Current Events > To continue a thread (on Israel/Palestine)

(+) Yeah! (+)

DeadBankerDream posted...

I visited that kibbutz. The propaganda levels were staggering.

I have absolutely no doubt.

Israel has relied on pushing the narrative that any and all atrocities and crimes against humanity they commit can be justified by they started it.

Looks like RaymanNumbers blocked me, so I cant clarify my post in that topic. Ill just say this:

It goes without saying that crimes against humanity are utterly abhorrent and should be condemned by any decent person, no matter who commits them.

I pointed out that both sides in the conflicts up to and including those in 1948 committed outrages. I did so as additional context, and to point out how fucked up the situation was.

Pre 1948, the Jews settling in Palestine decided they owned the land and that the Palestinians were interlopers and invaders, that they were fighting for their homeland and that anything was acceptable.

Unsurprisingly and understandably, the Palestinians felt like they were fighting for their homes.

Not to ameliorate in any way the guilt of any party, or in any way ignore the horror of what the topic was about. The massacre was absolutely fucked up, and should be exposed. That there is a systematic refusal in Israel to admit that the massacre occurred speaks volumes about the narrative that the government and the IDF try to push.

How people could flee marginalisation, pogroms and outright systematic genocide and then start doing the same thing to people living in the place theyve decided they have a historical claim to is mind-boggling.

I like to stick to light hearted shitposting and dont really care about what happens on here, but I dont want people to think I support that shit.

From its inception, Israel was pitched as an apartheid state. I can understand Jews wanting a homeland, with the area that their predecessors settled being in Palestine, but everything they're doing to the Palestinian people who've been living there for generations is wrong.

And the thing is, Israel was established after WWII and for decades they've had Israel as their homeland. It came at the price of Palestinian lives and was enforced with guns and soldiers, but Israel is there now. It's understandable that Palestine and Israel aren't on friendly terms.

But here's the thing - Israelis have Israel. Palestinians have Palestine. The two countries exist, and things have been that way for a couple of generations now.

So why is Israel expanding further into Palestine?

Why are IDF soldiers arresting Muslim holy-men and their families, evicting them from their homes without letting them pack their belongings, and demolishing the house with generations worth of photos, writing, possessions and documents?

Israel exists. But they should be content with what they have. Instead, they accrued military force, and they're conducting ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian people.

They could have let Palestine have the Gaza strip. They could have erected their borders and declared Israel their homeland, and worked on their political relationship with Palestine to have a mutually beneficial travel agreement for Israelis to visit Jeruselum and for Muslims to visit the Dead Sea and other religious sites. But to this day, they walk into Palestine and stomp on the heads of children in the name of ethnic cleansing. It's disgusting.

To attribute this to all Jews is to compare all Muslims to Osama bin Laden - it's an extremist and erroneous statement, and it breeds bigotry. In no way are my comments intended to be a slight against the Jewish religion and its practitioners, the same way my comments against the CCP are not intended to be a bigoted slight against the people of China who have to live under that authoritarian government. What I'm criticising is a state, and the violence which that state perpetrates. There are Zionists, but there are Jewish people who understand the atrocities that the state of Israel commit against the Palestinian people and disagree with it.

But there's no way around it. The state of Israel has been committing completely unnecessary acts of violence and power against Palestine for decades, and what they're committing against those people now is ethnic cleansing. Israel is seizing land from Palestine, arresting/killing Palestinians who are legally settled there - whose lineage goes back centuries - and destroying their homes so they have nowhere to live. Israel is engaging in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, and for all the squabbles and issues they've had with Palestine in the past, such an egregious, illegal and vulgar display of power is wrong and should not be tolerated by the people of the world.

Also fuck Gal Gadot, as far as I'm concerned she's a child murderer.

MrMallard posted...

Also fuck Gal Gadot, as far as I'm concerned she's a child murderer.

I dont know how you came to that opinion, but maybe I missed some news about her involvement in child murders. If she really directly participated in such an operation, then it would be unforgivable. On the other hand, if youre implying that simply having served in the IDF directly links Gadot to murder, then that would be as weird and unreasonable as me saying that non-aboriginal Australians are murderers because they are citizens of a country that used force to establish their country.

It wouldnt make sense, so lets not do that.

Thanks Britain

MrMallard posted...

From its inception, Israel was pitched as an apartheid state. I can understand Jews wanting a homeland, with the area that their predecessors settled being in Palestine, but everything they're doing to the Palestinian people who've been living there for generations is wrong.

And the thing is, Israel was established after WWII and for decades they've had Israel as their homeland. It came at the price of Palestinian lives and was enforced with guns and soldiers, but Israel is there now. It's understandable that Palestine and Israel aren't on friendly terms.

But here's the thing - Israelis have Israel. Palestinians have Palestine. The two countries exist, and things have been that way for a couple of generations now.

So why is Israel expanding further into Palestine?

Why are IDF soldiers arresting Muslim holy-men and their families, evicting them from their homes without letting them pack their belongings, and demolishing the house with generations worth of photos, writing, possessions and documents?

Israel exists. But they should be content with what they have. Instead, they accrued military force, and they're conducting ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian people.

They could have let Palestine have the Gaza strip. They could have erected their borders and declared Israel their homeland, and worked on their political relationship with Palestine to have a mutually beneficial travel agreement for Israelis to visit Jeruselum and for Muslims to visit the Dead Sea and other religious sites. But to this day, they walk into Palestine and stomp on the heads of children in the name of ethnic cleansing. It's disgusting.

To attribute this to all Jews is to compare all Muslims to Osama bin Laden - it's an extremist and erroneous statement, and it breeds bigotry. In no way are my comments intended to be a slight against the Jewish religion and its practitioners, the same way my comments against the CCP are not intended to be a bigoted slight against the people of China who have to live under that authoritarian government. What I'm criticising is a state, and the violence which that state perpetrates. There are Zionists, but there are Jewish people who understand the atrocities that the state of Israel commit against the Palestinian people and disagree with it.

But there's no way around it. The state of Israel has been committing completely unnecessary acts of violence and power against Palestine for decades, and what they're committing against those people now is ethnic cleansing. Israel is seizing land from Palestine, arresting/killing Palestinians who are legally settled there - whose lineage goes back centuries - and destroying their homes so they have nowhere to live. Israel is engaging in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, and for all the squabbles and issues they've had with Palestine in the past, such an egregious, illegal and vulgar display of power is wrong and should not be tolerated by the people of the world.

Also fuck Gal Gadot, as far as I'm concerned she's a child murderer.

Once again, you have very adroitly summed up a situation and articulated the issues clearly and with a presence of mind that is quite out of place on CE.

Thats a round about way of saying I agree completely, I guess.

At some point Palestine need to accept they lost and that losing has consequences

Lord_Shadow posted...

At some point Palestine need to accept they lost and that losing has consequences

That doesn't make genocide ok

Lord_Shadow posted...

At some point Palestine need to accept they lost and that losing has consequences

There is no "they"
The average palestinian is not at fault. Stop normalizing the punishment of entire nations

wait, was the other topic deleted?
there was nothing wrong with it.

Zikten posted...

That doesn't make genocide ok

Yeah it's not a genocide. A bunch of crazy people are hiding behind civilians launching Rockets into Jerusalem. Not going to blame Israel for taking defensive steps

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/4/0/AACEPOAAC2uY.jpg https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/4/1/AACEPOAAC2uZ.jpg

Lord_Shadow posted...

Yeah it's not a genocide. A bunch of crazy people are hiding behind civilians launching Rockets into Jerusalem. Not going to blame Israel for taking defensive steps

There was a genocide in 1948 to make room for Isralis to populate villages

That is what the original topic was about

Lord_Shadow posted...

Yeah it's not a genocide. A bunch of crazy people are hiding behind civilians launching Rockets into Jerusalem. Not going to blame Israel for taking defensive steps

calling it genocide is a huge stretch, especially IIRC the population has only gone up.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

I dont know how you came to that opinion, but maybe I missed some news about her involvement in child murders. If she really directly participated in such an operation, then it would be unforgivable. On the other hand, if youre implying that simply having served in the IDF directly links Gadot to murder, then that would be as weird and unreasonable as me saying that non-aboriginal Australians are murderers because they are citizens of a country that used force to establish their country.

It wouldnt make sense, so lets not do that.

I'll admit that the last part was there for the sake of being provocative, though there was a rationale there involving an incident in 2014 where an IDC missile killed four people in Gaza, including two Palestinian children who were playing soccer on the beach. I was under the impression that Gal Gadot was involved in the incident due to her past serving in the IDC - I was wrong about her involvement.

Rather, the controversy stemmed from a scene in Wonder Woman 84 where two kids are playing soccer and a missile flies at them, but Wonder Woman deflects the missile and saves their lives. This didn't sit well with people who are familiar with the conflict between Israel and Palestine, especially considering that Gal Gadot served in the same armed force that led to the death of children through missile strikes - specifically one event which closely mirrored events of the movie, except in real life, the side Gadot was on fired the missile and those children died.

But frankly, calling Gal Gadot a child murderer was a step too far and I was wrong in thinking she was directly involved in the 2014 missile strike. The idea was that I'd make a really well thought out post and then post something stupid and provocative right at the end, but the base for my final comment was totally off and I don't want my entire post to be discredited with such a dumb throwaway comment. I kinda shat the bed on that one, though I stand by everything else I said before bringing Gal Gadot up out of nowhere.

*yawn*

MrMallard posted...

@MrMallard
No worries. Credit to you for explaining and clearing it up. I am trying to understand this issue better, though I think I do need to do more reading on the history of that conflict. Anyway, have a good day.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/9/8/AAAC4bAACSPW.jpg

i think that would be more apt to say "crimes against humanity"

Lord_Shadow posted...

Yeah it's not a genocide. A bunch of crazy people are hiding behind civilians launching Rockets into Jerusalem. Not going to blame Israel for taking defensive steps

How do you explain innocent Palestinians being forcefully evicted from their homes which are then demolished?

I support free/democratic nations, and oppose terrorism.