Current Events > 72% of American support some form of UBI (Universal Basic Income)

(+) Yeah! (+)

My guess is that 28% that do not are rich and would be buttmad that they bleed forced workers.

https://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/news/universal-basic-income-survey/

Key findings
At least 7 in 10 Americans support some form of universal basic income, with 35% definitely favoring the policy and 38% supporting it under certain conditions (i.e., income, citizenship and employment). Support for UBI in some form significantly decreases among high earners, men and Republicans.
Among those not in favor of UBI, the No. 1 reason is a fear that the policy would remove the incentive to work (noted by 68% of opponents), followed by the possibility of higher taxes (53%). Those supportive of UBI largely believe in its ability to lift people out of poverty (60%).
The same percentage (72%) of those who support UBI believe we should guarantee that all Americans have enough money to afford basic needs like food and shelter. However, the majority of consumers think UBI shouldnt go to every adult in the U.S., but rather citizens and/or those below a certain income threshold (both 43%).
22% of Americans say they need UBI to make ends meet, and this figure climbs even higher among women (25%) and parents with children younger than 18 (28%). 2 in 3 respondents say theyd spend a hypothetical UBI on living costs and other necessities.

Democrats: 88% support, 12% dont
Republicans: 53% support, 47% dont
Independents: 72% support, 28% dont

Less than $35,000: 76% support, 24% dont
$35,000-$49,999: 75% support, 25% dont
$50,000-$74,999: 72% support, 28% dont
$75,000-$99,999: 75% support, 25% dont
$100,000 or more: 64% support, 36% dont

Men: 69% support, 31% dont
Women: 74% support, 26% dont

Gen Zers (ages 18 to 24): 83% support, 17% dont
Millennials (ages 25 to 40): 81% support, 19% dont
Gen Xers (ages 41 to 55): 71% support, 29% dont
Baby boomers (ages 56 to 75): 58% support, 43% dont

Supporters of UBI appear to believe in the positive outcomes that inspire the idea in the first place. It seems supporters have faith in the policys ability to lift people out of poverty, provide economic stability and give people financial security. Heres a full breakdown:
Lifts people out of poverty: 60%
Provides economic stability: 53%
Gives more people financial security: 51%
Ensures children will be taken care of: 45%
Supports parents or caregivers unable to work: 44%
Reduces income inequality: 36%
Its the right thing to do: 30%
Offers a security net to those whose jobs may be lost due to increased automation: 30%
It would really help their personal situation: 26%
Allows workers more choice in the types of jobs they take: 18%
Increases entrepreneurship and innovation: 15%
Other reason: 5%
Those who oppose UBI in any form feel strongly about people working for a living, with 68% of nonsupporters saying that UBI removes the incentive to work. Additionally, a large share of respondents assumes UBI will be too costly and lead to higher taxes.

Gen Zers (ages 18 to 24): 83% support, 17% dont
Millennials (ages 25 to 40): 81% support, 19% dont
Gen Xers (ages 41 to 55): 71% support, 29% dont
Baby boomers (ages 56 to 75): 58% support, 43% dont

Baby boomers (ages 56 to 75): 58% support, 43% dont

womp womp womppp

WingsOfGood posted...

My guess is that 28% that do not are rich and would be buttmad that they bleed forced workers.

That's a biased take. You could also say 72% are lazy and just want a handout.

Does this mean that I can quit my job and laze around?

NightingaleMD posted...

That's a biased take. You could also say 72% are lazy and just want a handout.

I would actually worker harder if I had UBI than I do on my job that pays me well.

This is because UBI would allow me to pursue interests like writing which doesn't have a instant payoff and might take some time to figure out how to do well.

Meanwhile, sitting on my butt at my IT job which affords me to post here during workhours gives me instant payoff and financial security. It doesn't however help me innovate beyond providing some sort of value to shareholders who themselves are not innovative either.

@NightingaleMD
What do YOU do for a living may I ask?

Too bad it's not about what the people want, but what the rich want and they want us as weak and downtrodden and desperate as possible so sadly, the government won't do it.

Just 14% of all consumers think the payments should go to every adult living in the U.S. if the government implemented UBI.

Don't call it UBI if your position is "More money for me, yes, but not for everyone, and only if I'm not paying for any of it."

That isn't UBI. That's just welfare, and it creates the same welfare trap where there's an income threshold where you risk making LESS with higher pay because you lose all your low income benefits.

EDIT: To qualify that "only if I'm not paying for it" comment. past studies have shown that support for UBI drops dramatically if people are told they might have higher taxes to pay for it:
https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/half-of-us-would-support-universal-basic-income-but-support-drops-if-benefits-are-cut-or-taxes-rise/

However, when individuals were asked to consider UBI funded through increased taxation, support dropped to 30%, with 40% opposed. When they were asked to consider UBI funded through cuts in welfare benefits spending, support dropped to 37%, with 30% opposed.

WingsOfGood posted...

I would actually worker harder if I had UBI than I do on my job that pays me well.

@NightingaleMD
What do YOU do for a living may I ask?

Your first statement is incorrect. Perhaps it's correct for you, but welfare systems again and again have shown at least in American more money = less likely to work. That's why Ohio had to repeal the covid bonus to welfare because too many people left the workforce and wouldn't rejoin unless the money was taken away. They did NOT spend the year of it..."innovating."

I'm an emergency doctor. I have the most intricate, firsthand knowledge of how the most poor live. I also see rampant medicaid/medicare abuse like you would never believe. Like most EM docs, I entered medical school a democrat and left residency a republican after being exposed to reality.

It's interesting you mention writing as an explicit example. I am also a published author. I do this in my spare time and it accounts for about 25% of my annual income.

That statement alone says a lot about you. I worked 80 hours a week in residency and still found time to write. If you cannot find time to write "because of your job," I'm sorry, but you're just lazy.

NightingaleMD posted...

Your first statement is incorrect. Perhaps it's correct for you, but welfare systems again and again have shown at least in American more money = less likely to work.

Gonna need a source on that one that's not your ass

It makes sense to me.

There's so many benefits and welfare systems and confusion out there

There's so many people who can't afford rent or go to collegue or put the heating on.

Universial Income or whatever you want to call it just sounds like it would cost LESS in tax than we spend on Welfare and costs that occur from crime and homelessness.

And would be a moral and pragmatic gain.

I'm not an economist but I don't really see the argument against it?

I mean I DO Get the logic of "IF everyone gets $800 a month then after a few years the cost of living will rise by $750 a month." Which is true

But how is that different than what's happening now? Inflation has been a thing for a long time and that's more to do with the failures of America's right wing government to have a healthy economy.

Gwynevere posted...

Gonna need a source on that one that's not your ass

i believe him I work in IT and during the first year of the pandemic. Many people told me they were making more money from unemployment than they ever then at their job. So they would apply to jobs, but they made it look bad so they werent get called for an interview or if they did get the call

thwy would never show up

I like how people are worried about more taxes with UBI. Like you can't end up with less money right?

Biofighter55 posted...

i believe him

"Dude trust me" doesn't sound like very solid evidence

UnfairRepresent posted...

It makes sense to me.

There's so many benefits and welfare systems and confusion out there

There's so many people who can't afford rent or go to collegue or put the heating on.

Universial Income or whatever you want to call it just sounds like it would cost LESS in tax than we spend on Welfare and costs that occur from crime and homelessness.

And would be a moral and pragmatic gain.

I'm not an economist but I don't really see the argument against it?

I mean I DO Get the logic of "IF everyone gets $800 a month then after a few years the cost of living will rise by $750 a month." Which is true

But how is that different than what's happening now? Inflation has been a thing for a long time and that's more to do with the failures of America's right wing government to have a healthy economy.

Ive got a couple of raise because our company is doing well but because of inflation, I dont feel like Im making more. My life style is more or less the same.

the price of groceries is terrible since thats were most of it goes and than some in savings

Gwynevere posted...

"Dude trust me" doesn't sound like very solid evidence

i like how you cut out my explanation of why I believe him but whatever

Gwynevere posted...

"Dude trust me" doesn't sound like very solid evidence

No one is stopping you from using google

This took four seconds

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/portman-difference/expanded-unemployment-benefits-continue-undermine-hiring-ohio-0

It's not a primary source, but a link to like 20 primary sources from news all over the state

EDIT: I don't even know why I'm engaging on this part, this isn't even controversial among dems or GOP. It's just you choosing not to believe it. Won't engage further.

If only 70ish% of our leaders supported it.

NightingaleMD posted...

That's why Ohio had to repeal the covid bonus to welfare because too many people left the workforce and wouldn't rejoin unless the money was taken away

This is a lie. It has been proven that these bonuses are not why people left nor did they rejoin after the idiot republicans removed the bonuses.

NightingaleMD posted...

I'm an emergency doctor. I have the most intricate, firsthand knowledge of how the most poor live. I also see rampant medicaid/medicare abuse like you would never believe. Like most EM docs, I entered medical school a democrat and left residency a republican after being exposed to reality.

As in, poor people who are overcharged for ER are desperate to not go into debt for life? This has made you into a republican?

NightingaleMD posted...

It's interesting you mention writing as an explicit example. I am also a published author. I do this in my spare time and it accounts for about 25% of my annual income.

That statement alone says a lot about you. I worked 80 hours a week in residency and still found time to write. If you cannot find time to write "because of your job," I'm sorry, but you're just lazy.

What do you write about?

Fyi, there is 168 hours in a week. To be healthy you should have 8 hours of sleep.
So there is actually 112 hours in a week.

You worked 80 hours, so there is only 32 hours left. But then, if you are healthy person, you still need at least 1 hour a day to get food\cook it, and an hour for exercise.
32 - 7 = 25 and lets say you don't workout everyday, maybe 3 times a week.
22 hours left.

So you basically did nothing but write? No family, friends, girlfriend, hobbies?

This is also not counting you likely had to spend 1-2 hours to commute back and forth for work and other things like having to poop.

@NightingaleMD

As in, poor people who are overcharged for ER are desperate to not go into debt for life? This has made you into a republican?

People on medicaid Don't pay a bill. My taxes pay their bill. ~I~ pay for every ED visit from the poor. If you have a job, so do you.

What do you write about?

Fyi, there is 168 hours in a week. To be healthy you should have 8 hours of sleep.
So there is actually 112 hours in a week.

Try telling that to residency committees. LOL, 8 hours of sleep. This guy....

Also, cannot talk about my writings. I am totally anonymous online. I'm not a major author (if I were, I wouldn't work) but I'm known enough to find myself on a bookshelf.

You worked 80 hours, so there is only 32 hours left. But then, if you are healthy person, you still need at least 1 hour a day to get food\cook it, and an hour for exercise.
32 - 7 = 25 and lets say you don't workout everyday, maybe 3 times a week.
22 hours left.

So you basically did nothing but write? No family, friends, girlfriend, hobbies?

Someone else who did a medical residency would have to comment here. It's hard to describe how to live through it to someone that never did it. Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later.

KainWind posted...

I like how people are worried about more taxes with UBI. Like you can't end up with less money right?

A lot of people straight up dont understand that tax brackets are progressive.
Also both political parties are dedicated to pushing the idea that benefits shouldnt go to the undeserving.

where money

UBI either means a basket or a place to live

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/4/AAZV24AABSnu.jpg

I like the idea of UBI from a worker empowerment perspective, and putting to rest the idea that private companies should be relieving the government of their obligation to their citizens' welfare

On the other hand, i hate the possibility that we end up with a million delusional talentless "artists"

Should be a cushion to help with savings/time between jobs, not a ticket to early retirement

NightingaleMD posted...

No one is stopping you from using google

This took four seconds

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/portman-difference/expanded-unemployment-benefits-continue-undermine-hiring-ohio-0

It's not a primary source, but a link to like 20 primary sources from news all over the state

EDIT: I don't even know why I'm engaging on this part, this isn't even controversial among dems or GOP. It's just you choosing not to believe it. Won't engage further.

That link offers nothing to suggest that people were quitting just to collect unemployment benefits. It doesn't even acknowledge the fact that working conditions in the pandemic were horrid, compounding frustrations of wages stagnating for decades

You can't just make the claim that welfare itself is what discourages work, without taking everything else that may factor into that decision into consideration

KainWind posted...

I like how people are worried about more taxes with UBI. Like you can't end up with less money right?

If no one is paying more into ubi than they get out, how is it funded...? (Corporate taxes still come out of someone's wallet at the end of the day)

Biofighter55 posted...

Ive got a couple of raise because our company is doing well but because of inflation, I dont feel like Im making more. My life style is more or less the same.

the price of groceries is terrible since thats were most of it goes and than some in savings

Now imagine that situation but you haven't got a raise, let alone 2 or more.

Now you're in the boat of half of Americans

giving $1000 each to three tenants is functionally giving $3000 to their landlord. that's why I do not support UBI

NightingaleMD posted...

Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later.

This dude says this and still doesnt get why thats an issue lol.

And we shouldnt use welfare as comparison. Welfare has a blatant cap where if you dont make a large enough jump in income, youd do worse by increasing income, since you lose benefits.

Gwynevere posted...

That link offers nothing to suggest that people were quitting just to collect unemployment benefits. It doesn't even acknowledge the fact that working conditions in the pandemic were horrid, compounding frustrations of wages stagnating for decades

You can't just make the claim that welfare itself is what discourages work, without taking everything else that may factor into that decision into consideration

As a person who grew up around a lot of welfare abuse, it's always been that the second you start working you lose food stamps, medicaid, housing assistance. So hustling under the table plus collecting welfare is the most advantageous position you can take. Especially when entry-level jobs essentially cause you to make less money and create more stress than the welfare/hustle combo.

I always thought you could just expand assistance and even incentivize working without the threat of losing your security. Only taking it away once you reach an actual comfortable income level.

g980 posted...

Should be a cushion to help with savings/time between jobs, not a ticket to early retirement

That is infact what UBI is though....

We sure do get a lot of doctors, lawyers, and other high paying occupations here on CE. I bet they drive Ferraris, have 10" dongs, and date supermodels too.

It's also funny how certain folks get more mad at people abusing welfare than the rich abusing tax loopholes and other laws.

NightingaleMD posted...

People on medicaid Don't pay a bill. My taxes pay their bill. ~I~ pay for every ED visit from the poor. If you have a job, so do you.

If they are poor, isn't that the point of medicaid?

NightingaleMD posted...

Someone else who did a medical residency would have to comment here. It's hard to describe how to live through it to someone that never did it. Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later.

So you want this to be the default meaning of not lazy? To barely be able to sleep?

And I still don't get your point. Professional writers say you should write 8 hours a day to be really good. You believe you are on their level with just a few hours and cranking out 2000 words?
It is like you didn't quite understand what I was saying but just wanted to call me lazy.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No one will want to work at his business underpaid.
You are right that fewer people working means the value of each job goes up.
This is exactly why the rich hate this idea so much.
Their interest lies in paying you as little as possible or they will not make as much profit.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

This dude says this and still doesnt get why thats an issue lol.

Well it seems he may be bitter about having to have worked 80 hours a week. So why should other people be able to be successful working less hours?
Kinda a funny irony there.

WingsOfGood posted...

Baby boomers (ages 56 to 75): 58% support, 43% dont

^ Notice how the correlation with this age group and not supporting these kind of measures, is even stronger than the correlation with high income?

Im all for it. The government can not be trusted with our money.

honestly, though? who cares what old people think?

just because they lived in a world that wanted them to fail doesn't mean we need to continue that tradition for any specific reason

g980 posted...

Should be a cushion to help with savings/time between jobs, not a ticket to early retirement

To explain some more what I mean above that this is exactly what UBI is.

The point of UBI is to cover BASIC needs to not die.
Will you be able to buy a car with UBI? No.
Will you get a fancy place to live? No.
Can you eat at a fancy steakhouse with UBI alot? No.

Will it help you pay for rent and food? Yes.
Will it help you cover medical costs? Yes.

So, most people will infact still work jobs, even flipping burgers at McDonalds. Infact, more people might fill low wage jobs since they can afford to live while being at them.
More people can go to college since they won't have to kill themselves as much working multiple jobs to pay for it (unless greedy universities raise prices more).

Why? Because most people don't want just the lowest standard economy apartment as their standard of living.

Will there be male neets who are ok with that and just playing video games all day? Probably, but also most likely not anymore then than there is now.

MrDrMan posted...

Im all for it. The government can not be trusted with our money.

B-b-b-b-but!
Better to give that money to the MILITARY than to NEETS!!!!!!

NightingaleMD posted...

I'm an emergency doctor. I have the most intricate, firsthand knowledge of how the most poor live. I also see rampant medicaid/medicare abuse like you would never believe. Like most EM docs, I entered medical school a democrat and left residency a republican after being exposed to reality.

Poor people trying to not get screwed by our medical system doesn't seem that bad to me, maybe I'm missing something? If anything this highlights the flaws in our healthcare system.

Also, to say this

NightingaleMD posted...

If you cannot find time to write "because of your job," I'm sorry, but you're just lazy.

And follow up with this

NightingaleMD posted...

Someone else who did a medical residency would have to comment here. It's hard to describe how to live through it to someone that never did it. Yes, I still exercised. I just barely slept. I could still crank out 2,000 words on days I wanted to write. In fact I'm going to the gym now and when I get back I'll be writing until I go to work later.

Seems a bit contradictory. If you aren't pushing yourself to the point of barely sleeping you are lazy? Is this a "I did it so anyone else who doesn't just isn't trying" argument? People are different, if every person was cut out to be a doctor then we'd all be doctors.

totalnerdken posted...

What's wrong with that though. If they can live off UBI, then let them live as a talentless artist.

Because of this, fewer people will be working, meaning the value of each job goes up, thus forcing employers to pay more to keep people.

Fuck it, let people be lazy. Let people keep trying their shitty art. I see no issues with any of this.

Because we need people to work in order to have things to spend money on

Increasing the demand for labor is good, but i dont want to shoot past the sweet spot to where you cant find anyone to fix your toilet because no one dreams of being a plumber

WingsOfGood posted...

To explain some more what I mean above that this is exactly what UBI is.

The point of UBI is to cover BASIC needs to not die.
Will you be able to buy a car with UBI? No.
Will you get a fancy place to live? No.
Can you eat at a fancy steakhouse with UBI alot? No.

Will it help you pay for rent and food? Yes.
Will it help you cover medical costs? Yes.

So, most people will infact still work jobs, even flipping burgers at McDonalds. Infact, more people might fill low wage jobs since they can afford to live while being at them.
More people can go to college since they won't have to kill themselves as much working multiple jobs to pay for it (unless greedy universities raise prices more).

Why? Because most people don't want just the lowest standard economy apartment as their standard of living.

Will there be male neets who are ok with that and just playing video games all day? Probably, but also most likely not anymore then than there is now.

Yea man i get you
this is something we probably 90% agree on

EITC basically is already. Wouldn't take much to expand it into an actual UBI.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Do you think employers want to do these things though? :D

Just more evidence that the U.S. isn't a democracy

WingsOfGood posted...

If they are poor, isn't that the point of medicaid?

My point is you're complaining about them paying bills. They aren't paying for anything. They can come and go as they please in the emergency department and rack up tremendous costs to the state and federal government. They often come here for things I'd never even go to my regular doctor for. It's horrid abuse.

So you want this to be the default meaning of not lazy? To barely be able to sleep?

Elon musk has an excellent quote about this. Something to the effect of "no one ever accomplished anything on a 40 hour work week." It's true.

And I still don't get your point. Professional writers say you should write 8 hours a day to be really good. You believe you are on their level with just a few hours and cranking out 2000 words?
It is like you didn't quite understand what I was saying but just wanted to call me lazy.

That probably applies to full, professional writers. I don't accept advances for due dates because I'm not a "professional writer," insofar as it's not my full time job. Like I said, it's a quarter of my total income. I'm a full time doctor by profession. So yes, 2,000 words every day or few days is enough for me. If I were a fulltime writer then no, that would be quite lazy :P

Anyway, my point is don't hide behind your job as a reason to not be writing. Rowling wrote her first book homeless. My idol Stephen King wrote carrie as a high school teacher. Very few people start as "full time writers." If you've got a good idea in your head, write it down! Don't hide behind work as a reason to delay. If you can't write right now, you won't be able to write fulltime, I promise.

NightingaleMD posted...

"no one ever accomplished anything on a 40 hour work week." It's true.

Yikes.

At least youre consistent lol.