Board 8 > FE8 or FE Echoes

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't know which number Echoes is lol.

I own both these games but no longer have the hardware to run them, but I just got them working on my phone so finally want to give them a go (obviously I could have gotten FE8 running like 3 phones ago, but was never in the mood)

It's not like I won't be playing both of these, but which to hit first? They're both blind spots for me.

I'm in the same situation for Shadow Dragon...but I know there's no rush to play that one.

Echoes is a remake of an earlier FE, but isn't nearly as shitty as Shadow Dragon was.

8 is Sacred Stones and nice, but easy.

FE8 is definitely the better game but Echoes has great presentation, maybe the best in the series.

All I know ahead of time is;

Sacred Stones - as you mentioned, easy. I've been told it doesn't matter at all which characters you choose to level because of this, and that not only is this game's Jagen viable but they're also the best unit in FE history?? Last thing is I know there are two paths, I assume I'll play the girl path because it's just what I do.

Echoes - I don't know anything at all about Echoes other than people generally seem to like it other than the maps, which I've been told are pretty terrible and mostly just big open fields.

if you're doing both, do SS first since Echoes feels more modern

FE8's Jagen is very good. Although, Jagens in general aren't as bad as people used to think they were. Like in FE7, it turns out it takes a long time for Marcus to actually fall off and there's more to the game than just the final chapter.

FE8 and SoV are different enough that I don't think it really matters which order you play them in if you plan to play both.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I assume I'll play the girl path because it's just what I do.

Both characters are excellent don't worry about this

Seth is indeed one of the best crutch units in the series, though Titania probably has him beat from either of Ike's games. It says a lot when one of the "worst" main units in FE8 is a Falcoknight with Seth's base stats at 20-7 (though my personal least favorite is a shaman with absolutely no luck.)

FE8 can have some difficulty to it, but it comes from not doing any of the random encounters, which puts two of three "trainees" into the useless category, and makes your initial thief struggle a whole lot.

Isquen posted...

Seth is indeed one of the best crutch units in the series, though Titania probably has him beat from either of Ike's games. It says a lot when one of the "worst" main units in FE8 is a Falcoknight with Seth's base stats at 20-7 (though my personal least favorite is a shaman with absolutely no luck.)

Syrene is only really bad because her stats are bad for her late join time. If you benched Seth and only started using him around the time you get Syrene, he'd be just as bad.

And Knoll is fairly underrated. He can promote to Summoner right away, which means you get some nice cannon fodder to play around with.

Sacred Stones is generally a safer bet to enjoy. I love Echoes but it's kind of off in its own little world doing its own thing in a lot of ways. It's a game that gets way better when you're better at and know how to make some of the notoriously tedious sections not nearly as bad

OH

Also want to ask if that Shadow and Light game or whatever it's called they put out on Switch is actually worth playing, or if it's just a novelty.

I really enjoyed both of them. They're both probably more casual-friendly than the average FE game, and the production values of Echoes are great (the VA for one of the villains in particular gives an amazing performance).

I really like Echoess characters and presentation. The DLC was pretty nice too. The maps are among the worst in the series though. Celicas maps are just particularly terrible with the desert and swamp.

Sacred Stones is pretty standard Fire Emblem, if a little easy.

FE1 on Switch is terrible because FE1 is terrible. In particular, its just the NES version which is just extremely outdated.

Echoes is such a weird game. Not just the maps - so many mechanics are different as well. If you want a more traditional FE, go Sacred Stones. If you're just interested in a strategy game with a more modern presentation, go Echoes.

Never played Echoes but hope you're planning on playing both routes of FE8 as there are some significant differences between the two! And it's easy enough anyway so won't take too long really.

MysteriousStan posted...

Never played Echoes but hope you're planning on playing both routes of FE8 as there are some significant differences between the two! And it's easy enough anyway so won't take too long really.

I see this divergence is in chapter 8, does it let you start from that chapter on replay or should I make a seperate save file?

It does not no, you have to play from the beginning. I can't remember if you can have separate save files or not but if you're able to create one before the choice then yeah do that if you don't want to do the first 8 chapters again.

KamikazePotato posted...

Echoes is such a weird game. Not just the maps - so many mechanics are different as well. If you want a more traditional FE, go Sacred Stones. If you're just interested in a strategy game with a more modern presentation, go Echoes.

I'm fine with both! I just have a desperate need to play any FE since the Engage reveal and I figure I should play something new instead of a 5th Three Houses run.

Tempted to see if I can get Path and Dawn working as well but I'm not holding my breath, especially on the Wii one (I can never remember which is which).

I known there's Wargroove as well, but I just can't get into it.

MysteriousStan posted...

It does not no, you have to play from the beginning. I can't remember if you can have separate save files or not but if you're able to create one before the choice then yeah do that if you don't want to do the first 8 chapters again.

I think they give you a chance to save before the route split

UshiromiyaEva posted...

OH

Also want to ask if that Shadow and Light game or whatever it's called they put out on Switch is actually worth playing, or if it's just a novelty.

Did you buy it a year and a half ago when it came out? Because if you didn't, you can't legally buy it anymore.

If you haven't played Path of Radiance, I would strongly recommend just emulating it instead. It's not hard and Ike's games are by far the best in the series.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Did you buy it a year and a half ago when it came out? Because if you didn't, you can't legally buy it anymore.

Yeah I bought it on principle.

KamikazePotato posted...

If you haven't played Path of Radiance, I would strongly recommend just emulating it instead. It's not hard and Ike's games are by far the best in the series.

I played them when they came out! Been ages, though. I remember loving them.

Oh wait, Shadow Dragon is also FE1 isn't it?

I...would assume between the two that SD is the one to hit eventually?

A friend in Discord just informed me about FE12 which I didn't even know existed, much less had a fan patch, so maybe I should hit Shadow Dragon earlier than expected!

FE12 is hilarious. It's not a bad game, but it IS the prototype for the avatar main characters they used since then. Watch as they blatantly adjust the original plot of Fire Emblem 3 to shoehorn in an borderline mary sue for the player to control.

Shadow Dragon is a good game, just very bare bones unless you play on the higher difficulties where its new mechanics start to shine. Still has some problems even there (the first three chapters on H5 are widely hated for good reason), FE12 is basically just a better version of everything it does in gameplay where all of the good ideas Shadow Dragon had are better implemented on mostly better maps.

I bought SD on launch, but I remember I didn't play it because it was, uh...really ugly.

Shadow Dragon is like the opposite of Echoes: good gameplay but it looks terrible. New Mystery/FE12 is an improvement all around (still kinda ugly though) and is one of my favorite games in the series. Real shame it never got officially localized.

I guess that just goes to show how much of a bad place that series was in before Awakening.

Looks like it's the Ace Attorney Investigations situation to a T.

OK, I have 8, 11, 12, and 15 all ready to play, probably just going to do then in order.

Is there any pre 7 game worth hitting, other than 4 since that probably getting a remake soon?

7 is a prequel of 6

Id recommend reading a LP of 5 at least. Theres a lot of unique experiences about that game.

I like 12 but yeah, it kinda is the opposite of Echoes. The presentation is pretty dry. Class changing can be fun, though.

If you like 7 and 8 then you might as well play 6, it has some noticeable differences (enemies are fewer in number but stronger, maps are bigger, accuracy is worse across the board) but is still similar enough to likely appeal to someone who likes the other GBA games. 1-3 all have remakes that effectively replace them for anyone that isn't a huge enough fan of the series to want to try them for curiosity's sake. 4 is great (my favourite in the series and probably my favourite game of all time) but is very much its own thing and tends to be something people either love or hate. 5 has a very vocal fanbase but it kind of sucks, it has some cool ideas here and there but its map design is deeply flawed and undermines most of its theoretical good qualities.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I guess that just goes to show how much of a bad place that series was in before Awakening.

Looks like it's the Ace Attorney Investigations situation to a T.

But I object to that too, because all the SNES and GBA Fire Emblems were great, and so were the Tellius games (useless unit hiccups/the support system being generic in Radiant Dawn aside.)

Oh that wasn't a statement of quality, it was a statement of success.

6 is good. It's basically like 7 and 8 but significantly harder.

People like 5 a lot too but I can't vouch for that one, only mainline game I haven't played some version of. It's an interquel/side story for FE4 and arguably the hardest game in the series.

6 is like the other GBA games, although it's probably a bit harder since enemies are generally stronger and many bosses are super tanky and can actually dodge. It's also one of the harder ones to just play blind, due to the true ending requirements (they kind of make sense when you know about them, just kind of annoying to actually fulfill basically you need to get all the legendary weapons and keep them intact until the end of the game. and to get a country's legendary weapon you have to keep most of the characters from that character alive at least until the end of the country's plot arc and potentially finish certain maps under a certain number of turns to get to the gaiden chapter that contains it. ) I guess it kind of only got "redeemed" recently in the western community, with a bit more change in how players actually play the game (from trying to baby sit and min max units to more speedrunning/low turn counting maps) since you pretty much need to use prepromotes and or promote early to stand a decent chance of surviving bosses, and need to be a bit more efficient at ferrying units around to where they're needed.

4 and 5 are probably worth at least trying due to the experience (since yeah there's very little reason to play 1-3 over the remakes) even if you don't finish them. 4 is pretty different from the rest fo the series but also ends up getting a lot of criticism too because it's got a lot of dead time just moving units from place to place and lacking some qol stuff (like I think I heard people say that gold isn't pooled so actually going to vendors and buying stuff is a pain). 5 is closer to the GBA games at least on the surface (since there's some other mechanics in play like capturing units and the stamina system, and I think some under the hood stuff is different too), but it's pretty hard to play blind and has some gotcha moments.

TeamRocketElite posted...

FE8's Jagen is very good. Although, Jagens in general aren't as bad as people used to think they were. Like in FE7, it turns out it takes a long time for Marcus to actually fall off and there's more to the game than just the final chapter.

FE8 and SoV are different enough that I don't think it really matters which order you play them in if you plan to play both.

I think the risk of Jagens was always more the risk of them sucking up all your exp if you overused them rather than them outright sucking. Someone just lost sight of that at some point and now the narrative is "well people said they were terrible but their growths aren't that awful for their bases" and that was not really ever the major takeaway to have regarding Jagens.

Although Seth doesn't really have this problem either because of the abundance of EXP available in FE8.

I think I'm going to at least try a little but if everything except 4 and wait to see what happens with that one (other than 1-3 of course).

One would...ASSUME that if 4 gets a remake that 5 would also get one as the cutoff point before the GBA game, but I'm sure that would be a LOOOOONG time from now even if so.

Mr_Crispy posted...

I think I heard people say that gold isn't pooled so actually going to vendors and buying stuff is a pain

This feels like a bigger pain than it actually is in practice. Weapons don't permanently break in FE4 so you don't end up buying things from shops much at all. A lot of the missing QOL stuff is like this -- it feels inconvenient but only if you're playing FE4 like FE7, when you should be playing FE4 like FE4.

That said the first 2 or 3 chapters do have a ridiculous amount of slowly marching units through shitty terrain that only exists to waste your time. That part is pretty indefensible. And of course everything from that era is missing some modern QOL improvements.

Yeah the gold thing isn't as annoying as you would think. It's also not that hard to transfer gold between units, anyway, if you need to. Plus the way the arena works in that game means you'll likely have a huge surplus of gold anyway.

FE4 has a few flaws but its mostly not the things you'd think are the flaws if you're just getting the systems explained to you.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/7/1/AAeolZAADsP3.jpg

Truly how the game was meant to be played.

Dungeon crawling??

Annoyed that I made Faye a Cleric...then a Cleric immediately joins.

Cleric Faye is actually the meta pick, so don't worry about it.

Lopen posted...

I think the risk of Jagens was always more the risk of them sucking up all your exp if you overused them rather than them outright sucking. Someone just lost sight of that at some point and now the narrative is "well people said they were terrible but their growths aren't that awful for their bases" and that was not really ever the major takeaway to have regarding Jagens.

Although Seth doesn't really have this problem either because of the abundance of EXP available in FE8.

Sucking up exp was a big deal for sure. But, they were also considered bad units on top of that because they fell off before the final chapter. It isn't so much their growth are better than expected. It's their base stats hold up for longer than expected. Not all the way to the end of the game, but quite long.

And yes, Seth does not have this problem. I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard he can just solo the entire game so it doesn't matter that no one else gets exp.

Seth's endgame stats are great and you can freely use him without risking your other units exp growth. Most broken unit in the series in my partially informed opinion.

But yeah it's mostly the bases that end up carrying them. I mean I've used Marcus (who is probably the worst of the games I've played) in endgame teams even and while he can't carry the team without stat items he isn't a liability. I don't know who the worst Jagen in the series is but I do actually wonder if any of them are so bad that they become dead weight.

Other than Revelation Gunter(who I think was designed to be awful), I think the only one who really becomes dead weight is FE6 Marcus. Even then, he's still pretty strong for about half the game and serviceable for a bit after that, only falling off because the enemies get pretty strong.

Oh right FE6 Marcus. Can't honestly say I've ever used him but half the cast in that game became dead weight in my one playthrough (will play it again if it gets a US release but not until then) because the game is actually hard. Haha.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Dungeon crawling??

Annoyed that I made Faye a Cleric...then a Cleric immediately joins.

Cleric Faye is actually great, the two synergize really well together. She gets a couple of great spells you otherwise either don't get on Alm's route or don't get until quite late, and with spells costing HP her and Silque can fuel each other pretty much infinitely.

Lopen posted...

I don't know who the worst Jagen in the series is but I do actually wonder if any of them are so bad that they become dead weight.

FE11 Jagen kind of becomes dead weight eventually, but it takes an eternity (well, it's more he stops being worth deploying for a while, then randomly has a comeback for a map where you need every promoted flyer with C lances you can possibly get), FE12 Arran falls off relatively quickly. Radiant Dawn Sothe is pretty sad in part 4, though he's mostly not quite "dies to everything and does nothing to anything" levels of dead weight.

Radiant Dawn Sothe is less of an issue with Jagen stats (especially if you data transferred PoR Sothe) and more of an issue with "the whole of the Dawn Brigade sucks ass/sucks for availability/both"... and Whisper having the worst mastery skill in the game.

Sure is fun to leave something on 1 HP because you had to grandstand :)

Whisper is just a terrible class in general. Volke's base strength is higher than the Whisper's cap, and his base strength isn't even that great. At least by being forced to bring Sothe to the tower, you have a free slot to bring Nasir to the last two chapters.