Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 7 - Oh my God it's a BLACK HOOOOLE (of host humor)

(+) Yeah! (+)

yeah so Lea counterclaimed the miller part without ever saying the useful part of her role

Kirby321 posted...

Ulti and I can confirm ourselves off of Lopen. We can't do the same with Ctes.

You can, it's just not as simple. But if you visit whoever I watch over, you will be told you have been watched.

I know I said my upgrade is poison and you might fear that, but I have 200G because as you say I haven't been on the right lynched. It's potentially very good but can also backfire hard. If I'm scum and know I can get extra kill through my upgrade why have I not voted for the scum lynched?

Also, my mistake. I didn't see the part where Lopen used both of his charges.

I get the feeling if Han were still alive, he'd lynch Lopen without hesitation.

Han is wincing in dead town chat thinking you'd lynch me, the guy he was calling town, over Ctes here.

ctesjbuvf posted...

You can, it's just not as simple. But if you visit whoever I watch over, you will be told you have been watched.

I know I said my upgrade is poison and you might fear that, but I have 200G because as you say I haven't been on the right lynched. It's potentially very good but can also backfire hard. If I'm scum and know I can get extra kill through my upgrade why have I not voted for the scum lynched?

You and Ulti can't visit the same person. No way in hell would scum let you live if you're actually Town Watcher, and unless you can watch yourself, Ulti is the only way you can stay alive. At most, you can confirm me and (to some extent) Poppy.

But you bring up a fair point about the upgrade. I feel like after the first day, scum would be way more interested in lynching their own dead-to-rights mates for extra gold.

changmas posted...

yeah so Lea counterclaimed the miller part without ever saying the useful part of her role

No way that doesn't happen if a third one claims.

Stop acting like the situation would be the same with two or three claimed millers, it's terrible.

Kirby321 posted...

I get the feeling if Han were still alive, he'd lynch Lopen without hesitation.

Hopefully, because Han is good. Poppy, this is why he gets killed despite not likely being important.

Lopen posted...

Han is wincing in dead town chat thinking you'd lynch me, the guy he was calling town, over Ctes here.

He was calling me town too.

Kirby321 posted...

You and Ulti can't visit the same person. No way in hell would scum let you live if you're actually Town Watcher, and unless you can watch yourself, Ulti is the only way you can stay alive. At most, you can confirm me and (to some extent) Poppy.

Right, that's true. I am not told specifically if I can watch myself, but I can visit a living player so I don't see why not.

Lopen posted...

Han is wincing in dead town chat thinking you'd lynch me, the guy he was calling town, over Ctes here.

He was willing to lynch you over that whole "beg like a dog" debacle :P

But is no one else a tad bit bothered how perfect Lopen's claim is? Like, logically, there's no flaws with it. And that's a little strange to me.

Ugh, you two are not making this day easy!

It's inconsequential who we lynch in the end, really, but it'd be very nice to be 3/3.

Kirby, Kirby, Kirby. you were supposed to hold the line and not make me have to do this.

but fine if i have to bury ctes 6 feet under then so be it.

My Agh's shard upgrade, which I have to spend 3 days and 2 successful lynches' worth of income on, is to become a ninja watcher.

there is no fucking SHOT this guy started the game with roughly the same power I have to spend 500 gold on. absolutely zero chance.

no more waffling. we wait for mzero to claim and the new shop to drop and we end the day.

... Welp, that settles it.

I'm sorry I ever doubted you, chang.

Chang looks so stupid if town here, but as scum he'd also know I'm town. Hm.

chang.

I'm not doubting you.

but have you considered all possible worlds where you can both exist and lopen is scum?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Chang looks so stupid if town here, but as scum he'd also know I'm town. Hm.

Yeah bullshit.

You do not even remotely consider that chang is town if three Millers being impossible is your hill to die on. There is absolutely no way two town-sided Watchers is a thing is three Miller is so unrealistic.

in the 0.001% chance that happens we just kill lopen tomorrow. who cares.

Or we kill chang

(Just kidding)

but truly in my heart of hearts i do not believe this game could be balanced such that i start as a vanilla and have to buy watcher for 5 days worth of passive income meanwhile someone else starts the game that way.

especially when everyone else's powers are similarly useless from the start, except for him (and maybe ulti).

protect lopen, i'm banana'd up so anyone who visits me is rb'd

Kirby321 posted...

It's inconsequential who we lynch in the end, really, but it'd be very nice to be 3/3.

If you think so, you lose the worse role.

changmas posted...

My Agh's shard upgrade, which I have to spend 3 days and 2 successful lynches' worth of income on, is to become a ninja watcher.

Oh, okay, I don't think chang says this if it's not true and that does make him look less stupid.

Well, in this crazy setup you get to be a ninja and also I assume not have people tell you you they have been watched.

So getting an actually useful role is balanced out by possibly being counterclaimed by 2-3 people. I doubt both Kirby and chang is lying at least. That's rough.

To whoever is still town in this mess of a setup, I advice to setup meta much less in the future than we have done so far, I'm also to blame for this. You were all doing to so good when you just based everything on interactions with each other.

Kirby321 posted...

Yeah bullshit.

You do not even remotely consider that chang is town if three Millers being impossible is your hill to die on. There is absolutely no way two town-sided Watchers is a thing is three Miller is so unrealistic.

I hadn't seen his latest post yet when he said that, jeez.

changmas posted...

but truly in my heart of hearts i do not believe this game could be balanced such that i start as a vanilla and have to buy watcher for 5 days worth of passive income meanwhile someone else starts the game that way.

especially when everyone else's powers are similarly useless from the start, except for him (and maybe ulti).

This line of thinking what should and should not be possible has put me in a situation where I appear to die despite being the best role in the game. You have to consider the nerfs made to my role to compensate that I do start with it.

Also your argument is a bit stupid because in a normal game you'd forever be a vanilla and I'd forever be a standard watcher. Game has never been about balancing people on the same team lol. Some roles are always better than others.

Like, if you're town chang, I take some insults back, but complaining and refusing to believe that you'd not have gotten as good a role as someone else in mafia is ridiculous.

Kirby321 posted... I don't think it's that complicated.

Hb was a role thief. His ability tells scum who has what role. It's similar to role cop in that sense.

Hb was screwed anyway on D2, so it makes sense to use Death's stolen ability to save himself and get one more scan on N2.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but from what I've noticed in previous games, dead scum can still interact with their teammates in these games. I'm 90% sure that's not how it works in Epic Mafia, so it's worth mentioning because that means Hb can still relay his scan info to his living teammates. And that is the reason I believe Hb tried to delay his death.

ok no that is not at all typical in my experience lol

have seen that people have claimed but am still catching up

If we kill Ctes and he's town, we lose one Watcher and get another one.

I don't see a problem here.

You'd have two believe two watchers couldn't co-exist despite being pretty different and despite one not being available right away. Which I don't think is unreasonable at all.

One role being better than another is not an argument you make for scumhunting.

Kirby321 posted...

If we kill Ctes and he's town, we lose one Watcher and get another one.

I don't see a problem here.

Unless they stun chang and shoot him.

But sure, it helps.

You should all not setup meta this. That's the lesson to learn now I think. I apologize having done the same. You should look at the first two days and think what's town and what's not. Not what is good play and what is not, but what is townplay and what is not. You also all know that Lopen has way more experience than me.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Not the same exact one.

It's not the exact same one. He gets to be a better version of watcher than me.

All right ctes

Without using setup meta, who is scum?

Can't say Lopen because using his role claim against him is setup meta

... No but seriously, who do you think is scum?

Lopen asked me to check my pm if I was a ninja watcher and I thought that was really weird.

Sbell probably Rosh the more I think about it claiming his actual passive of not being able to use items

But we should stop doing setup meta, completely. This game is way off on that. It's very apparent that Lopen and I cannot both tell the truth though, that's different.

Everyone should look at Lopen and I and consider who looks more towny, which I will remind everyone for good measure is not the same as playing good. Consider why both Lopen and ctes as both town and scum would do what they have done and see if that can draw you to the right conclusion. We have two flipped scum whose posts may be used to help so that's nice. The importance is doing this without setup meta.

I will skip this exercise and begin reading the game as if there are three scum flipped and try to work of off that instead. Hopefully I can do a better job than so far. This will not be before I've slept though, because I've stayed up way longer than intended.

##vote: Lopen

Right. The likely other one I'm way more uncertain of. I really don't think it's Kirby when ignoring setup meta. I still doubt it's SBell. It could be Ulti, but I doubt it and he will resolve himself. Red says less than usual, but I also absolutely can't read him.

Lopen posted... Here's what happened.

You bussed roleblocker when the lynch was between roleblocker and role thief, while claiming role thief was town
You bussed rolethief based on no new information when rolethief was clearly not going to try to win the game for your team

You get negative town points for Hb. Not positive.

this is just actively not true and has been repeatedly debunked

look ctes if youre telling the truth then you just got kinda unlucky and fucked by the host and setup. Happens.

But i will not be changing my vote today as i dont think we can coexist nor you and lopen.

Furthermore at the start of today i was already asking people to look into you so i never had you down as solidly town in the first place and from my reading of the game, i think lopen still looks more town than you.

thats it from me, back to just waiting on the shop update and MZero

But yeah, the right townplay is considering things like these carefully and hold off on your vote until you've given it time to consider. We fortunately have time for that. It's lazy to think "we can just lynch the other one afterward", 1v1 can be beneficial to mafia, you want to make the right call and spend the full day trying to achieve that. If you arrive at the wrong conclusion so be it, but you do try first.

changmas posted...

Furthermore at the start of today i was already asking people to look into you so i never had you down as solidly town in the first place and from my reading of the game, i think lopen still looks more town than you.

This is the only good part of your post probably, but it would be better for you to use your new information and go back.

Ctes being unwilling to name other scum besides Lopen is pretty telling.

"Guys stop setup metaing and look at the interactions between everyone!"

By the end of the day, I expect an answer for who you think is Roshan and who might be Lopen's scummate, if you had to say he had one.

Honestly I think me pushing for mass and having a claim that is strong in mass is all you really need here. The game decisions I've made have made sense for my role. Ctes's don't.

I know we all have 5 second memories but I did basically get Sultan lynched by myself.

It's ironic that ctes is simultaneously trying to argue watching me n1 and n2 while at the same time arguing he's more town looking than me. It's a tough position.

Shame his scummate is already on him though. Ulti you should just be a man and lynch me, die with your brethren.

Kirby321 posted...

Ctes being unwilling to name other scum besides Lopen is pretty telling.

"Guys stop setup metaing and look at the interactions between everyone!"

By the end of the day, I expect an answer for who you think is Roshan and who might be Lopen's scummate, if you had to say he had one.

I will give you my best guess if you let me live past my sleep. As I've done several times already.

You have my guarantee that I will not hammer the lynch until tomorrow.

Lopen posted...

I know we all have 5 second memories but I did basically get Sultan lynched by myself.

It's ironic that ctes is simultaneously trying to argue watching me n1 and n2 while at the same time arguing he's more town looking than me. It's a tough position.

The first paragraph is exactly why I did that lol.

I don't know if I necessarily do, you were a town read of mine until this, but it's the better way to go about it than setup meta.

Lopen posted... I wonder if these roles weren't randomized at all

That would be an interesting twist

"interesting" is one word for it

i'll just say i hope that's not the case and save the rest for postgame

--

how do we have so many miller claims what is this place even

I don't think you need setup meta to suspect you here. You going so hard on Kirby/Lea seems like you gameplanned it as a reason to take no stances on anything else.

The problem here is that town miller who does this I think is claiming miller much earlier. Like I dunno it's easy to say the whole game suspected hb and he was a done deal but if you're that sure of Kirby I think you force that issue yesterday like I tried to do with Poppy

Hell you maybe force it day 1. I liked the case on Sultan obviously but was it really that ironclad? I don't know if I as miller 3 would be so sure.

As I said, I didn't want to risk outting a power role early.

You claim miller and that's it