Current Events > Did Americans fight in Africa in World War 2?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Or after Pearl Harbour did they all just go and fight in and near Japan?

Yes they assisted a year or so after joining the war iirc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_campaign

We fought in the Sahara. They made a movie out of it starring Humphrey Bogart. Highly recommended if you're into old war movies.

That was a great classic movie.

Yes, you may have also heard of this little known place called Europe that they also fought in.

yes ryan gosling was there

They also left the Vichy French administration firmly in place after they struck a deal with Admiral Darlan that allowed them to land unopposed by Vichy forces, let them station troops in North Africa, and guaranteed them safe passage. Uncle Sam betrayed the Resistance fighters who'd tried to help them, and American GIs stood by and watched as they were dragged away by Vichy police.

They also left the regime's anti-Jewish legislation in place, refused to intervene in pogroms that broke out in North African cities, and made no attempt to stop Jews being carted off to slave camps in the Sahara; not a single detainee in the camps was liberated until ten months after the Allied landings, and then only by the Free French, not by the Americans.

given how poorly american troops fared against rommel in their initial engagements, it honestly bears wondering whether the camapign would have succeeded had they attempted to actually supplant local vichy authorities

the vichy government in france only lasted another year anyway

patton read rommel's book

I refuse to believe this is a serious question

That's what led to women cafe bombers? WWII?

This is such a mindblowingly easy-to-google question that it could only have been asked by Sunhawk

TendoDRM posted...

Yes, you may have also heard of this little known place called Europe that they also fought in.

That might be a little too advanced for TC

No, they had a tea party with the Germans.

Didn't know they didn't do well. Germany was planning a global offensive so there is good reason to put Rommel in Africa...

I believe its pronounced or-durve

Have you not watched Patton?

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Germany was planning a global offensive so there is good reason to put Rommel in Africa...

North Africa does, after all, present a nice, large, open area for Rommel to practice his specialty: disobeying orders and charging way past his supply lines.

I believe Hummers were originally designed for desert warfare in North Africa...

Criminalt posted...

They also left the Vichy French administration firmly in place after they struck a deal with Admiral Darlan that allowed them to land unopposed by Vichy forces, let them station troops in North Africa, and guaranteed them safe passage. Uncle Sam betrayed the Resistance fighters who'd tried to help them, and American GIs stood by and watched as they were dragged away by Vichy police.

They also left the regime's anti-Jewish legislation in place, refused to intervene in pogroms that broke out in North African cities, and made no attempt to stop Jews being carted off to slave camps in the Sahara; not a single detainee in the camps was liberated until ten months after the Allied landings, and then only by the Free French, not by the Americans.

Damn...do you have any sources I can look further into?

UnholyMudcrab posted...

North Africa does, after all, present a nice, large, open area for Rommel to practice his specialty: disobeying orders and charging way past his supply lines.

Ah yes, actually invading Russia IS a challenge

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Ah yes, actually invading Russia IS a challenge

Not a challenge, it's a historically repeatedly proven disaster...

indica posted...

Not a challenge, it's a historically repeatedly proven disaster...

Sounds familiar

The Americans never gave up even after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...

ShineboxPhil posted...

The Americans never gave up even after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...

what?

The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor

UnfairRepresent posted...

what?

The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor

Forget it, he's rolling.

indica posted...

Damn...do you have any sources I can look further into?

@indica : My main source is The Jews of North Africa During the Second World War by Michel Abitbol, published by Wayne State University Press, 1989.

IIRC, it's also touched upon in Among The Righteous: Lost Stories from the Holocaust's Long Reach into Arab Lands by Robert Satloff, published by Public Affairs, 2006.

I'm afraid I don't know of any online sources; I'm still very much a fan of paper. I've posted about this previously in more detail, and this is what I wrote at that time:

Within days of [Operation] Torch, Robert Murphy (appointed by Roosevelt as Eisenhower's adviser on political affairs) had struck a ceasefire agreement with Admiral Francois Darlan, the de facto head of the Vichy administration in North Africa. In exchange for Darlan's maintainance of a ceasefire in Oran and Morocco and his guarantee of free passage for American troops, Eisenhower recognized Darlan's administration as a legitimate one. There was to be no change of government and Allied officials would make no attempt to interfere with its workings. Vichy bureaucrats remained safely in their posts, the regime's anti-Jewish legislation still firmly in place, even while Allied troops were busy garrisoning Morocco and Algeria.

It was to be business as usual, with the routine harassment and persecution of Jews continuing to take place -- only this time, directly under the noses of American soldiers.

The American betrayal of the underground resistance movement in Algiers had tragic consequences. At a meeting in Cherchell on October 23, 1942, Murphy and General Clark had promised representatives of the resistance that the US would supply weapons to help the underground, who would support the Allied landings by carrying out acts of sabotage, intercepting Vichy communications and even detaining Vichy commanders. At the last minute, the Americans reneged on the Cherchell agreement: they delivered none of the promised weapons, no ammunition, no money -- nothing.

Bravely, the resistance went ahead anyway, and launched their insurrection in the early hours of D-Day. They successfully secured strongpoints in Algiers and held them pending the arrival of American troops. What they didn't know was that Murphy was already in negotiation with Darlan, and that the Americans would soon be handing the city over not to the anti-Fascist resistance, but back to the Vichy government.

In the days and weeks following the Allied capture of Algiers, many of the 377 resistance fighters who took part in operations on the night of November 7-8 -- whose actions had paved the way for the Allied landings, and saved the lives of American soldiers -- were rounded up and dragged away by the Vichy police, while by and large the Americans stood by and watched. They were sent to prison or to punishment camps in the Sahara; 315 of the resistance fighters were Jews.

[Cont...]

[... Cont]

When Moroccan Jews rejoiced at the arrival of American and British troops, French prefects closed the gates of Jewish quarters in many cities, effectively jailing an entire population for three weeks. Fascist organizations launched violent attacks against Jews in the mellah of Casablanca only moments after the first parade of American troops had passed by. In the wake of Operation Torch, there were anti-Jewish riots in Rabat and Sale and new discriminatory measures were implemented in Meknes and Fez by the newly US-endorsed Vichy administration. In Beni-Mellal, the controleur civil (the official in charge of civilian control) allowed any European to choose any house he wanted from among properties inhabited by Jews; the inhabitants were then forced to leave their homes within 48 hours under the threat of impressment into forced labour. Jews were thrown into prison or sent to labour camps for the felonious act of receiving an American into their home or waving to a GI on the street.

Ten days after Torch, on November 17, 1942, Roosevelt delivered a broadcast statement, saying he "wanted the abrogation of all laws and decrees inspired by Nazi governments." Powerful words but meaningless ones, because American officials in North Africa deferred to Vichy officials in almost all local matters. Roosevelt may have wanted the abrogation of such laws, but he wasn't going to force things: instead, his policy was to express nave hopes and ask nicely. US officials claimed that because the presence of American troops in Morocco and Algeria did not officially constitute an occupation, they were powerless to intervene. Meanwhile, as late as August 1943 -- ten months after Torch -- Jews and other internees were still awaiting their liberation from forced labour camps in Morocco.

It wasn't until August 8, several months after the arrival of de Gaulle in Algeria and the handover of authority to the French National Liberation Committee, that Vichy-era racial laws in North Africa were finally repealed in their entirety. This must have been the slowest liberation of Axis territory in the entire war, taking up to nearly a year after the Allies assumed military control.

I was slightly inaccurate in post #8, where I said that the Darlan deal allowed Allied troops to land unopposed by Vichy forces in North Africa; the ceasefire was agreed a short time after the landings.

North and East Africa are two "sideshow" theatres of World War II that rarely get paid much attention. I had no idea until a few years ago that after regular Italian forces in East Africa surrendered to the British in November 1941, the British had to contend with two years of guerrilla warfare in Eritrea, Somalia and Ethiopia from the Figli d'Italia (a Fascist group) and the Fronte di Resistenza.

There are still so many largely untold stories from this conflict: stories that most of us have, even now, read little or nothing about.

yup. mostly because the war was fought with massive materiel and manpower advantage over the germans (basically just rommel's divisions, who had already lost their armored spearheads at el alamein, the last fight in north africa anyone bothers to remember) and was still kind of a slow advance. we didn't capture von arnim's first army until may 1943. we outnumbered them 2:1 in troops, but 10:1 in armor and air power.

it was in many was an embarrassment and highlight of the degree to which american GIs were not sufficiently trained for the war. changes were made, because if the level of organization we brought to TORCH were brought to the invasion of sicily and italy, or to Normandy, those campaigns would've been disasters.

lessons from fighting rommel helped develop the US combined arms combat discipline that was ultimately tested at the battle of the bulge.

Indoril posted...

I refuse to believe this is a serious question

It's Sunhawk.

Criminalt posted...

I was slightly inaccurate in post #8, when I said that the Darlan deal allowed Allied troops to land unopposed by Vichy forces in North Africa; the ceasefire was in fact agreed a short time after the initial landings.

Anyway, the historical record shows that if anyone imagines the safety and liberation of Jewish civilians under Fascist rule had some kind of priority in US foreign policy, they're quite mistaken. America did not go to war in 1941 to "save the Jews from the Nazis" -- or to save anyone from anyone, really. America went to war against Nazi Germany because that's simply what you do when other countries declare war on you.

@Criminalt Thanks for all the info! It's much appreciated