Poll of the Day > I was thinking about Pokemon gym leaders. . .

(+) Yeah! (+)

Maybe instead of types, one game should have them pick something else... Like maybe a gym leader that uses lizard pokmon or rodent pokmon regardless of type. I feel that would be a better challenge... As of now, many people can just pick one or two good pokmon of the type the opponent is weak to, and destroy them. But by picking a certain kind of pokmon without all them either being the same type, or having moves of that type, they just have a certain kind of pokemon to have more type variety, and make a better challenge...

What do you guys think? I think it would be kind of cool to see something like that... Even if only once or twice...

Raihan had a weather team.

The twins used Lunatone and Solarock

Putting aside the chances of it happening, it does sound cool.

It would also be cool if each gym leader (and possibly regular trainer) had a set pool of Pokemon to choose from in battle, so they're less predictable. Same goes for attacks.

Also this ship has long since sailed, but I've always wanted to see unevolved Pokemon become viable in some way. Like giving instead of just making them overall weaker, give them different stats (i.e. physically smaller forms having higher speed, etc), or giving forms exclusive moves that would be erased if they evolve, etc. It would be nice if there was a legitimate reason to not evolve, besides just learning moves early.

keyblader1985 posted...

It would be nice if there was a legitimate reason to not evolve, besides just learning moves early.

Eviolite.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

Raihan had a weather team.

Really? I have to look that up...

Lokarin posted...

The twins used Lunatone and Solarock

Like the normal girl trainers?

keyblader1985 posted...

It would also be cool if each gym leader (and possibly regular trainer) had a set pool of Pokemon to choose from in battle, so they're less predictable. Same goes for attacks.

Oh, yeah. This would also be cool... I feel it adds a little challenge to things. It's not just building a team around what you know they'll have...

keyblader1985 posted...

Also this ship has long since sailed, but I've always wanted to see unevolved Pokemon become viable in some way. Like giving instead of just making them overall weaker, give them different stats (i.e. physically smaller forms having higher speed, etc), or giving forms exclusive moves that would be erased if they evolve, etc. It would be nice if there was a legitimate reason to not evolve, besides just learning moves early.

Yeah. That was the only reason before. And even that's not even a really good reason, anymore. It would be nice. Especially since I do like some of the unevolved forms a little more...

It would be a neat concept for a more adult oriented pokemon game:

Imagine a 50 year old having a midlife crisis decides to quit their job and become a pokemon trainer, gets their ass kicked by ten year olds.

US/UM were the last mainline games I played and there was a lot of handholding throughout the game, it would be a nice change of pace if there was some actual difficulty progression like the early games, maybe make the nuzlocke rules an official mode for a real challenge.

KodyKeir posted...

It would be a neat concept for a more adult oriented pokemon game:

Imagine a 50 year old having a midlife crisis decides to quit their job and become a pokemon trainer, gets their ass kicked by ten year olds.

US/UM were the last mainline games I played and there was a lot of handholding throughout the game, it would be a nice change of pace if there was some actual difficulty progression like the early games, maybe make the nuzlocke rules an official mode for a real challenge.

Yeah. I always feel like it way too easy, tbh... Having the nuzlocke as actual rules would be cool. Though, I'm not sure I'd be able to do it... Haha...

There was Flint, an Elite Four in Diamond and Pearl, that only had 2 fire types out of his 5 Pokemon.

faramir77 posted...

There was Flint, an Elite Four in Diamond and Pearl, that only had 2 fire types out of his 5 Pokemon.

Yeah. When I played Pearl, I did notice the some of the Elite four was a little weird with types. And obviously, the Champion had variety...

You mean, maybe they could change up the formula in literally any meaningful fashion so the games aren't the same thing over and over? Any maybe they could design the game in a way where it wasn't intentionally very easy? The thing many long time Pokemon fans have been asking for forever? Well, the ones that aren't aggressively in favor of the games never changing.

In before "it's for kids" and "Legends: Arceus".

ForteEXE3850 posted...

You mean, maybe they could change up the formula in literally any meaningful fashion so the games aren't the same thing over and over? Any maybe they could design the game in a way where it wasn't intentionally very easy? The thing many long time Pokemon fans have been asking for forever? Well, the ones that aren't aggressively in favor of the games never changing.

In before "it's for kids" and "Legends: Arceus".

Yeah. Changing a little would be nice. But still somewhat similar formula. That's why I was saying gyms would still have a type like lizards, rodents, or something. But they would be different types, so you couldn't just bulldoze with one of two pokmon. You would still have order, but more of a challenge. Or like Key said, maybe have a pool of pokmon who also have a pool of moves. I think that could be fun, and kind of cool...

LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. Changing a little would be nice. But still somewhat similar formula. That's why I was saying gyms would still have a type like lizards, rodents, or something. But they would be different types, so you couldn't just bulldoze with one of two pokmon. You would still have order, but more of a challenge. Or like Key said, maybe have a pool of pokmon who also have a pool of moves. I think that could be fun, and kind of cool...

Even still using the "Gyms" format, there have been many ideas thrown around in the past about how to make them more interesting, and different.

The most popular one I've heard of is each gym focusing on different competitive strategies, like a stall gym, a stat boosting gym, a doubles gym, a Trick Room gym, etc. Of course, the problem with this is the developers would actually have to pay attention to how the game is played competitively, which they don't, so they would have no idea how to implement this, which is why the idea wouldn't work. They 1/2 arsed this idea before by having a gym where everyone is programmed to start the battle with a stat boosting item. It's funny that of all the strategies the game went out of it's way to try to demonstrate, it was winning against your AI opponent by being richer then them and using items they can't.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

Even still using the "Gyms" format, there have been many ideas thrown around in the past about how to make them more interesting, and different.

The most popular one I've heard of is each gym focusing on different competitive strategies, like a stall gym, a stat boosting gym, a doubles gym, a Trick Room gym, etc. Of course, the problem with this is the developers would actually have to pay attention to how the game is played competitively, which they don't, so they would have no idea how to implement this, which is why the idea wouldn't work. They 1/2 arsed this idea before by having a gym where everyone is programmed to start the battle with a stat boosting item. It's funny that of all the strategies the game went out of it's way to try to demonstrate, it was winning against your AI opponent by being richer then them and using items they can't.

I think those could be fun. That said, I'm not really a competitive player. I just enjoy the single player stuff. Which is why I think it would be cool to add cool stuff to single player...

LinkPizza posted...

I think those could be fun. That said, I'm not really a competitive player. I just enjoy the single player stuff. Which is why I think it would be cool to add cool stuff to single player...

I stopped caring about competitive Pokemon myself a long time ago, I was just talking about a popular idea for varying up the gyms like you said.

I believe the official competitive format has been doubles only for years now (because it's faster and disallows stall strategies). So no matter the strategy single battles wouldn't be matching the official competitive format anyway.

I've heard some suggest the games be doubles only to match the official competitive format (not that I believe the official competitive format was designed with anything but speed in mind anyway) but the issue with that is within the Pokemon franchise it's mostly only the official competitive format where doubles are the norm. Everywhere else 1 vs 1 is shown to be the normal way Pokemon are used, the anime, movies, most spinoff games, etc.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

I stopped caring about competitive Pokemon myself a long time ago, I was just talking about a popular idea for varying up the gyms like you said.

I believe the official competitive format has been doubles only for years now (because it's faster and disallows stall strategies). So no matter the strategy single battles wouldn't be matching the official competitive format anyway.

I've heard some suggest the games be doubles only to match the official competitive format (not that I believe the official competitive format was designed with anything but speed in mind anyway) but the issue with that is within the Pokemon franchise it's mostly only the official competitive format where doubles are the norm. Everywhere else 1 vs 1 is shown to be the normal way Pokemon are used, the anime, movies, most spinoff games, etc.

Yeah. I always try to do doubles because with singles, it turns into people switching constantly to get a pokmon who's strong against another. And that gets boring...

As for the anime, movies, spinoffs, etc..., they just need to catch up and do more doubles...

ForteEXE3850 posted...

The most popular one I've heard of is each gym focusing on different competitive strategies, like a stall gym, a stat boosting gym, a doubles gym, a Trick Room gym, etc. Of course, the problem with this is the developers would actually have to pay attention to how the game is played competitively, which they don't, so they would have no idea how to implement this, which is why the idea wouldn't work.

What do you think of the BDSP Gym and E4 rematches?

I think the issue is each region has a limited pokedex. Like you could have a dog theme trainer but there typically isn't enough in each region to give them more than 2 maybe 3 because gym leaders tend to have fairly common pokemon of their type that you have "normally" already had an opportunity to see wild.

In order for it to change I think Pokemon would have to decide to step their game up in terms of difficulty.

battles against trainers should resemble the meta more

BlackScythe0 posted...

I think the issue is each region has a limited pokedex. Like you could have a dog theme trainer but there typically isn't enough in each region to give them more than 2 maybe 3 because gym leaders tend to have fairly common pokemon of their type that you have "normally" already had an opportunity to see wild.

Why should gym leaders be restricted by local pokedex?

keyblader1985 posted...

Why should gym leaders be restricted by local pokedex?

I didn't say it should, I said it was, because up until now that is how it has been.

BlackScythe0 posted...

I think the issue is each region has a limited pokedex. Like you could have a dog theme trainer but there typically isn't enough in each region to give them more than 2 maybe 3 because gym leaders tend to have fairly common pokemon of their type that you have "normally" already had an opportunity to see wild.

It would have to have multiple regions pokmon to work Though, that wouldnt really be that bad

BlackScythe0 posted...

In order for it to change I think Pokemon would have to decide to step their game up in terms of difficulty.

Which is good depending on how they do it

JOExHIGASHI posted...

battles against trainers should resemble the meta more

Like the show and stuff? That would be hard for many reasons, I think

keyblader1985 posted...

Why should gym leaders be restricted by local pokedex?

This is true. I mean, people can travel and stuff

BlackScythe0 posted...

I didn't say it should, I said it was, because up until now that is how it has been.

We're talking about changing things up though. No reason that would be a hard rule.

LinkPizza posted...

Like the show and stuff? That would be hard for many reasons, I think

I mean like actual competitive play. Early trainer battkes would have low tier pokemon with bad moveset and later in the game they will have higher tier pokemon and actual strategies.

JOExHIGASHI posted...

I mean like actual competitive play. Early trainer battkes would have low tier pokemon with bad moveset and later in the game they will have higher tier pokemon and actual strategies.

Oh. I see

keyblader1985 posted...

We're talking about changing things up though. No reason that would be a hard rule.

I think there could be reasonable exceptions, like specifically the elite 4. But I also think it makes sense for gym leaders specifically lower level gym leaders to have local pokemon. A gymleader isn't going to bring out their strongest team against someone trying to get their first badge after all.

BlackScythe0 posted...

I think there could be reasonable exceptions, like specifically the elite 4. But I also think it makes sense for gym leaders specifically lower level gym leaders to have local pokemon. A gymleader isn't going to bring out their strongest team against someone trying to get their first badge after all.

Yeah. True. Tbh, Innever really understood the gun thing. Its suppose to be strong trainers, but also beatable. But its works different in the games since there has to be progression. Where in the show, Im not even sure they have levels

LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. True. Tbh, Innever really understood the gun thing. Its suppose to be strong trainers, but also beatable. But its works different in the games since there has to be progression. Where in the show, Im not even sure they have levels

Well the Origins ova they put out a few years back when he fights Brock he asks how many badges he has before selecting pokemon to face him with. So that is an official explanation of how it is handled, it's just the pokemon games are linear.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Well the Origins ova they put out a few years back when he fights Brock he asks how many badges he has before selecting pokemon to face him with. So that is an official explanation of how it is handled, it's just the pokemon games are linear.

I see I dont think I ever saw that

IIRC the origins series was released on YouTube for the anniversary

the first gym in B/W was run by three leaders, and the one who fought you would use an ace that was strong against your starter. that was neat.

also the last gym of Sw/Sh claimed to be a Dragon gym, but the leader used a Sandstorm team that had just two Dragons.

LinkPizza posted...

As of now, many people can just pick one or two good pokmon of the type the opponent is weak to,

Most types now have an absurd amount of counter coverage.

Take a poison gym, for example. What would you use? Psychic or ground? Drapion and other Poison/Dark types exist, resisting psychic. Poison/Grass and poison/flying exists.

Ground for electric? Electric/bug and electric/flying are things.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

ou mean, maybe they could change up the formula in literally any meaningful fashion so the games aren't the same thing over and over? Any maybe they could design the game in a way where it wasn't intentionally very easy? The thing many long time Pokemon fans have been asking for forever? Well, the ones that aren't aggressively in favor of the games never changing.

When they massively changed how gyms worked in USHUM people rightfully hated it. You're basically asking for a Madden where they play hockey.

CENSOR BYPASS POSTED

US/UM were the last mainline games I played and there was a lot of handholding throughout the game, it would be a nice change of pace if there was some actual difficulty progression like the early games, maybe make the nuzlocke rules an official mode for a real challenge.

The original games were more just poorly balanced, not so much progressive difficulty. That said, all games level-scale as you go throughout... despite the fact it makes no fucking sense, unless everybody in the wold started in the same small town.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

Even still using the "Gyms" format, there have been many ideas thrown around in the past about how to make them more interesting, and different.

The most popular one I've heard of is each gym focusing on different competitive strategies, like a stall gym, a stat boosting gym, a doubles gym, a Trick Room gym, etc. Of course, the problem with this is the developers would actually have to pay attention to how the game is played competitively, which they don't, so they would have no idea how to implement this, which is why the idea wouldn't work. They 1/2 arsed this idea before by having a gym where everyone is programmed to start the battle with a stat boosting item. It's funny that of all the strategies the game went out of it's way to try to demonstrate, it was winning against your AI opponent by being richer then them and using items they can't.

...and yet the battle towers have had trainers used shit like this.

Zeus posted...

Most types now have an absurd amount of counter coverage.

Take a poison gym, for example. What would you use? Psychic or ground? Drapion and other Poison/Dark types exist, resisting psychic. Poison/Grass and poison/flying exists.

Ground for electric? Electric/bug and electric/flying are things.

While this is true, I remember the gym leaders having pretty normal pokmon that has easy weaknesses... Or at the very least, I had an attack I could run through them with...

Zeus posted...

When they massively changed how gyms worked in USHUM people rightfully hated it. You're basically asking for a Madden where they play hockey.

How did it work in those games?

Zeus posted...

The original games were more just poorly balanced, not so much progressive difficulty. That said, all games level-scale as you go throughout... despite the fact it makes no fucking sense, unless everybody in the wold started in the same small town.

I guess it's because in the "real pokmon world", levels don't even exist, right? I assume that's why they kind of have to level scale...

LinkPizza posted...

How did it work in those games?

They replaced the gyms entirely with the Island Trials where you had to fight a "boss" type pokemon that would call in allies to help it out, then a Grand Trial where you would face the strongest trainer on the island. Still had the elite four though.

gym? what's a gym?

I will mention I'd been recently thinking it'd be cool if there was a dino-themed region for Pokemon, or if they just had a dino gym... but then I realized almost all dinosaur Pokemon are rock types (for no fucking good reason -- it's just a holdover from when they entered the franchise as fossils) so most are weak against water or, in the case of rock/water types, 4x weak against grass.

LinkPizza posted...

How did it work in those games?

There was a weird trials system in many cases, and then you also had one gym leader (although they were "Kahunas" rather than gym leaders, because the system was different) who just straight-up handed you her (I think it was a chick) badge.

Most of the trials involved exploring an area to find Pokemon in specific places to fight, and then the Kahuna or whatever would fight you. Basically you had to impress a Kahuna, and then the Kahuna would let you fight them for their badge. And iirc some of the Kahunas became the E4 because the Alola region didn't have an E4.

Krazy_Kirby posted... gym? what's a gym?

Oh... a gym...