don't mean that in a malicious way.

Im not sure what the motives are behind replies like this, however, ai123 was speaking about pretty common social etiquette as I understand it.

Why do I get this feeling that some of the posters in this thread are a week or two away from saying stuff like "Dating is the same as prostitution. I should get sex if I'm paying for a date."

NatsuSama posted...

Which is you making expectations. You can say it doesnt as much as you wish, it's only dancing around the fact that in order for you to grace a family, friend or whoever with your presence you expect free things if they ask first can you spend time with them.

Again, you have this backwards. I don't require other people to pay if they ask me to dinner. I just don't expect them to pay if I ask. What is difficult to understand?

You, not I, but you said if someone invited you to a restaurant you would expect them to pay for the entire thing. This "how you expect things to go" are indeed your expectations. In your words, this "applies to business acquaintances, friends and family." You expect them to pay for your things if you bless them with your presence.

I never said anything about what I expect. I just stated how I prefer to behave when inviting people to dinner. I do not attempt to dictate what others do.

Also this has everything to do with the feelings and motivation of the other person as well. It frankly has to do with everyone bothering to show up. Don't preach to me about generosity like you did earlier, and in the same breath demand that whoever asks another do they want to hang out they also have to pay for everything. While also saying that's how you expect it should always go as if that's the moral thing to do. As if the attitude that you can only grace a person with your presence is if they provide you gifts.

Never once said I expected anyone else to pay for me. You're making stuff up, and it's a little off.

Which is why I said, if a person deliberately offers to pay upfront for someone else's company that is certainly someone's prerogative that I'm not against. You do you. That said, I'd also call any family or friends or stranger who expects me to pay for their meal because they graced me with their presence to be not a person I want to be around. It tells me the only way they can grace me with their presence is if they can get something free out of me which says a lot where I stand to them.

If you want to play the generosity/rude card, I would find it much more rude to say no to me if you feel you need to be compensated to spend time with me. If feel you need compensation from me, just tell me no.

You do you, but let's be real here and spare me the generosity/moral obligation nonesense on expectations that someone provides you compensation for your time for the high crime of you gracing them with your presence to spend quality time together. Time that if it was that much of a bother that you expect (or your twist "how you want things to go") compensation, you could have just said, no.

If those are your expectations, you do you and I don't mean that in a malicious way.

I don't play pass agg games. I don't see going for a meal with a person as some weird test of how genuinely they like me.

You're all bent out of shape over nothing. Let me be clear:

If I invite another person to dinner, I expect to pay, as a matter of politeness. If they insist on paying half, I may accept for the same reason.

If another person asks me to dinner, I do not assume that they are paying. I will play that situation by ear. I'll almost certainly offer half, but if they decline, I won't push it. If I know that they never accept (my parents, for example), I won't offer at all.

It's really basic social interaction. I don't know why you are so intent on making some huge drama invested with such great significance over a simple everyday meeting.

CSCA33 posted...

Im not sure what the motives are behind replies like this, however, ai123 was speaking about pretty common social etiquette as I understand it.

He may have been speaking about an outdated social etiquette, however he was also playing a moral high ground card in his argument.

ai123 posted...

Again, you have this backwards. I don't require other people to pay if they ask me to dinner. I just don't expect them to pay if I ask. What is difficult to understand?

If this is your new stance, great. But don't pretend that was your original stance. You seem to forget one can easily read through this topic and what your original stance was which was the person who asks should pay.

So what's difficult to understand is you walking your stance back and pretending this new stance was your stance all along.

You literally did say you expect the person who asked you should pay, I didn't make that up, and it's rather ridiculous to pretend I made it up when one can literally read through this topic to see you did. Post 9. You even go on to feed me the moral obligation bs about how rude it is (post 26) not to pay if one asks the high crime of spending time with someone. As if one should expectcompensationfor blessing the asker with their presence. My stance or rather rebuttal to that was I find that in itself to be rude, and that I'd find it less rude if it's that much of a bother, just tell me no to hanging out.

You and I started all of this on your stance that the person who asked should pay.

You have only NOW expressed your stance is different from your original post.

Set the expectation beforehand

Woman are equal to men except when it benefits them not to be

Just pay for your own stuff if you go on a date. If someone offers, great. Otherwise don't go expecting someone to pay for you.

Period.

The whole "who asks who" is dumb. Anyone that behaved that way is 100% someone that probably isn't good to date. Who wants to date a prop?