Current Events > I finished Persona 5 Royal. (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, that is the best game in the series by orders of magnitude. Probably the best SMT game period.

Maruki is such an enormous improvement on Shido being the human final boss. It's really refreshing to see a palace about someone who has a 'positive' delusion, where they don't just want to exploit people. It speaks really highly to Royal how well integrated January is into the game's ideas despite being an inversion of their targets.

I love how you just talk things through first on 2/2, you both have convictions that warrant a Persona which are simply opposed to each other, he calmly accepts your calling card and has no desire to change your mind in a way that does not 'help' you.

His phase 1 boss fight is sublime. I dunno that the mech thing was needed, but I did adore the scene of all the thieves holding back the punch together, it was a good way to make the end of this encounter impactful while not overshadowing or repeating the incredible sequence against the original final boss.

The rest of the game of course is really good too. The flashforward mechanic and media res opening work really well to play with your expectations and keep up your curiosity. Really stylish presentation and good gameplay.

The Thieves could've stood to have some more relaxation time together that wasn't half spent obsessing over being PTs (looking at you Ryuji). I think Persona 4 still has the tightest friend group. Despite always having Morgana with you, a lot of P5 feels spent in isolation. Ann is your only direct classmate and you never talk in class, you just text, which does not have the same effect. Part of this is definitely intentional since imprisonment is a motif of the game, but there is a tradeoff.

The group probably has one member too many, especially when Sumire and Akechi are skulking around too. The odd one out is pretty clear... Haru. Way too little time spent on her, doesn't get to develop her own 'voice.' You can glean some stuff, like how her way of speaking is the put-on air of authority a princess might have to rally the people. But she gets very little to show of herself to you or the other thieves. Her background doesn't integrate either. Yusuke makes your calling cards. Makoto exploits her authority as prez and Sae's sister to investigate. Futaba can hack anything. But Haru's great wealth has surprisingly no bearing on anything the thieves do. It's easy to forget she's even upper class. This makes her last minute arrival especially stick out compared to Ann or Ryuji, who have the slack of being founders.

The Shido fight was lolzy. Why did he turn red... was it inspired by Senator Armstrong? Except Armstrong actually had a huge build and a Texas cavalier attitude. Shido just didn't work for me. The way he Ganons you into a one on one isn't very cool either since their rivalry is so lame that NEITHER EVEN REMEMBERED EACH OTHER. The MGS-like punch-out between Ren and Maruki was way better. Great detail that they can't even use their personas anymore and their outfits crumble as they fight.

I don't know why but I always tear up when the heroes win with the power of belief or friendship. The Phan-Site poll becoming a set piece and surging to 100% as the Thieves regained their power was incredible.

I can't believe how right-before-your-eyes the Igor twist was. Wish true Igor got to speak some more but I guess the JP VA died so they didnt want to recast him much.

Akechi. Great rival, becomes a little laughable when he goes full "I DONT NEED FREINDS WAAAAH." Wholly redeemed by becoming Joker's partner in January. It's so fucking cool when the two of you are the only ones aware of what is going on. He's really likable despite being a horrible person because of how he's honest with you and doesn't just basically worship you like the average Persona friend. The dynamic reminds me a tiny bit of Death Note?

He really deserved his last moments being everyone stepping on him as he's crammed in the bottom of a cat helicopter. Not sure what's up with him passing by you in the post credits. Look, I like Akechi a lot aesthetically and thematically. That dude does NOT deserve to be a free man walking. He shot Haru's dad in the head and liked it. His third awakening has him declare he will sow chaos as wide as he can. He is literally a danger to society. And i liked it better that giving up your chance to settle your promise with Akechi is the price of returning to reality. That sequence in the cafe with Maruki was really well done. No idea if Akechi shows up in Strikers, but I heard that game doesn't try to acknowledge Royal. Which is a shame, because it's the crown jewel of Persona 5.

P5 Strikers does an amazing job at developing the whole cast as a group of friends, and even gives Haru some much needed love

Strikers is so good.

I third both of those recommendations for Strikers. Ryuji is also awesome there. Makoto does get pretty annoying at times which is lame because she's awesome in P5/R

If they do a P5 Arena, I fully expect them to bullshit Akechi into the game somehow, like they did with Adachi in P4 Arena Ultimax. Idk why he's in there since I haven't played yet. My friend thinks that last scene is just spinoff bait.

There's really no excuse for Haru being so bland, yeah. Naoto comes similarly late in the plot as a party member, but they have development before joining the party and has depth as a character after as well.

Narrative wise? I feel like 5 hits really high highs but some really low lows too. Okumura arc and Mementos arc specifically are the lows. Nijiima's palace is one of the greatest highs I've seen an RPG story taken. Maruki's palace was just okay, but at least it regrabbed the threads the original ending cast aside. You're right about Joker feeling alone most of the time. When it's just the original 4, you feel a lot closer because Ann and Ryuji playing off of each other hard. The beach arc was good for that too. Other than that? Yeah.

4 did a lot better at making you feel like close friends. Even when Teddie jumped in to ruin things half the time. I also felt the plot flowed a lot better than 5's even though I think the overall premise of 5's and execution of the biggest twist (the traitor) was better. Though getting the true ending is hell for no reason.

I wouldn't say 5 is magnitudes better, just that the things that make it better are millions of tiny things that add up a LOT:

• Quality of life
• Presentation and UI
• More complex battle system
• Detailed dungeons (as opposed to 4's awful generated dungeons that just get progressively longer and more tedious to navigate because it doesn't have a sprint button like 5)
• 4 had better social links imo, but the benefits and quality of life in 5 (you can more easily tell if you are going to rank up with someone, and see who is active in a given day) make them feel more rewarding to do
• Being able to swap between backline party members much easier and giving them equal experience eventually means I'm not using the same 3 party members all game
• More activities to do in 5

It was ok I guess.

Okumura arc just doesn't have the detailing the rest of the game does. Certainly the weakest.

I like Mementos arc if you mean the God of control palace. I was super annoyed how in P4, Adachi is what you're chasing the whole time but he is quickly upstaged by a god which is pretty much just not foreshadowed. It's an anticlimactic confrontation. The true ending isn't any better. It's not much of a conspiracy when a god is pulling strings, that's just what gods do. It doesn't actually create answers when a story does it-- explaining supernatural coincidences with... wow, a supernatural force. How compelling.

In P5, once again you go up against a god, except this time it fits very nicely into the motif of rebelling against society. You literally take on everyone and the god of control is a very good expy for the population. I also like how it takes the seemingly generic side content hub dungeon and turn it into the true center of everything.

I liked P5R's ending, but I vastly prefer the original ending scene. Having Joker's friends show up one final time to drive him home themselves felt alot better than what happened in Royal.

Srk700 posted...

I liked P5R's ending, but I vastly prefer the original ending scene. Having Joker's friends show up one final time to drive him home themselves felt alot better than them what happened in Royal.

Yeah, I looked up the difference and it is certainly a clumsy change. Love Maruki, but nobody should upstage your friends at the end of a Persona game.

I found the game itself enjoyable, but my gosh was it long. I stopped letting voiced scenes finish the dialogue boxes for me nearly half-way through and I still clocked in 90 hours. Plus, I didn't get the royal ending because I had no idea how to even activate it which is irritating because I won't be playing the game again any time soon because of the length.

yillin posted...

Plus, I didn't get the royal ending because I had no idea how to even activate it which is irritating because I won't be playing the game again any time soon because of the length.

Sorry to hear that. After taking my licks from other persona games I follow a guide for this shit. I don't feel any worse for it.

Doe posted...

Okumura arc just doesn't have the detailing the rest of the game does. Certainly the weakest.

I like Mementos arc if you mean the God of control palace. I was super annoyed how in P4, Adachi is what you're chasing the whole time but he is quickly upstaged by a god which is pretty much just not foreshadowed. It's an anticlimactic confrontation. The true ending isn't any better. It's not much of a conspiracy when a god is pulling strings, that's just what gods do. It doesn't actually create answers when a story does it-- explaining supernatural coincidences with... wow, a supernatural force. How compelling.

In P5, once again you go up against a god, except this time it fits very nicely into the motif of rebelling against society. You literally take on everyone and the god of control is a very good expy for the population. I also like how it takes the seemingly generic side content hub dungeon and turn it into the true center of everything.

The fog bosses in 4 felt like they fit a lot neater into the plot, considering the focus was always on the fog and how it was obscuring the truth. Meanwhile yes, rebelling is the main theme of 5, but also this massive political conspiracy youre uncovering just gets tossed to the side when Yaldabaoth shows up.

Oh, and I'd also recommend playing Strikers as well. It's not quite like other musuo games (and on hard it was actually challenging at some parts which is something other musuo games have failed to be for me), and does a better job at making the PTs feel like a friend group than P5/R did.

Though be warned (if you do pick it up) that it's a spin-off sequel to the original P5 and not Royal. Though if Atlus were to make another spin-off sequel that incorporates both the events of Strikers + Royal, it would be easy enough to work around it/retcon some things without really hurting the story of either game. Only one that might be tricky is Akechi's fate, which would be an easy work around if they still treat him as being dead (since that Royal scene is supposed to make you question if that was really Akechi or just a hallucination), but I'm not sure if that's what Atlus would go for.

Persona 4's final boss was great because you can finish the game and still get a very similar ending without knowing she exists. You have to ignore the game's suggestion that you should just go home on your final day to discover and fight her. It fits very well with the theme of the game that you should always be searching for the truth.

Doe posted...

I can't believe how right-before-your-eyes the Igor twist was. Wish true Igor got to speak some more but I guess the JP VA died so they didnt want to recast him much.

The thing that threw me about this was when they showed his original voice actor in the opening trailers, I thought it was a direct reference to the original voice actor dying, so they decided to weave it in as a way of retiring his voice. That wasn't the case at all, which added a further layer to the subversion of expectations the game does.

I still don't like the extra chapter, and I feel Persona 4 is a tighter package. It may not be as stylish, or have as many quality of life features, but the cast, story, and music are just so good in it.

Also didn't like the rival aspect of Akechi and his Confidant. They did the same thing in Persona 4 with Adachi, and it felt ham-fisted there as well. I'll give him props that he doesn't go full friendly redemption arc, and still is outwardly hostile towards you throughout the entire partnership.

I don't know if they were teasing anything in the ending to P5R, but I viewed it as more fan service and maybe a "I am a part of you" type of nod towards Joker.

YellowSUV posted...

Persona 4's final boss was great because

That is a cool mechanic in how to discover it, but that does not qualify it as 'great' to me. I just have no interest in fighting some monster non-character, especially in a game about bonds and connections with each other. Frankly, I was completely checked out once Adachi was down. Yes, yes, the P4 entities are said to be manifestations of the human mind, except unlike in P5 we get little to no indication of that in P4. I don't have beef with these beings besides that they are simply exerting their will on the human world in a way I don't want.

There's just a huge gap between human motivations and the abstract machinations of deities who are put down like machines.

Best showtime I think is HaruxMakoto, followed by MakotoxRyuji and RenxAkechi. The devs really love Makoto and want you to think she is so cool. RenxSumire is nearly great but it's jarring to see them do the tango fall right after the weird spiritual Kasumi dance. Kinda interrupts the duo dynamic.

Alucard188 posted...

and maybe a "I am a part of you" type of nod towards Joker.

oh no, Persona: Asakusa Knight incoming

Edgelord Akechi is one of the best parts of the game. His all out attack card is so unhinged.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/2/7/AAA4VzAAD7bD.jpg

It is also a shame you can't permanently turn on his navigation lines.

I adore the "I decide the truth", fits well into his January characterization

I also want to shout out the 'false' ending you can get if you side with Maruki and he takes everyone's picture.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/3/3/AAcZIZAAD7ct.jpg
This is such a powerful 'bad ending.' The end credits then flash a bunch of pictures of everyone living happily, like Haru with her father, Ryuji in the track team, and Joker & Akechi playing chess as friends.

No clearly terrible or evil fate. No cop-out "it's all yellow wallpaper and everyone is suffering" or "Maruki becomes a tyrant with tentacle marionette strings extending from everyone's bodies". You will get what is promised and whether that is worth it is up to you.

There's also a 3rd ending that you get if you miss the 2/2 deadline.

Srk700 posted...

There's also a 3rd ending that you get if you miss the 2/2 deadline.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this. This one is, strange. Maruki puts Ren into a coma?

Doe posted...

Thanks for bringing my attention to this. This one is, strange. Maruki puts Ren into a coma?

Yeah, Maruki decides that having to make decisions (and his indecisiveness in accepting Maruki's offer) is a source of pain for Joker so his solution is to put Joker into what is essentially a permanent dream state where he'll never have to make a decision again. Or something along those lines.

Doe posted...

The dynamic reminds me a tiny bit of Death Note?

I mean, you have a detective and a supernatural criminal. One has a sandy-blonde down-do and the other has wild all-over-the-place black hair. Both fiehn friendships, one is hiding a maniacal murderous sociopathic side underneath a charming, friendly veneer. Plus the blondes' respective, voice cracking, full-on-crazy meltdown moments are near identical.

Atlus were pretty damn on the nose with this one, very slight role reversal aside.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/5/3/AAXLygAAD7jR.png

Rewatching the boss fight I did remember one thing that bugs me.

Normally a palace boss when highlighted will display their full name, including revealing a wordy middle name often. It feels very ceremonial, like you have truly exposed their true self or have 'named' a demon and taken power over them. But when you fight Maruki, is boss name is simply 'Maruki'. Not even his first name or title.

Thoughts on Akechi coming back as a force ghost? Did you like the new and improved Akechi in general during the Royal portion and new semester?

saspa posted...

Thoughts on Akechi coming back as a force ghost? Did you like the new and improved Akechi in general during the Royal portion and new semester?

I think it's really funny that Joker did have a wish granted and it was for Akechi to come back. I would've liked even more screentime with him since he had a really enjoyable confidant and dynamic with Joker. It gets repetitive that almost all confidants are people needing Joker to solve a problem for him, but a lot of Joker/Akechi is just them shooting the shit. Them being the only two to notice the new reality was really cool and it's a great moment when he enters the cafe on the new year and confronts you.

I did some more reflection, and I actually like the Persona 5 Royal version of the send-off ending.

The og P5 ending is very good and heartfelt, just like Yu's send off in P4G and everyone chases after the train.

P5R changes it to a less fortunate scenario where the crew's plan of a perfect driving sendaway is botched and they end up going separate.

That wouldn't fit P5og at all, but it actually makes a lot of sense in P5R because it contrasts with the accept-the-deal ending. This is the reality the phantom thieves chose. Plans don't work out. You can't control the train schedule. You just make the most of what you're left with.

I was also shocked to learn that the original P5 doesn't have the fact that everyone but Yusuke is moving away from that area of Tokyo. I like this change a lot. It's everyone's choice to go and do what is best for them, and they know the relationships they forged will overcome that distance, but also that it's important to keep making new bonds wherever you go.

It's interesting that Sumire is not in the car with everyone, although this is consistent with her characterization. She doesn't directly hang out with the others, and even comments that she feels she is intruding on their space while at Leblanc.

I appreciate that she gets such a low key goodbye to Joker. The game goes pretty hard with Kasumi developing a sort of dependent relationship on him, but the ending indicates she will be able to stand on her own from now on.

The ending is only a temporary thing, anyway.

There's no way the shit with Shido, Jaldabaoth, and Maruki escaped the notice of Mitsuru "Nick Fury" Kirijo. And the Phantom Thieves' abilities are literally EXACTLY what the SEES crew has been looking for ever since The Answer.

And given she's head of the Kirijo Group now, I wouldn't be surprised to see her in the same circles as Shido.

Personally, I think Akechi's appearance at the end, flanked by two other guys, hints at her "acquiring" him.

I dont like Persona 5 much but it would be amazing if they went that route with Persona 6.

As much as I loved a lot of things about the game, jesus fucking christ it was too linear & you rarely get to choose anything that matters.

Plus, I fucking loathe Akechi's lame ass and bringing him back for the 3rd semester is never something I would have wanted-- so Maruki was full of shit for that.

But I do agree that Maruki was a great character & really interesting as a villain. So, I have mixed feelings about the 3rd semester.

I found the romances overall pretty disappointing, especially how they're completely ignored by the main plot.

garan posted...

I found the romances overall pretty disappointing, especially how they're completely ignored by the main plot.

P5 confidants are way too heavy on Joker solving someone's problem for them so they could tie it to Mementos requests. Makoto's for example you have like one friend date to the red light district and then 8 levels telling her dumb friend that dating a host is a bad idea. Very little real companionship time or just learning about the other person. Though this is actually a place where Akechi performs a lot better than most.

I have mixed feelings about the main game (mainly resenting everything involving the Okumura arc) but third semester is definitely the arc of all time.

Like. If anyone asks me I'll say my favorite game is P4, but the third semester is so good that I think I like it more than P4

I should finally play Strikers >_>

Srk700 posted...

I liked P5R's ending, but I vastly prefer the original ending scene. Having Joker's friends show up one final time to drive him home themselves felt alot better than what happened in Royal.

This. It's why I just can't get behind calling Royal better. Like ME3, a bad ending can sour everything.

Doe posted...

P5 confidants are way too heavy on Joker solving someone's problem for them so they could tie it to Mementos requests. Makoto's for example you have like one friend date to the red light district and then 8 levels telling her dumb friend that dating a host is a bad idea. Very little real companionship time or just learning about the other person. Though this is actually a place where Akechi performs a lot better than most.

Akechi's social link is a Royal exclusive (technically it was in the base game but it just simply autoleveled as the main story went on like Sae's), so they probably learned that tying everything to a guy in Momentos was dumb.

On a side note, just imagine if the sick young man social link from P3 was in the base game of P5. His story would have been ruined because of the obligatory guy in Momentos issue.

Doe posted...

P5 confidants are way too heavy on Joker solving someone's problem for them so they could tie it to Mementos requests.

I did like that all of them figured out Joker was a Phantom Thief. I'm tired of person A has a secret, person B has a problem that legit ONLY person A could solve with their secret, and B is oblivious. This time around, almost all of them say some variation of "you fixed the EXACT problem I had with a method only you could have used, did you really think I wouldn't realize" so I liked the Mementos parts just for that.

I liked it the first time, but after a while you get the sense that Joker is wildly irresponsible with his secret identity. Legit worse than Ryuji.

i didn't read the topic so idk if people recommended it, but p5 strikers is basically a direct sequel and an absolute must-play if you liked p5, even with it being a musou game

Doe posted...

I liked it the first time, but after a while you get the sense that Joker is wildly irresponsible with his secret identity. Legit worse than Ryuji.

I think 4 was more explicit with this (like Margaret literally spells this out multiple times) but no, youre doing what youre supposed to be doing. You gain strength from your social links, so while people figure out its you, you gain a lot out of doing it (and besides, are they really going to rat out both the person that helped them, and someone who has this insane, unexplained power?).

Doe posted...

Legit worse than Ryuji.

I wouldn't go that far. It's not like Joker targets these tormentors the minute they show up to cause trouble. By the time Joker let's his guard down enough to suggest he might be a phantom thief, it's always in a closed area, and only after he's vetted the confidant pretty hard, getting their link up to 7 or 8. Half of them are in situations where they couldn't turn on Joker even if they wanted to, and the other half are kids who are mostly on his side already.

The only two that are really unbelievable are Yoshida and Sojiro. Yoshida would have too much sense of duty, and Sojiro... well, he doesn't even figure it out during the link, and tbh he was basically playing willfully ignorant, anyway.

Takemi is way too indebted to you. Iwai can't rat on you without landing in a heap of trouble himself. Same goes for kawakami. "get smoked" kid is like 7. Hifumi is legit crushing on you. Ohya's career as a journalist would be destroyed if she broke an informants anonymity. Chihaya is a crazy homeless looking fortune teller in the red light district, so it's not like anyone would listen.

Joker telling these people, after he's spent a hell of a lot of time winning them over, is a far Cry from ryuji running into the streets screaming their identities ever other tuesday.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Yoshida would have too much sense of duty

Yoshida's some kind of radical though who gave a speech explicitly supporting the thieves' actions

DarkBuster22904 posted...

r, is a far Cry from ryuji running into the streets screaming their identities ever other tuesday.

Has anyone ever believed whatever a random teenager shouts in a restaurant.

TetsuoS2 posted...

Has anyone ever believed whatever a random teenager shouts in a restaurant.

Im pretty sure during your walks to school its mentioned multiple times by NPC students that boys have been claiming to be Phantom Thieves in order to try to score girls

Even though they fit the profile, the police had a hell of a time trying to pinpoint who they were because they had no idea how they were doing things

pretty much, and also all the unauthorized merch eventually.

anyone who could actually pinpoint who they were had personal connections to either the victims, the criminals, or were personally affected.

Doe posted...

I did some more reflection, and I actually like the Persona 5 Royal version of the send-off ending.

The og P5 ending is very good and heartfelt, just like Yu's send off in P4G and everyone chases after the train.

P5R changes it to a less fortunate scenario where the crew's plan of a perfect driving sendaway is botched and they end up going separate.

That wouldn't fit P5og at all, but it actually makes a lot of sense in P5R because it contrasts with the accept-the-deal ending. This is the reality the phantom thieves chose. Plans don't work out. You can't control the train schedule. You just make the most of what you're left with.

I was also shocked to learn that the original P5 doesn't have the fact that everyone but Yusuke is moving away from that area of Tokyo. I like this change a lot. It's everyone's choice to go and do what is best for them, and they know the relationships they forged will overcome that distance, but also that it's important to keep making new bonds wherever you go.

It's interesting that Sumire is not in the car with everyone, although this is consistent with her characterization. She doesn't directly hang out with the others, and even comments that she feels she is intruding on their space while at Leblanc.

I appreciate that she gets such a low key goodbye to Joker. The game goes pretty hard with Kasumi developing a sort of dependent relationship on him, but the ending indicates she will be able to stand on her own from now on.

Man finishing Royal I had such a sour taste in my mouth after the Sumire cutscene at the end. After spending all that time helping her with her issues and that fact that all the pre-release marketing was focusing almost solely on her, all we get is bumping into her on the train platform by chance with a casual "take care"

I need more closure than that. Really hoping we get another spin off like P5 Arena or something with her in it because her story just can't end like that

I kinda just dont think they should add new party members in enhanced versions, unless they can work them into the story better. It genuinely feels like they are just teasing you with Sumire the whole game and then the payoff happens and its kinda even worse than that because they were just teasing you with a fake character the whole game? Either integrate her into the story more and let you take her on more missions, or dont bother.

4 Golden did it so much better. Jester and Aeon are woven in so much better and are just relevant to the overall plot.

P5R Justice rework and Councillor are good. Faith's lack of subtlety is eyeroll tier yes. But Aeon was not better, that new content was outright bad. Grating confidant personality. Worst dungeon in the game. It doesn't improve the story at all, it just adds an unneeded wrinkle between the two god fights, the already least interesting element of P4.

The ski trip stuff with the actual P4 cast is great, but that doesn't need Marie.

The dungeon sucked, yes. The social link is subjective. I thought it was intriguing trying to find out who she was. But regardless, it felt like Aeon fit into the broader story a lot more than Faith or Counsellor did.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

The ending is only a temporary thing, anyway.

There's no way the shit with Shido, Jaldabaoth, and Maruki escaped the notice of Mitsuru "Nick Fury" Kirijo. And the Phantom Thieves' abilities (especially at the end, rewriting the cognition of entire populations) are literally EXACTLY what the SEES crew has been looking for ever since The Answer.

And given she's head of the Kirijo Group now, I wouldn't be surprised to see her in the same circles as Shido.

Personally, I think Akechi's appearance at the end, flanked by two other guys, hints at her "acquiring" him.

This is... quite the random take. Why would the main character or characters from Persona 3 have any relation to events or story from Persona 5?

Has there been any indication that the games are related or even connected within the same universe?