Current Events > Question for the "We should arm teachers" crowd on CE.

(+) Yeah! (+)

yemmy posted...

If we had more armed guards and metal detectors in schools, these things wouldn't happen, so they'd have less justification to disarm the populace.

You really are absolutely nuts it this is your take away from anything said in this topic.

Fucking wow.

Malcrasternus posted...

The study where this quote most commonly stems from fails to establish whether or not the firearm even belonged to the homeowner during an incident.

The "quote" stems from multiple studies.

Malcrasternus posted...

Also gun registrations have historically led to gun confiscations. Austrailia comes to mind, and now Canada is banning the sale of several firearm models, including hunting variants.

Neither of those countries have gun ownership as a fundamental right within their Constitution. But sure, maybe that will happen in a hundred years when public opinion in the US has shifted enough to amend the Constitution. Personally though I'd say that's a bridge for that particular generation to cross when they get there, while we take what steps we can to make gun ownership less popular and safer.

Malcrasternus posted...

Also gun registrations have historically led to gun confiscations. Austrailia comes to mind, and now Canada is banning the sale of several firearm models, including hunting variants.

just curious, what's the rate of gun violence like in Australia and Canada compared to the US?

meestermj posted...

You really are absolutely nuts it this is your take away from anything said in this topic.

Fucking wow.

What was said in this topic exactly? What is the counter arguments to ANY point that I've made, other than "fuck off" or "you're crazy"?

Oh "more guns is not the answer". Ok so I'm supposing less guns IS the answer. Well nobody will answer the question, who should own guns and who shouldn't?

ZMythos posted...

In a world where teachers were armed in classrooms, should the teacher have shot that 6 year old?

YES, because as horrific as that is, theres 10 to 20 other innocent 6 year olds in that room depending on you to do so.

Well at least someone said it with their chest.

TheOtherMike posted...

So you dont prefer a solution that prevents the 6 year old from ever gaining access to the gun, is what you're saying.

No such solution will ever exist. Stop to think about this. This wasnt a kid who bought an assault rifle. This wasnt a kid who skirted some law or masterfully picked a gun cases lock. He was a kindergartener or first grader who walked out of his house with his moms gun. If your weapon is so unsecured that a kindergartener can walk away with it (and you still dont even realize its missing for a full day) then theres no law in the world that will compensate for your stupidity. You can pass every gun law under the sun, it wouldnt have changed anything.

It is impossible to prevent it, says the only country where it happens.

FAQ-Checker posted...

No such solution will ever exist. Stop to think about this. This wasnt a kid who bought an assault rifle. This wasnt a kid who skirted some law or masterfully picked a gun cases lock. He was a kindergartener or first grader who walked out of his house with his moms gun. If your weapon is so unsecured that a kindergartener can walk away with it (and you still dont even realize its missing for a full day) then theres no law in the world that will compensate for your stupidity. You can pass every gun law under the sun, it wouldnt have changed anything.

guess there's no point in having any laws at all then, because someone is always going to break it. yup, there's no sense in ever having any preventative measures for anything, because they are never going to be 100% effective. you heard it right here on gamefaqs.gamespot.com folks, pack it up, that's the end of the argument.

DoesntMatter posted...

just because something isn't going to be 100% effective immediately doesn't mean that it's not a solution worth working towards, or that we should work towards something going the opposite way instead. jfc, this is the same kind of rhetoric that anti-vaxxers use because vaccines aren't 100% effective immediately so therefore we should all just eat horse paste instead.

If we'd stayed inside for three weeks, COVID would have died out. That's not the reality we face. The reality we must deal with is living in a world where other people are selfish and put their needs above those of others. You can't control them (except through force). You can really only react to what is rather than what should be.

If you want to avoid COVID, your best option is to get vaccinated, stay boosted, and avoid crowds -- especially in highly conservative locations. If you want to minimize gun violence, being prepared to intercept guns or people with guns is more rational than asking people who are willing to kill to willingly surrender their weapons.

DoesntMatter posted...

guess there's no point in having any laws at all then, because someone is always going to break it. yup, there's no sense in ever having any preventative measures for anything, because they are never going to be 100% effective. you heard it right here on gamefaqs.gamespot.com folks, pack it up, that's the end of the argument.

Do you think your hysterical hyperbolic rant is proving a point? No one has said there shouldnt be gun laws. But beefing up the traffic code isnt going to keep an 8 year old from driving to McDonalds if you hand him the keys to the car.

FAQ-Checker posted...

This wasnt a kid who skirted some law or masterfully picked a gun cases lock. He was a kindergartener or first grader who walked out of his house with his moms gun.

Continue on these two thoughts, you're so close.

Ill even go as far to say that an armed teacher might have been the preferred solution here. Do you realize how close this teacher came to instant death? The bullet passed through her hand and straight into her chest. What if her hand hadnt slowed the bullet and she died instantly? Then what? Who would have taken the gun away? The police said this was a deliberate act. The kid was purposefully trying to kill. If that teacher went down then those other kids were next. If anything, this situation might reinforce the idea that teachers should be carrying because it was a miracle that she didnt die and lose a handful of students in the process.

Its also worth noting that this is like the third major gun incident in this school district and yet the district still hadnt installed metal detectors. If the school district isnt going to protect teachers then shouldnt they be able to protect themselves?

Yes, install metal detectors so you just have a line of targets outside the building for someone with a gun.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Irresponsible idiot parents. So breathtakingly irresponsible that no law in the world was going to curb their behavior.

FAQ-Checker posted...

Ill even go as far to say that an armed teacher might have been the preferred solution here.

i wonder if the teacher would think that arming her up would have been the preferred solution. you know, instead of guns being so common and prevalent that even a 6 year old can get their hands on one.

like, during the interview/hiring process, is there gonna be something on the questionnaire like "are you willing, as a teacher, to carry a gun on you at all times, in the process of teaching an elementary school class? are you willing to shoot dead a small child?" and if you answer no, you're not hired? do you really, honestly think that's gonna be the "preferred" solution?

FAQ-Checker posted...

Irresponsible idiot parents. So breathtakingly irresponsible that no law in the world was going to curb their behavior.

a law that doesn't allow them to own the gun they own would have curbed this behavior

I'm confused at the order of operations if the teacher had a gun in this situation.

Is it:
Kid pulls gun and critically wounds teacher
Teacher somehow shoots kid

Or:
Kid pulls gun
Teacher shoots kid who at this point is only brandishing

FAQ-Checker posted...

Irresponsible idiot parents. So breathtakingly irresponsible that no law in the world was going to curb their behavior.

You have no way of knowing that. Community outreach and education, mandated safer storage practices, and registration would all help to significantly reduce incidents like this. Your defeatest attitude of "we can't do anything about it so we shouldn't even try" is fucking stupid.

TheOtherMike posted...

You have no way of knowing that. Community outreach and education, mandated safer storage practices, and registration would all help to significantly reduce incidents like this. Your defeatest attitude of "we can't do anything about it so we shouldn't even try" is fucking stupid.

this point cannot be stated emphatically enough

utterly. fucking. stupid.

What if we could have a register of all guns, with inspectors randomly visit them to see if they store them properly?

DoesntMatter posted...

a law that doesn't allow them to own the gun they own would have curbed this behavior

And what law would that be? Unless youve invented time travel and can go back with future knowledge to deny them a gun, then they were just ordinary citizens who had violated no laws. Unless youre keeping a pre-cog in a bathtub then they were always going to get a gun.

Foppe posted...

What if we could have a register of all guns, with inspectors randomly visit them to see if they store them properly?

Thats a warm, fuzzy idea. But whos going to pay for it? I mean, that would be a few billion dollars and an entire government agency. Youre talking about enough government worker to visit almost every family in the United States at least once a year. Not to mention the 4th amendment violations for having some government worker barging into your house to search your guns.

FAQ-Checker posted...

But whos going to pay for it? I mean, that would be a few billion dollars and an entire government agency.

Oh no the wealthiest government in the history of the fucking planet has to spend the equivalent of a drop in the bucket. That's just too much.

FAQ-Checker posted...

Thats a warm, fuzzy idea. But whos going to pay for it? I mean, that would be a few billion dollars and an entire government agency. Youre talking about enough government worker to visit almost every family in the United States at least once a year. Not to mention the 4th amendment violations for having some government worker barging into your house to search your guns.

How is anything being paid?
Turn NRA into a gun controlling agency, people got no problems giving them money as long as it is not called a tax.
Laws and amendments are changed to fit with with time.

Im not reading this whole topic yet but is there legitimately a we should arm teachers crowd on CE? One or two Im sure but a legit crowd?

Literally the only reason they want to arm teachers is because that would increase the amount of guns in circulation and the amount of shootings, which will increase profits for weapons distributors. Theres not a single benefit to anyones safety, its purely profit driven. Which is stupid because they wont see any of those profits, being a random ass person and not a board member of a weapons distributor. Pro-gun propaganda has fucked America over

TheOtherMike posted...

You have no way of knowing that. Community outreach and education, mandated safer storage practices, and registration would all help to significantly reduce incidents like this. Your defeatest attitude of "we can't do anything about it so we shouldn't even try" is fucking stupid.

This woman left her gun out so much that a kindergartener knew where and how to get it. And not only did this kindergartener (who probably cant even read, but managed to get a gun) just walk off with moms gun, mom didnt even miss it. No law, PSA, or Community Outreach is going to fix that level of stupid. The only solution was going to be the school to catch this. It was never going to happen at home.

AloneIBreak posted...

Im not reading this whole topic yet but is there legitimately a we should arm teachers crowd on CE? One or two Im sure but a legit crowd?

I actually dont think we should mandatorily arm teachers. But shit, when the school district refuses to even pay for metal detectors after another kid at the high school got shot in the head, then fuck it. Give them the option to carry.

FAQ-Checker posted...

Thats a warm, fuzzy idea. But whos going to pay for it?

FAQ-Checker posted...

But shit, when the school district refuses to even pay for metal detectors

The disconnect is real.
Not to mention an earlier post that's been blatantly ignored.
Metal detectors and guards are prohibitively expensive, have lingcare maintenance, and negatively impact the performance and mental health of everyone involved.

But no, let's pass the cost and responsibility onto the Scholls instead of taking on the real problem.

FAQ-Checker posted...

This woman left her gun out so much that a kindergartener knew where and how to get it. And not only did this kindergartener (who probably cant even read, but managed to get a gun) just walk off with moms gun, mom didnt even miss it. No law, PSA, or Community Outreach is going to fix that level of stupid. The only solution was going to be the school to catch this. It was never going to happen at home.

You dont know that. And even if it didn't change anything in this case, it could in other similar cases. Your defeatest attitude of "we can't do anything about it so we shouldn't even try" is fucking stupid.

And as I already pointed out about metal detectors:

TheOtherMike posted...

Metal detectors create a choke point, which is a target for violence. They've been shown to decrease academic performance. They're extremely expensive to purchase and maintain. Metal detectors at every school is a wildly unrealistic and fiscally irresponsible pipe dream.

meestermj posted...

These two right here.
IMO every single gun owner should be subject to a yearly surprise spot check to ensure safe storage.
Gun isn't locked up sufficiently? Confiscated for a period of X time and a fine.

If anyone thinks there isn't a way toproperly regulate guns, you are in fact completely wrong.

Its like the Fourth Amendment doesnt exist.

TheOtherMike posted...

You have no way of knowing that. Community outreach and education, mandated safer storage practices, and registration would all help to significantly reduce incidents like this. Your defeatest attitude of "we can't do anything about it so we shouldn't even try" is fucking stupid.

Education is one thing and there should be an EMPHASIS on proper storage handling, but in general unless you have some serious consequences (and even then) its not going to change much to mandate it especially when theres still a lot of laws on the books that conflicts with the notion of mandatory storage. irresponsible and or forgetful people are still going to do something irresponsible and forgetful (assuming thats what this is and not another Oxford) and a lot of times its a "well that will never happen to me" or "my kid would never do that" type of mentality rather than if someone is legitimately unsuited to own a firearm. that kind of ignorance is a very difficult type of thing to account for and can be passed by nearly everyone, unless you go full authoritarian with guns which isnt going to happen.

Registration would also not do anything and only really serves to trace something back the original source after the deed has been done which can be essentially denied by the original owner. It would not stop situations like this. its also not hard to just file off a number or 3d print what you need outside of these types of situations. Registration is there and has been to only really let the government know what you have (which usually doesnt turn out well). My home state has handgun registration and yet illegal handgun use is off the fucking charts and of all the police who iv actually talked to on that subject (used to work for a range that did government qualifications) or something similar they all said that registration helped with 0 cases (not some, zero).

Patchwork posted...

Its like the Fourth Amendment doesnt exist.

It is not an unlawful searchbif its a codified law, and if the inspections and penalties are codified it would be a lawful seizure.

The school had metal detectors.

Discussions on how to handle 6 year old kids bringing guns to school? Now that's American.

Right after the 10 year anniversary of Sandy Hook as well.

FAQ-Checker posted...

And what law would that be? Unless youve invented time travel and can go back with future knowledge to deny them a gun, then they were just ordinary citizens who had violated no laws. Unless youre keeping a pre-cog in a bathtub then they were always going to get a gun.

you misunderstood what i meant. i wasn't referring to any law that's currently on the books.

AlephZero posted...

only cops can be trusted to have guns

Hehe, that does make me wonder.

Putting aside the teacher argument, how would the US go about disarming its already armed populace?
Ill assume they want armed law enforcement (Aka cops) to do that, but CE (the anti 2A part) doesnt trust cops and some outright hate them. But the cops will now have all the guns? Thats a conundrum.

CE really isn't that far removed from the Facebook boomer crowd way of arguing at this point, huh.

This is what happens when you ban The Trent. Lmao.

meestermj posted...

It is not an unlawful searchbif its a codified law, and if the inspections and penalties are codified it would be a lawful seizure.

It's not violating the constitution if we say it isn't! Lmao

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Hehe, that does make me wonder.

Putting aside the teacher argument, how would the US go about disarming its already armed populace?
Ill assume they want armed law enforcement (Aka cops) to do that, but CE (the anti 2A part) doesnt trust cops and some outright hate them. But the cops will now have all the guns? Thats a conundrum.

Yeah it's a conundrum after giving gun nuts half a century of what they wanted. This is the result.

Think how bad it's gonna look in another 50 years unchecked?

Nobody's really clarified how a teacher with a gun that's already been shot is going to stop someone else with a gun. I'm also pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find someone that's willing to point a gun at a 6 year old, pull the trigger, and extinguish their life. And I'm pretty sure Ulvalde, for example, had a complex safety plan in place that didn't help.