Poll of the Day > It's disturbing how common it is for people to think the moonlanding was fake

(+) Yeah! (+)

KodyKeir posted...

Iran Contra

Before it was public knowledge, it was a "conspiracy theory"; the CIA actively promotes them as part of cointelpro (the doctrine of, not the actual FBI op)

Yeah, sorry, I didn't parse the difference between actual conspiracies and conspiracy theories.

also, I think this is pertinent. it wasn't exactly a 'conspiracy theory' in the sense that random people were postulating that this was occurring. it was something that 'came out' within a span of less than 5 years.

In the spring of 1983, the United States launched Operation Staunch, a wide-ranging diplomatic effort to persuade other nations all over the world not to sell arms or spare parts for weapons to Iran. This was at least part of the reason the IranContra affair proved so humiliating for the United States when the story first broke in November 1986 that the U.S. itself was selling arms to Iran.

It wasn't 'random people' making up weird-ass theories that found this stuff out. It broke because real people reported real things. If we look at the majority of real people involved in the plane crashing into the Pentagon, we get a very clear image of what happened.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/7/AAUdByAADuN5.png

ReturnOfFa posted...

Yeah, sorry, I didn't parse the difference between actual conspiracies and conspiracy theories.

That's the point, to the CIA, (and other intelligence agencies) there is no difference, it is intentional to lose things in the static and discredit leaks

KodyKeir posted...

That's the point, to the CIA, (and other intelligence agencies) there is no difference, it is intentional to lose things in the static and discredit leaks

The CIA is barely capable of keeping their shit under wraps for 5 years. They do not have the capability to pull off some of the things that people claim they do. Examples I can think of include 9/11, killing JFK, faking the moon landing, 'doing a coup' in Ukraine in 2014 (plus upon examining this example, it is very fragile), trying to overthrow Syria (only people with hardons for Russia and Assad do this), and doing Jan 6th. There are a lot more that alternative media constantly regurgitates, but I find most of the claims of CIA/FBI conspiracies extremely sensational. If you have any that you think are plausible, I'm down to hear you out though, of course. I am just very hardcore with this because I lived with an extreme conspiracy theorist for 2 years and all he consumed was conspiracy content. I went down a lot of rabbitholes researching them.

ReturnOfFa posted...

There are a lot more that alternative media constantly regurgitates, but I find most of the claims of CIA/FBI conspiracies extremely sensational.

Also by design; and don't limit yourself to domestic LEO's and intelligence. There is a lot of human level incompetence to go around, but there are many examples of global networks that benefit from the current environment of information overload and mistrust in institutions.

The CIA/FBI are easy to point to because they have admitted to doing such in the past; there are operations still happening right now, regardless of attribution.

KodyKeir posted...

Also by design; and don't limit yourself to domestic LEO's and intelligence. There is a lot of human level incompetence to go around, but there are many examples of global networks that benefit from the current environment of information overload and mistrust in institutions.

The CIA/FBI are easy to point to because they have admitted to doing such in the past; there are operations still happening right now, regardless of attribution.

Eh, this is getting a little too...conspiratorial to me. All of that dumbass banter on alternative media is...by design? No, that's going into the human incompetence bin, thanks.

A little light on the examples in your response, happy to hear you name some. and not just saying "Blackrock", we're needing real examples with evidence.

Like with the Pentagon example (which you didn't bring up, fairly), there is too much counter-evidence and 0 evidence for the plane not crashing there. It's a crappy conspiracy theory. If someone had postulated in the early 80s that the USA was selling Iran weaponry while they were saying they weren't, then there would be evidence to point to. When it came out a few years later, there was evidence. What conspiracies are currently floated that have evidence and rely on a vast 'by-design' global network?

sasquatches can suck my balls

is what I'm trying to say

ReturnOfFa posted...

sasquatches can suck my balls

is what I'm trying to say

Bigfoot existing is a conspiracy theory?

Revelation34 posted...

Bigfoot existing is a conspiracy theory?

obviously? or fiction I guess, depending on your definition of conspiracy theory

ReturnOfFa posted...

obviously? or fiction I guess, depending on your definition of conspiracy theory

A conspiracy theory contains a cover up of some kind. What exactly is there to cover up about Bigfoot? Same with flat earth for that matter.

ReturnOfFa posted...

What conspiracies are currently floated that have evidence and rely on a vast 'by-design' global network?

Just history as a whole.

The point I am making is referring to the fostering of theories regardless of their veracity to create a environment that actual signals are lost to the noise. There are a lot of systemic elements that now have access to god like powers, it doesn't take a global conspiracy when there are (roughly) 300 countries with competing interests, and however many private entities that may have an interest in keeping ears on international matters,(not to mention personal actors out in the cold) all working for their own interests.

It's chaos of human nature coming to a head based off passed decisions that are confirmed public knowledge (intelligence services fostering conspiracy theories to obfuscate potential future leaks)

Revelation34 posted...

What exactly is there to cover up about Bigfoot?

Doesn't matter, the act of confusion as to the truth is the purpose, that's the conspiracy.

KodyKeir posted...

Doesn't matter, the act of confusion as to the truth is the purpose, that's the conspiracy.

Wat.

Revelation34 posted...

A conspiracy theory contains a cover up of some kind. What exactly is there to cover up about Bigfoot? Same with flat earth for that matter.

All of the self professed 'conspiracy theorists' I've met would suggest that it is Bigfoot themselves being 'covered up'. Same with flat earthers, they think that it's being 'covered up' for whatever reason.

I mean, same with Kody here. He's claiming that...all of our recorded history is a big 'ole cover-up and nothing is as it seems. Maybe he thinks someone more evidence-based like me isn't 'open-minded' to these dumpass 'conspiracies', but I'm super open to examples, which he almost seems satirically intent on withholding.

KodyKeir posted...

Just history as a whole.

The point I am making is referring to the fostering of theories regardless of their veracity to create a environment that actual signals are lost to the noise. There are a lot of systemic elements that now have access to god like powers, it doesn't take a global conspiracy when there are (roughly) 300 countries with competing interests, and however many private entities that may have an interest in keeping ears on international matters,(not to mention personal actors out in the cold) all working for their own interests.

It's chaos of human nature coming to a head based off passed decisions that are confirmed public knowledge (intelligence services fostering conspiracy theories to obfuscate potential future leaks)

Doesn't matter, the act of confusion as to the truth is the purpose, that's the conspiracy.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/4/0/AAUdByAADuPg.png

Revelation34 posted...

Wat.

Exactly

The greater intelligence community is systemic and non homogeneous, thousands of interests in competition with each other, many have methods and goals that align with each other in interesting ways. This creates the illusion of a massive conspiracy of individuals who run the world, but most times the jurisdictional issues result in the right hand investigating the left hands investigation into what the right hand is doing.

i think we're in satire zone

maybe

i don't know

I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside.

ReturnOfFa posted...

I mean, same with Kody here. He's claiming that...all of our recorded history is a big 'ole cover-up and nothing is as it seems.

I think it's exactly what it seems in the given moment.

That aside, what I am claiming (and you can independently verify) that conspiracy theories are encouraged by the intelligence community, they serve a purpose.

ReturnOfFa posted...

i think we're in satire zone

maybe

i don't know

Doesn't matter.

Thats the point. The truth could be stated plainly but is lost in the static of confusion created by the noise that is the conspiracy theory community.
Metalsonic66 posted...

I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the countryside.

Reminds me of a Woody Allen movie where Robin Williams played an actor that was out of focus from the rest of reality.

almost all conspiracy claims are utter nonsense.

the only one that has any validity is the one that claims trump is Hilary in drag and/or vice versa.

shadowsword87 posted...

Then why are so many flat earth documentaries funded by predominantly christian forward organizations?

Also, it doesn't say that. But, that doesn't mean that it's a belief among people that the bible does say the earth is flat.

For the record the modern flat earth movement is indeed based on Biblical literalism. The Bible doesn't say the earth is flat but it contains passages that could be construed as indicating a flat earth(anyone can google the passages, I'm not trying to defend these interpretations). The 19th century pamphlet Zetetic Astronomy: Earth not a Globe is their book of pseudoscience which all prominent flat earthers memorize and regurgitate ad nauseam. The dude who wrote that was motivated to prove a literalist interpretation of the Bible. He formed the Zetetic Society which evolved into the modern Flat Earth Society. Usually they claim the coverup is to hide God and the firmament. Why? Who the fuck knows. They don't even know. They also claim NASA is the Hebrew word Na-sha meaning "to deceive".

One thing Ive learned is that when you follow 90% of clearly ridiculous conspiracy theories deeply enough, the end up containing some sort of weird antisemitic belief at their core. Everything from flat eathers to Q Anon. Moral is that Nazis will infiltrate or co-op any and all fringe beliefs and countercultures that will let them, and theyve been trying it from the get go. If the belief or movement lacks critical thought to begin with, the followers will be poorly equipped to stave off this infiltration

Bigfoot is fact or havent you seen Roseanne Bahr?

I understand people not believing in stuff if theres no proof, but if there is then people be stupid.

JigsawTDCII posted...

One thing Ive learned is that when you follow 90% of clearly ridiculous conspiracy theories deeply enough, they end up containing some sort of weird antisemitic belief at their core. Everything from flat eathers to Q Anon. Moral is that Nazis will infiltrate or co-op any and all fringe beliefs and countercultures that will let them, and theyve been trying it from the get go. If the belief or movement lacks critical thought to begin with, the followers will be poorly equipped to stave off this infiltration

They want to be called Christian Nationals now.

Also of note, the subsection of the CIA made up of true believers who call themselves Christians In Action. G Gordon Liddy comes to mind.

JigsawTDCII posted...

One thing Ive learned is that when you follow 90% of clearly ridiculous conspiracy theories deeply enough, they end up containing some sort of weird antisemitic belief at their core. Everything from flat eathers to Q Anon. Moral is that Nazis will infiltrate or co-op any and all fringe beliefs and countercultures that will let them, and theyve been trying it from the get go. If the belief or movement lacks critical thought to begin with, the followers will be poorly equipped to stave off this infiltration

Andrew Calleghan has said in interviews that The Flat Earth Conference attendees were by far the most anti-semetic group he's interviewed.

ReturnOfFa posted...

Andrew Calleghan has said in interviews that The Flat Earth Conference attendees were by far the most anti-semetic group he's interviewed.

They have many members around the globe.

We should be really careful with our moon

without it, or if its orbit got messed up, wed lose the magnetic field around earth and cosmic radiation would kill everything

ReturnOfFa posted...

Andrew Calleghan has said in interviews that The Flat Earth Conference attendees were by far the most anti-semetic group he's interviewed.

yeah, he seems to have knack for quickly getting to the antisemitic core of a lot of the conspiracy fringe groups he interviews. That, and getting randos to shoot him (usually terrible) bars.

Some people just perversely disbelieve things with lots of evidence and believe in things with next to none. They confuse healthy scepticism with rampant, paranoid cynicism

The flat earth has absolutely nothing to do with the canonical bible.

Anyone who claims otherwise has been misinformed or misled. Or is attempting to misinform, or mislead others.

i believe its very possible the moon landing was faked to get the Soviet Union to waste a bunch of money but i really dont care either way. Genius strategy if thats what really happened though

JCvgluvr posted...

The flat earth has absolutely nothing to do with the canonical bible.

Anyone who claims otherwise has been misinformed or misled. Or is attempting to misinform, or mislead others.

What, christians have never been misinformed about what's in the bible.

Some of my classmates even talked about taking the infowars supplements a year or so ago and one of them wished Alex Jones would run for president. Now its a trade school so there are a bunch of maga weirdos but that supplement shit is wild to me

Mensis posted...

Some of my classmates even talked about taking the infowars supplements a year or so ago and one of them wished Alex Jones would run for president. Now its a trade school so there are a bunch of maga weirdos but that supplement shit is wild to me

DON'T TRUST THE VACCINE

TRUST BRAINFORCE

chandlermbing posted...

Some people just perversely disbelieve things with lots of evidence and believe in things with next to none. They confuse healthy scepticism with rampant, paranoid cynicism

It's the whole "I want to be part of the special in-group that knows the real truth" mentality that certain people have. When religion isn't enough to scratch that itch for people, they turn to conspiracy theories.

The sad thing is that there's worse people than Alex Jones out there.

kind9 posted...

They also claim NASA is the Hebrew word Na-sha meaning "to deceive".

Does the devil know nothing of subtlety?