LogFAQs


Current Events > European swords were not heavy and it didn't take a pulley to pick up a knight

Topic List
Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Sphyx
09/27/22 1:04:34 AM
#201:


Can't say I was initially interested in this level of analysis of weapons, but reading through this topic it has dawned on me how genuinely invested some of you guys are.

By the time I got through all the current posts, that interest became somewhat infectious.

CE could do with more topics like this.

---
You're so vain,
You probably think this sig is about you.
... Copied to Clipboard!
#202
Post #202 was unavailable or deleted.
Smackems
09/27/22 1:44:50 AM
#203:


203 posts about fighting but no one is fighting

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/27/22 1:48:03 AM
#204:


Smackems posted...
203 posts about fighting but no one is fighting
That's good!

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Scohen
09/27/22 8:43:02 AM
#205:


ScazarMeltex posted...
@Gladius
You said you were a HEMA girl. Does where you train have a specific style? The HEMA people who take over the dojo after us (Iaido and Battojutso) are primarily Bolognese, specifically Marozzo. They also do pugilism, dagger, and various polearms as well. It's run by a guy named Ken Harding who is apparently a big name dude in the HEMA world. He's a cool guy, very knowledgeable on a lot of subjects.

Mostly just curious. I've been thinking about getting into other arts besides Okinawan Kenpo and Iaido, I just don't have the extra time to spare to learn an entire new art, as much as I would like to.

@ScazarMeltex pugilism? Like, the old school version of boxing? Please tell us more that sounds cool


---
The Artist has a duty, to seduce the ear and delight the spirit. So say goodbye to those two goobies, and hello to an evening with Sander Cohen.
... Copied to Clipboard!
ScazarMeltex
09/27/22 1:07:15 PM
#206:


Scohen posted...
@ScazarMeltex pugilism? Like, the old school version of boxing? Please tell us more that sounds cool
Not much I can tell you honestly as it's not my art. From what I've seen of the class though yeah it's the old school version of boxing. The stance is lower, hand placement is different, in tighter to the body and angles to protect the face and the strikes are different because it meant to be done with handwraps as opposed to gloves. It's similar in aspects to Asian style style striking arts in that you have to strengthen the hands, wrists, and knuckles so that you don't fuck them up when you hit a dude's skull.

Much like HEMA rapier or saber though, in pugilism you can see the roots of the modern sport in the older, more combat oriented art.

@Gladius
See we don't have a broader Ryu like that instead we cover a broad variety of Iai schools. Some Gendai, some Koryu. Specifically Seitei, Toho, the three lines of Toyama Ryu, Mugai Ryu, and Eishen Ryu. Then the dojo also teaches the Odo line of Okinawan Kenpo which covers open hand, bo, eku bo, nunti bo, sai, tonfa, and kama. Which is why, as I said, I just don't have time as much as I would like to, to take up HEMA

---
Furthermore, The GOP is a Fascist Organization and must be destroyed
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/27/22 1:08:47 PM
#207:


So many different schools of sword just to get beat by a bloke with a 10 ft spear

unless you have a shield

yes I'm aware it's not 100% of the time. More like 90%

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Scohen
09/27/22 1:19:59 PM
#208:


Smackems posted...
So many different schools of sword just to get beat by a bloke with a 10 ft spear

unless you have a shield

yes I'm aware it's not 100% of the time. More like 90%

that is because spears are weapons of war only, while you could bring a sword with you everywhere and you can also duel and stuff like that.


---
The Artist has a duty, to seduce the ear and delight the spirit. So say goodbye to those two goobies, and hello to an evening with Sander Cohen.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/27/22 1:20:52 PM
#209:


Scohen posted...
that is because spears are weapons of war only, while you could bring a sword with you everywhere and you can also duel and stuff like that.
Even so

I'm sure there were fuckers that had easy access to polearms too. Probably rare af tho and illegal

Swords DID come into contact with polearms and it was probably not pretty

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Scohen
09/27/22 1:22:39 PM
#210:


Smackems posted...
Even so

I'm sure there were fuckers that had easy access to polearms too. Probably rare af tho and illegal

you cant use a spear effectively in the streets or indoors, especially since we are talking about the streets from centuries ago when swords were a thing and guns didnt exist.


---
The Artist has a duty, to seduce the ear and delight the spirit. So say goodbye to those two goobies, and hello to an evening with Sander Cohen.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/27/22 1:25:13 PM
#211:


Scohen posted...
you cant use a spear effectively in the streets or indoors, especially since we are talking about the streets from centuries ago when swords were a thing and guns didnt exist.

Scohen posted...
you cant use a spear effectively in the streets or indoors, especially since we are talking about the streets from centuries ago when swords were a thing and guns didnt exist.
I am aware. I wasn't being very serious lol

I'm talking in a battlefield situation. Spear vs longsword, spear probably wins with way less training. Because it's long as fuck

There are ways around it, though. And like it's been said, if you're drawing your sidearm sword on the battlefield, without a shield, you're in deep shit

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Scohen
09/27/22 1:32:46 PM
#212:


Smackems posted...
I am aware. I wasn't being very serious lol

I'm talking in a battlefield situation. Spear vs longsword, spear probably wins with way less training. Because it's long as fuck

There are ways around it, though. And like it's been said, if you're drawing your sidearm sword on the battlefield, without a shield, you're in deep shit

for sure!

spears are the best non-fire war weapon by far.


---
The Artist has a duty, to seduce the ear and delight the spirit. So say goodbye to those two goobies, and hello to an evening with Sander Cohen.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/27/22 3:05:07 PM
#213:


Thing about spears is once you get around the point it's game over

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
FigureOfSpeech
09/27/22 4:12:48 PM
#214:


They had a neat weapon on forged in fire that was sort of a sword/spear hybrid but not like a naginata or polearm with a sword-like tip. It was called a boar sword and while it looked mostly like a 2-handed sword, the blade was actually fairly short and the rest of it above the handle/guard was more like a spear shaft. It had side spikes separating the blade from the shaft-like part, so basically it was used to hunt and defend against boars, with the blade being long enough to be lethal but the spikes to guard against the boar just impaling itself further in an effort to gore the hunter. I had heard of boar spears before the show, but this was definitely a sword. Pretty neat and smart design for its function.

---
Always check timestamps...
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/27/22 5:22:53 PM
#215:


I've seen those before

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Xethuminra
09/27/22 5:30:25 PM
#216:


Sphyx posted...
Can't say I was initially interested in this level of analysis of weapons, but reading through this topic it has dawned on me how genuinely invested some of you guys are.

By the time I got through all the current posts, that interest became somewhat infectious.
Aye

CE could use more topics like these
... Copied to Clipboard!
#217
Post #217 was unavailable or deleted.
ArchNemo
09/28/22 11:17:13 AM
#218:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Is this true?

A lot of samurai did use spears but that's because not every samurai was wealthy and swords were expensive. Same with why swords weren't common in European armies. But I'm not sure I believe that if you could afford a sword you wouldn't use it. Especially because someone wealthy enough to afford a sword wasn't going to be fighting in a spear line anyway.

I should say, longswords/katanas specifically since short swords would be used in close quarters when spears were ineffective

---
Down with the Signess.
... Copied to Clipboard!
ScazarMeltex
09/28/22 11:28:43 AM
#219:


ArchNemo posted...
Is this true?

A lot of samurai did use spears but that's because not every samurai was wealthy and swords were expensive. Same with why swords weren't common in European armies. But I'm not sure I believe that if you could afford a sword you wouldn't use it. Especially because someone wealthy enough to afford a sword wasn't going to be fighting in a spear line anyway.
Samurai were a lot of different things over a 400-500 year period. The spear was the main weapon because it was better to use from horseback and in formation. Earlier versions of the katana were called Tachi and were meant to be used from horseback in a way similar to saber but even then it was the secondary weapon.

Swords are a horrible formation weapon unless protected by large shields, ala roman legions. Not to mention that while you can wield a katana one handed, that's absolutely not optimal beyond the actually draw/strike of Iaijutsu, after which you will have both hands in the weapon. The katana functioned as your backup weapon on a battlefield, and at home it was your walking around property, town, or short travel weapon.

You have to remember that, like feudal Europe's armies knights were only a very small portion of the armies, so to were Samurai.

---
Furthermore, The GOP is a Fascist Organization and must be destroyed
... Copied to Clipboard!
#220
Post #220 was unavailable or deleted.
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 11:30:36 AM
#221:


Has anybody ever tried to mount a small "Mace Head" on the opposite end of a Spear to get the best of both worlds?

Spear Point for Thrusting / Slashing & Mace Head for Bashing?

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 11:33:34 AM
#222:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Wasn't the Tanto their backup blade when the Sword wasn't an option?

Shouldn't the hierarchy of weapons be -> Bow, Spear, Sword, & Dagger?

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
#223
Post #223 was unavailable or deleted.
ScazarMeltex
09/28/22 11:40:06 AM
#224:


Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...
Wasn't the Tanto their backup blade when the Sword wasn't an option?

Shouldn't the hierarchy of weapons be -> Bow, Spear, Sword, & Dagger?
My understanding is this. Earlier I mention the Tachi, which was the older version of the katana that had a more pronounced curvature and was meant to be used from horseback, it was worn edge down unlike the katana that is worn edge up. That was paired with the tanto. The Katana came later and when it did eventually the tanto was mostly phased out in favor of the Wakizashi. At least by samurai. Women did carry a smaller version in their obi sometimes for self defense.

The tanto would be used for extreme close quarters, think grappling. Most old school grappling techniques involved pinning an opponent and then either drawing your own or theirs and stabbing the shit out of them or cutting their throat or an artery.

---
Furthermore, The GOP is a Fascist Organization and must be destroyed
... Copied to Clipboard!
#225
Post #225 was unavailable or deleted.
#226
Post #226 was unavailable or deleted.
ScazarMeltex
09/28/22 11:46:34 AM
#227:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giJ928xjeRA
Video is short and quality is trash but you can see several variations from about 25-30 seconds of the grapple, takedown, and stab the shit out of with tanto as I earlier described.

---
Furthermore, The GOP is a Fascist Organization and must be destroyed
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 11:54:22 AM
#228:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


New Hierarchy -> Bow, Spear, Sword, Short Sword, & Dagger?

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
#229
Post #229 was unavailable or deleted.
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 12:14:40 PM
#230:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y19_0fwI4g

I really like the Spiral design of this Mace Head.

If designed using modern metals and hardened properly, it could be pretty sweet.

There's no real dead spot when applying force with that design and it's fundamentally user safe since there is no spikey bits.

Ergo, no way to accidentally poke yourself.

Plus I'm a fan of interesting Geometric designs =D

What do you all think?

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/28/22 12:30:38 PM
#231:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

If you can get around the point of a regular ass spear and grab it, taking some of the control of it, I would think that makes it useless at that point even if you know a few techniques. At that point I would think the spear becomes a liability and you're better off drawing your sidearm or dagger or whatever you have. That's what makes sense to me and I may be wrong, but I try to envision myself in that situation where they're holding it and closing in and it just seems there's not much you can do besides switch up quickly. But again I can't test this like you can

I'm sure there are things you CAN do, but I'd rather not take the chance of them having too much control over my own weapon

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...
Wasn't the Tanto their backup blade when the Sword wasn't an option?

Shouldn't the hierarchy of weapons be -> Bow, Spear, Sword, & Dagger?
I would assume it's similar to European fighting and that drawing a tanto in close quarters to grapple, especially armored opponents, would be effective and use that better control of the dagger to get into vulnerable spots

Idk how I read your question but I don't think I answered it right lol

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
#232
Post #232 was unavailable or deleted.
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 1:12:42 PM
#233:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I think in a fictional world, like Star Trek, where you have members that are Bi-Pedal & Bi-Brachial species.

Bi-Pedal = 2x Legs
Bi-Brachial = 2x Arms

Most of the UFP (United Federation of Planets) member species are Humanoid for obvious acting/production reasons.

So in universe most member species are Bi-PaB's (Bi-{Pedal & Brachial}-oids).

So most martial arts will have cross compatibility between not just Human based Martial Arts, but many species that have similar characteristics as us humans. 2 Arms, 2 Legs, 1 Head, 1 Chest, 1 Torso, 1 Pelvis.

At that point Martial Arts should be able to cross polinate and we can learn ALOT from each other.

Not just Human based Martial Arts, but Alien styles as well.

That also means access to Melee weapons that are alien in nature.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/0/5/AAAFvAAADuVN.png

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/0/6/AAAFvAAADuVO.jpg
Jem'Hadar Kar'takin


---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
#234
Post #234 was unavailable or deleted.
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 1:29:00 PM
#235:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Terri Farrel who played Dax, she was able to easily wield one in the lore of the show.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bat%27leth
A "warrior's configuration" for a bat'leth was "tip to tip 116 centimeters, weight five point three kilos with an exterior handgripping diameter of five centimeters [with] blades composite baakonite." (DS9: "Blood Oath")
While 5.3 kg (11.684 pounds) is pretty heavy, you are using 2 hands to manuever it.

For humans, it would be very unwieldy.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/3/AAAFvAAAC9GZ.png
We would need a modified version based on different metallurgy and a design that would lighten it up.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/2/AAAFvAAADuVU.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/3/AAAFvAAADuVV.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/4/AAAFvAAADuVW.jpg


---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 1:30:50 PM
#236:


This was the dumbest re-imagining of the Bat'leth by newer Star Trek shows.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/7/AAAFvAAADuVZ.jpg
I'm like WTF is this? Zero Practicality, all show/flash, no thought put into it's design.

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/28/22 1:33:06 PM
#237:


Why dont they just shoot them

Don't they gave lasers

I assume the... Ugly guys like honorable combat but... Fuck that lol

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
#238
Post #238 was unavailable or deleted.
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 2:30:18 PM
#239:


Smackems posted...
Why dont they just shoot them

Don't they gave lasers

I assume the... Ugly guys like honorable combat but... Fuck that lol
They have Disruptor Pistols, but their personal preference is to get face to face and kill their opponents with Bat'leths. That's the Klingon Warrior way.

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/28/22 2:42:42 PM
#240:


Spears btw aren't just better because of formations; it's because of reach. The entirety of human warfare, and hunting, has always been about getting the other guy before they can get you

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight
09/28/22 2:56:53 PM
#241:


Smackems posted...
Spears btw aren't just better because of formations; it's because of reach. The entirety of human warfare, and hunting, has always been about getting the other guy before they can get you

And how easy it is to make and supply your army with.

---
The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board.
"You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me."
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/28/22 3:00:22 PM
#242:


LightHawKnight posted...
And how easy it is to make and supply your army with.
And how little training they need to make them effective

And they look cool

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Powdered_Toast
09/28/22 8:14:46 PM
#243:


FigureOfSpeech posted...
maybe one of these days I'll post a pic of me with my biggest machete. It's easily average sword length. Looks like something that would have been used to cut sugarcane in the early 1900s
Let's see it.

---
Want some rye? 'Course ya do!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 8:31:24 PM
#244:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM2_QeGFBkI

Hollywood shows how incompetent / noob-ish they are when it comes to swords in the new LotR Prequel TV series.

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
PrettyBoyFloyd
09/28/22 8:38:15 PM
#245:


This is one bad looking machete.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/9/AABKDxAADubD.jpg

---
The Evil Republicans - Est.2004 - WoT
[Government Destabilizing Branch]
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 8:48:48 PM
#246:


PrettyBoyFloyd posted...
This is one bad looking machete.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/9/AABKDxAADubD.jpg
What purpose does the indented cuts on the back of the blade serve?

Why are there lots of little holes through the blade on the spine?

Why is the hilt shaped the way it does with 2x prongs?

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
VampireCoyote
09/28/22 8:50:24 PM
#247:


platemail was much lighter and more maneuverable than chain mail

thats something that a lot of fantasy fiction and games gets wrong

---
She/her
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/28/22 8:53:55 PM
#248:


Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...
What purpose does the indented cuts on the back of the blade serve?

Why are there lots of little holes through the blade on the spine?

Why is the hilt shaped the way it does with 2x prongs?
To stab bushes

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Smackems
09/28/22 8:54:30 PM
#249:


VampireCoyote posted...
platemail was much lighter and more maneuverable than chain mail

thats something that a lot of fantasy fiction and games gets wrong
At this point though it has to be a game balance change

---
Common sense says it may not taste good, but it'll make a turd.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamen_Rider_Blade
09/28/22 9:01:04 PM
#250:


Smackems posted...
To stab bushes
Why would you use the hilt instead of the tip of your blade to stab a bush?

---
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'
... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List
Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6