Board 8 > Board 8, I need career advice (job prospects).

(+) Yeah! (+)

Some of you may recall me posting a few career related topics over the past 2-3 years. I am a part-time lecturer at my local university (I currently work for the Finance Department, but I am much better suited for Accounting since the bulk of my work experience and education is in that field). I've come to love teaching and would gladly stay at my current post forever... if not for the fact that part-time lecturer pay is abysmal. I've sought full-time lecturer positions in several different places, but such opportunities are infrequent and remarkably competitive.

A few months ago, I applied for one such full-time position within the Accounting department at my local community college. Long story short, the interviews went very well and I was informally offered the job today (via voice mail only, no offer letter yet). This great news is also my dilemma.

Last week, as I was prepping for my final interview with the community college, I got a surprise phone call from the Chair of the Finance Department at my university - my boss. He knew that I was interviewing with the community college (I listed him as one of my references), but he wanted to inform me that just an hour prior, one of the professors at the university's Accounting department walked into his office, told him that the Accounting department would soon be hiring for a full-time lecturer, and that I was apparently being scouted as one of the top candidates.

This was amazing news, but the timing is very difficult for me. I now have a job offer from the community college, and while they haven't asked for a decision yet, there's no way I can stall long enough to actually apply for the university position and see it through (the uni job hasn't even been posted yet). In a dream scenario where I had my pick of the two, I would pick the university job in a heartbeat - it's far superior. But that's the job that I don't have yet, and that's the one that will probably be a gauntlet to get. I've explained the timing to one of the university professors within the accounting department, and while he understood my situation and reiterated that I'd have a great shot to get the uni job, there are no guarantees, and they've gotta administer their application process by the book (it'd likely take at least a month).

Both the university and community college have the same start date - Fall 2022 (probably mid-August). At the moment, I feel like I have three semi-plausible options.

Option 1
I reject the community college job with the hope that I am the top candidate for the uni position. While this is "semi-plausible" in the sense that yeah, it's an option, it's also the stupidest option, and anytime I consider it for more than a moment, I feel like a huge sucker. It's taken me almost three years to get a single full-time job offer.

Option 2
I accept the community college offer and fully commit to it, which means ignoring the university position since I would have already accepted a job elsewhere. This is the most ethically virtuous, but it would probably leave me regretful since the university position is pretty much my dream job.

Option 3
I accept the community college offer but apply to the university position anyway. If I am selected by the uni, I reneg on my community college acceptance, effectively burning my bridge with the cc. This has to be the most ethically murky option, but it's probably the one I'll wind up choosing. I can't turn down the only full-time teaching position I've secured in three years, but I feel like I'll also have a difficult time living with myself if I choose not to try my hand at the university job.

What would you guys do? Essentially, I've typed up an essay in the hopes of getting some reassurance that choosing Option 3 *doesn't* immediately paint me as some huge asshole... but who knows! Maybe it does.

How frank can you be with your current boss at the University?

Id tell him your dilemma and get his professional opinion on option 3, hopefully he understands that its the smartest play for you, or else maybe as the chair he can just get you in there?

A tricky situation to be sure... but it feels like since neither job starts until the end of the Summer, you should have just enough leeway to pursue Option 3 without it being toooooo much of an ethical concern.

Option 3 sounds like the play. The community college is also a highly sought after position, right? If so, it will be filled easily even if you turn it down after signing on.

Option 3.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

How frank can you be with your current boss at the University?

Frank enough that I'd be able to ask him about Option 3, yeah. Despite his position, he can't really get me "in" anywhere, but I wasn't expecting or hoping for that. I'm mainly just hoping that pursuing Option 3 doesn't label me as a dishonorable person among academics in my city, since the word will probably spread.

Ngamer64 posted...

A tricky situation to be sure... but it feels like since neither job starts until the end of the Summer, you should have just enough leeway to pursue Option 3 without it being toooooo much of an ethical concern.

I feel the same way. At least I wouldn't be doing any of this a week before the start date.

Team Rocket Elite posted...

The community college is also a highly sought after position, right?

Likely so, but not nearly as desired as the university job (starting pay would be like 40% more than the cc for less work).

Option 3 is in your best interest

Option 3, easily.

Especially given the time before the start date.

My brother is a lecturer too, and he's been part of the hiring process there before. Even he says to go for option 3. Like, he said he'd be angry if someone he hired quit right away like that, but ultimately he couldn't do anything about it and he'd understand you were looking out for your best interests

3 obviously. Not murky at all, especially if the job doesn't start until fall. They won't even notice you renegging. Most education positions get filled like <1 month before the semester starts, based on what my teacher friends tell me.

But even if the first job started now and you ditched in 1 month, it's not that big a deal. You would explain the situation to your boss and give them a chance to retain you. Pretty fair.

Option 3 for sure

I would have had ethical concerns a few years ago, but I got laid off 3 months into a job I moved accross the country for once. Now I just look out for myself

Option 3, no doubt.

Like everyone else said option 3 and dont feel bad

All employers look out for themselves first. You should do the same.

Option 3, it's only business. If the offer is better then the offer is better.

Option 3. It's not even murky. If you get the lecturer job, they will totally understand. People accept counter offers all the time.

CaptainOfCrush posted...

It's taken me almost three years to get a single full-time job offer.

Just noticed this too - this is kind of a fallacy. It's taken you 3 years to get to the point where you can get full-time job offers regularly. That's why you have 2 in your lap right now. It won't take you 3 more years to get another.

Option 2

I'm a full time lecturer also and think this is the way to go. Keep in mind that full-time lecturer jobs are usually 3 year contracts anyway, so in three years you could re-evaluate. But you're right, the job market is so competitive now you should basically take what you have.

Also, everyone is saying Option 3, which makes sense up until the "reneg" part. You really shouldn't sign a contract and then break it. If you accept the position with the CC, they'll expect you to sign a contract soon. Once you sign that document, it is extremely bad form to not take it or take a different position. I think Academia is slightly different from other jobs in this way.

You could apply for the uni job now to set the groundwork for applying later, but I think you might as well just take the guaranteed full-time gig.

your current school will screw you over. don't take option A (but you already knew that)

accept the community college job offer, and do what you can to rush your college into fast-tracking you. if they actually want to hire you, they will. hard rules like "oh, we can't do it that fast" magically evaporate when the people in charge want something

the specifics of how to "play the game"- how you approach your boss to get them to convince the people in charge to get their shit together and hire you within 1 month- is a whole other subject matter

they say it'll take more than a month because it's hard to get the various faculty and administration ducks in a row, but they can do it if they're motivated and you are beloved

i wouldn't put up with the interview process if it felt like they were dragging their feet

foolm0r0n posted...

Just noticed this too - this is kind of a fallacy. It's taken you 3 years to get to the point where you can get full-time job offers regularly. That's why you have 2 in your lap right now. It won't take you 3 more years to get another.

Thanks, I hope (and honestly think) you're right. I did recently receive a teaching award that's given to 4-5 part timers a year. It seems to have raised my stock somewhat and may be partly responsible for this sudden surge of good fortune.

colliding posted...

Keep in mind that full-time lecturer jobs are usually 3 year contracts anyway, so in three years you could re-evaluate.

That's generally true, but the community college position actually allows for academic tenure after five years. That's the one major advantage it has over the university job (that and free parking lol). The university job would be a three year contract with no chance of tenure, but that's still far more security than an average gig. In the nine years that I've kept up with this school, I've never heard of a lecturer losing their job. For what it's worth, here are the advantages of the uni position:

+ Significantly higher pay (approx. 40%)
+ Probably less workload overall (four courses taught per semester vs five with the cc)
+ Better commute
+ I'm already familiar with and really like the school/faculty/community

colliding posted...

Also, everyone is saying Option 3, which makes sense up until the "reneg" part. You really shouldn't sign a contract and then break it. If you accept the position with the CC, they'll expect you to sign a contract soon. Once you sign that document, it is extremely bad form to not take it or take a different position. I think Academia is slightly different from other jobs in this way.

Thank you for the valuable input. I chatted with my favorite prof today (one who's essentially served as my advisor throughout grad school and parts of my professional/academic career). She basically supported Option 3 while also advocating for more transparency than I had considered - rather than accept the community college position outright, she encouraged me to call the cc chair and tell him that I'm currently in the application/interview process for other positions (without divulging too much info) and would like to wait on those final results before making a decision.

This was the common practice when she was getting her PhD and juggling different opportunities/timelines. Since neither position is set to start until mid-August, I wouldn't be putting the community college in much of a time-bind. While it's likely that they'll play hardball and try to squeeze me into a quick decision, I find it very unlikely that they'll rescind my offer outright if I'm honest with them at the onset.

Yeah a 5/5 is extremely sucky for sure, so I don't blame you for wanting the uni gig. the extra pay is huge too. I still say option 2 though.

First, the 5 years and tenure possibility thing is tempting. I believe, like many others, that academia is in the beginning / facing the cusp of an enrollment crisis all over, and the days of "no lecturer has ever been fired / not reappointed in the past" shouldn't be taken as gospel anymore. New lecturers are first on the chopping block, even above part-timers and adjuncts, due to the fact that they actually have to pay us a living wage/provide benefits. A CC gig w/tenure might be preferable territory if the crisis does in fact get worse.

As for the time-bind/not starting until August thing: maybe our school is unique, but there has to actually be an official "job call" for the university lecturer right? meaning they have to advertise it and field applications? I think it will be doubtful that the CC would keep you in pocket for long enough for the job search to proceed. Usually if a part-timer is brought in as a full-timer it's for a temporary position.

Anyway, just don't sign a contract with the CC unless you definitely plan to take the position; that's really all I'm saying.

colliding posted...

but there has to actually be an official "job call" for the university lecturer right? meaning they have to advertise it and field applications?

Yeah, there almost certainly will be.

Anyway, no major updates: the university position still hasn't been posted, and I still haven't been emailer an official offer from the cc (though the cc accounting chair did call me to confirm that I will be receiving an offer). Just want to keep this bumped for updates.

No updates. Academia is glacially slow.

Thr university job was finally posted today; I applied immediately.

I still haven't received an official offer letter from the community college. A friend who works there apologized on behalf of HR and I said no rush lol

good luck man.

Sounds like everything's comin' up yo.