Poll of the Day > In The Simpsons nuclear family which character do you think is the weakest?

(+) Yeah! (+)

not counting maggie. Do you think it might be bart? when the series 1st started iirc he was the biggest character then it turned to homer.

Like, physically?

of course not

Lisa. She's... kinda 2D.

Unbridled9 posted...

Lisa. She's... kinda 2D.

Depends on the writers. Essentially whichever writers go on to fuck up her character development and make her super annoying. Marge can at least be an interesting character when there's episodes of her.

In my opinion, Lisa, especially the newest episodes. It is interesting you say Bart and Homer because I remember reading something online that said something along the lines of, Watching the Simpsons as a kid, we admire/idolize Bart, but when we watch as an adult, we can more easily sympathize with Homer.

Simpsons havent been relevant or good since the 90s.

Probably Marge. She gets the fewest solo storylines. That said, Lisa gets the weakest/worst solo storylines.

UT1999 posted...

Do you think it might be bart?

No, that's just fucking stupid. The most prominent Simpsons characters are Bart and Homer, with the majority of storylines revolving around them. The two have shared similar billing throughout the show's run, although Bart was much bigger in terms for merch for a long time.

UT1999 posted...

when the series 1st started iirc he was the biggest character then it turned to homer.

Well, let's test that theory (and we're excluding the Tracy Ullman shorts because you said series).

Here are the 13 season 1 episodes

"Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire"
"Bart the Genius"
"Homer's Odyssey"
"There's No Disgrace Like Home"
"Bart the General"
"Moaning Lisa"
"The Call of the Simpsons"
"The Telltale Head"
"Life on the Fast Lane"
"Homer's Night Out"
"The Crepes of Wrath"
"Krusty Gets Busted"
"Some Enchanted Evening"

Bart is referenced in 2 episode names, Homer is referenced in 2, and surprisingly Lisa is in 1.

By individual contributions:

Bart & Homer episode

"Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" (50/50, with an overlap)

Bart episode

"Bart the Genius"
"Bart the General"
"The Telltale Head" (although Homer heavily features, Bart drives the story)

"The Crepes of Wrath" (A-side is Bart going to France; B-side is a transfer student getting close to Homer)

"Krusty Gets Busted" (Although it starts with Homer and Lisa heavily features, it's the beginning of Bart's feud with Sideshow Bob which makes it a Bart episode)

Homer episode

"Homer's Odyssey"

"Homer's Night Out" (Bart heavily features -- he takes the photo of Homer and Homer is supposed to teach him a lesson about respecting women. However, it's a Homer episode because the whole revolves around his actions)

Lisa episode

"Moaning Lisa" (Calling it a Lisa episode because she gets the A-story and episode name, but the b-side is a video game competition between Bart & Homer. It's also probably the worst season 1 episode, starting the tradition of "Ugh, a Lisa episode")

"The Call of the Simpsons" (Again, it's more Bart & Homer than anything, with Homer getting the most notable moment)

Marge Episode

"Life on the Fast Lane" (The one where Homer buys Marge a bowling ball for her birthday; not a great episode. Features Homer a lot more than Bart, but it's ultimately a Marge episode. There are almost no Marge episodes in the show's run. At most, she gets the occasional B or C-side story)

Ensemble

"There's No Disgrace Like Home" (Honestly, it's a Homer storyline that heavily incorporates the rest of the cast. He's driving 90% of the story, but because the family features throughout the episode as a group, I'm putting it as ensemble)

"Some Enchanted Evening" (Marge & Homer have a date night, Lisa & Bart contend with the Babysitter Bandit. The L&B story is more memorable, but M&H start the episode)

So surprisingly Bart does have a larger role in season 1. Looking over season 2, I'd say it's probably 50/50 Bart vs Homer ("Lisa's Substitute" heavily features Homer and "Brush with Greatness" is probably 50/50 Marge vs Homer, which buffers Homer a bit)

Let's compare this to the latest complete season (33), to see if Bart's role has really declined

"Undercover Burns"
"I, Carumbus"
"Now Museum, Now You Don't"
"Treehouse of Horror XXXI"
"The 7 Beer Itch"
"Podcast News"
"Three Dreams Denied"
"The Road to Cincinnati"
"Sorry Not Sorry"
"A Springfield Summer Christmas for Christmas"
"The Dad-Feelings Limited"
"Diary Queen"
"Wad Goals"
"Yokel Hero"
"Do Pizza Bots Dream of Electric Guitars"
"Manger Things"
"Uncut Femmes"
"Burger Kings"
"Panic on the Streets of Springfield"
"Mother and Child Reunion"
"The Man from G.R.A.M.P.A."
"The Last Barfighter"

This is kinda tough because the season featured other characters more prominently, which has been a trend in recent seasons.

Mostly Homer

"The 7 Beer Itch"
"Yokel Hero" (Homer & Cletus)

"Do Pizza Bots Dream of Electric Guitars" (the only episode I didn't bother watching this season, but it seems to be a Homer episode)

"Manger Things" (Homer, Marge, and Ned episode -- Todd's middle name revealed)

"The Last Barfighter"

Mostly Bart

"Three Dreams Denied" (technically it's 1/3 Bart, with 1/3 Comic Book Guy and 1/3 Lisa)
"Diary Queen" (Bart finds Edna's old diary)
"Wad Goals" (Bart caddy episode)

Mostly Grandpa/Abe

"Podcast News" (the rest of the family features, but it's really about Abe)

"The Man from G.R.A.M.P.A." (technically it's Homer & Abe, but Abe gets billing)
Both or Ensemble

"I, Carumbus"
"Now Museum, Now You Don't" (two historical anthology episodes in the same season... fuck this was a mostly lousy season)

"Treehouse of Horror XXXI" (Homer opening then a Bart story, a Homer story, and a Lisa story)

"Burger Kings"

Other character

"Undercover Burns" (technically Lisa has a major part and then Homer heavily features)

"The Road to Cincinnati" (Skinner and Chalmers, lol. The episode doesn't feature the Simpsons until the end iirc)

"Sorry Not Sorry" (Lisa episode)

"A Springfield Summer Christmas for Christmas" (Hallmark movie parody, which is probably more Skinner than anybody. Probably my favorite episode this season)

"Uncut Femmes" (Marge & Ralph's mom)

"The Dad-Feelings Limited" (Comic Book Guy episode; counting his 1/3 in "Three Dreams" he features pretty heavily this season)

"Panic on the Streets of Springfield" (Lisa episode heavily featuring Homer)

"Mother and Child Reunion" (at face value, its mostly a Lisa and Marge episode)

------------------------

So Homer kinda has 5-6 while Bart has 3 and Lisa has 3. However, the family as a whole has less impact this season, so... meh.

On a broader level, Bart and Homer have ALWAYS been the two big family members, from the beginning of the show until now. The idea that Bart went from being #1/2 to being #4 is just patently ridiculous. Homer and Bart have always been #1/2, Lisa #3, and Marge #4.

Weakest? Lisa, literally any of the others could take her in a fight

Zeus posted...

Probably Marge. She gets the fewest solo storylines. That said, Lisa gets the weakest/worst solo storylines.

No, that's just fucking stupid. The most prominent Simpsons characters are Bart and Homer, with the majority of storylines revolving around them. The two have shared similar billing throughout the show's run, although Bart was much bigger in terms for merch for a long time.

Well, let's test that theory (and we're excluding the Tracy Ullman shorts because you said series).

Here are the 13 season 1 episodes

"Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire"
"Bart the Genius"
"Homer's Odyssey"
"There's No Disgrace Like Home"
"Bart the General"
"Moaning Lisa"
"The Call of the Simpsons"
"The Telltale Head"
"Life on the Fast Lane"
"Homer's Night Out"
"The Crepes of Wrath"
"Krusty Gets Busted"
"Some Enchanted Evening"

Bart is referenced in 2 episode names, Homer is referenced in 2, and surprisingly Lisa is in 1.

By individual contributions:

Bart & Homer episode

"Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" (50/50, with an overlap)

Bart episode

"Bart the Genius"
"Bart the General"
"The Telltale Head" (although Homer heavily features, Bart drives the story)

"The Crepes of Wrath" (A-side is Bart going to France; B-side is a transfer student getting close to Homer)

"Krusty Gets Busted" (Although it starts with Homer and Lisa heavily features, it's the beginning of Bart's feud with Sideshow Bob which makes it a Bart episode)

Homer episode

"Homer's Odyssey"

"Homer's Night Out" (Bart heavily features -- he takes the photo of Homer and Homer is supposed to teach him a lesson about respecting women. However, it's a Homer episode because the whole revolves around his actions)

Lisa episode

"Moaning Lisa" (Calling it a Lisa episode because she gets the A-story and episode name, but the b-side is a video game competition between Bart & Homer. It's also probably the worst season 1 episode, starting the tradition of "Ugh, a Lisa episode")

"The Call of the Simpsons" (Again, it's more Bart & Homer than anything, with Homer getting the most notable moment)

Marge Episode

"Life on the Fast Lane" (The one where Homer buys Marge a bowling ball for her birthday; not a great episode. Features Homer a lot more than Bart, but it's ultimately a Marge episode. There are almost no Marge episodes in the show's run. At most, she gets the occasional B or C-side story)

Ensemble

"There's No Disgrace Like Home" (Honestly, it's a Homer storyline that heavily incorporates the rest of the cast. He's driving 90% of the story, but because the family features throughout the episode as a group, I'm putting it as ensemble)

"Some Enchanted Evening" (Marge & Homer have a date night, Lisa & Bart contend with the Babysitter Bandit. The L&B story is more memorable, but M&H start the episode)

So surprisingly Bart does have a larger role in season 1. Looking over season 2, I'd say it's probably 50/50 Bart vs Homer ("Lisa's Substitute" heavily features Homer and "Brush with Greatness" is probably 50/50 Marge vs Homer, which buffers Homer a bit)

Let's compare this to the latest complete season (33), to see if Bart's role has really declined

"Undercover Burns"
"I, Carumbus"
"Now Museum, Now You Don't"
"Treehouse of Horror XXXI"
"The 7 Beer Itch"
"Podcast News"
"Three Dreams Denied"
"The Road to Cincinnati"
"Sorry Not Sorry"
"A Springfield Summer Christmas for Christmas"
"The Dad-Feelings Limited"
"Diary Queen"
"Wad Goals"
"Yokel Hero"
"Do Pizza Bots Dream of Electric Guitars"
"Manger Things"
"Uncut Femmes"
"Burger Kings"
"Panic on the Streets of Springfield"
"Mother and Child Reunion"
"The Man from G.R.A.M.P.A."
"The Last Barfighter"

This is kinda tough because the season featured other characters more prominently, which has been a trend in recent seasons.

Mostly Homer

"The 7 Beer Itch"
"Yokel Hero" (Homer & Cletus)

"Do Pizza Bots Dream of Electric Guitars" (the only episode I didn't bother watching this season, but it seems to be a Homer episode)

"Manger Things" (Homer, Marge, and Ned episode -- Todd's middle name revealed)

"The Last Barfighter"

Mostly Bart

"Three Dreams Denied" (technically it's 1/3 Bart, with 1/3 Comic Book Guy and 1/3 Lisa)
"Diary Queen" (Bart finds Edna's old diary)
"Wad Goals" (Bart caddy episode)

Mostly Grandpa/Abe

"Podcast News" (the rest of the family features, but it's really about Abe)

"The Man from G.R.A.M.P.A." (technically it's Homer & Abe, but Abe gets billing)
Both or Ensemble

"I, Carumbus"
"Now Museum, Now You Don't" (two historical anthology episodes in the same season... fuck this was a mostly lousy season)

"Treehouse of Horror XXXI" (Homer opening then a Bart story, a Homer story, and a Lisa story)

"Burger Kings"

Other character

"Undercover Burns" (technically Lisa has a major part and then Homer heavily features)

"The Road to Cincinnati" (Skinner and Chalmers, lol. The episode doesn't feature the Simpsons until the end iirc)

"Sorry Not Sorry" (Lisa episode)

"A Springfield Summer Christmas for Christmas" (Hallmark movie parody, which is probably more Skinner than anybody. Probably my favorite episode this season)

"Uncut Femmes" (Marge & Ralph's mom)

"The Dad-Feelings Limited" (Comic Book Guy episode; counting his 1/3 in "Three Dreams" he features pretty heavily this season)

"Panic on the Streets of Springfield" (Lisa episode heavily featuring Homer)

"Mother and Child Reunion" (at face value, its mostly a Lisa and Marge episode)

------------------------

So Homer kinda has 5-6 while Bart has 3 and Lisa has 3. However, the family as a whole has less impact this season, so... meh.

On a broader level, Bart and Homer have ALWAYS been the two big family members, from the beginning of the show until now. The idea that Bart went from being #1/2 to being #4 is just patently ridiculous. Homer and Bart have always been #1/2, Lisa #3, and Marge #4.

Do the rest of the series.

sull56ivan2010 posted...

Depends on the writers. Essentially whichever writers go on to fuck up her character development and make her super annoying. Marge can at least be an interesting character when there's episodes of her.

Well, the issue is that she gets, by FAR, the most political stories. And they're all left-leaning ones to boot. So whenever a Lisa episode comes up there's a good chance it's going to be little more than patronizing talking down and glorification of left-leaning politics. Which... even for the left... is kind of stale and boring. Lisa goes Gaga probably being the best example of this. If you're on the center or right it's even worse.

I think it could be improved if they did a South Park where they make fun of all sides or at least gave her some right-leaning episodes to round her off; but whenever I think of Lisa all I think of is how she does political stuff and doesn't have much else beyond her love of Malibu Stacy dolls. She's better as a supporting character (especially for Bart who usually takes the lead) but on her own... she's irritating and flat.

Marge. She just seems to be in the background most of the time.

Unbridled9 posted...

Well, the issue is that she gets, by FAR, the most political stories. And they're all left-leaning ones to boot. So whenever a Lisa episode comes up there's a good chance it's going to be little more than patronizing talking down and glorification of left-leaning politics. Which... even for the left... is kind of stale and boring. Lisa goes Gaga probably being the best example of this. If you're on the center or right it's even worse.

I think it could be improved if they did a South Park where they make fun of all sides or at least gave her some right-leaning episodes to round her off; but whenever I think of Lisa all I think of is how she does political stuff and doesn't have much else beyond her love of Malibu Stacy dolls. She's better as a supporting character (especially for Bart who usually takes the lead) but on her own... she's irritating and flat.

That's one thing I've noticed in recent years. The show being even more liberal. It always was, but never this heavy and blatant. Even beyond Lisa episodes. Wish they would look back at episodes like Summer of 4 ft 2 and some of those early seasons where she was a normal kid and not a mouthpiece.

sull56ivan2010 posted...

That's one thing I've noticed in recent years. The show being even more liberal. It always was, but never this heavy and blatant. Even beyond Lisa episodes. Wish they would look back at episodes like Summer of 4 ft 2 and some of those early seasons where she was a normal kid and not a mouthpiece.

Not only has there been a massive left-ward shift along the west coast where the vast majority of media is created (Simpsons included) but there's a bunch of other writers now and I wouldn't be shocked if the vast majority, if not all of them, were local hires. I.E. Not only has the culture shifted leftwards (influencing current writers) but any new hires are from said shifted culture as well.

Revelation34 posted...

Do the rest of the series.

Hell no. Or, if I did, I'd probably just look at the episode title and rely on memory alone. For that round, I checked wikipedia in case I was forgetting something (or when I didn't remember a title, because those aren't shown when you're watching the series and don't always convey an episode's content)

Unbridled9 posted...

Well, the issue is that she gets, by FAR, the most political stories. And they're all left-leaning ones to boot. So whenever a Lisa episode comes up there's a good chance it's going to be little more than patronizing talking down and glorification of left-leaning politics. Which... even for the left... is kind of stale and boring. Lisa goes Gaga probably being the best example of this. If you're on the center or right it's even worse.

I think it could be improved if they did a South Park where they make fun of all sides or at least gave her some right-leaning episodes to round her off; but whenever I think of Lisa all I think of is how she does political stuff and doesn't have much else beyond her love of Malibu Stacy dolls. She's better as a supporting character (especially for Bart who usually takes the lead) but on her own... she's irritating and flat.

It's also social issues. However, I feel like they could still get away with stuff like that without Lisa being insufferable. The fact that she's lacking in personality is probably the larger problem, which makes her non-political/social issue episodes (although they still virtue signal various causes in lieu of personality) crap as well. Granted, most of her non-specifically political/social issue episodes tend to be "future" and/or romance episodes, so... that's also a consideration.

Zeus posted...

Hell no. Or, if I did, I'd probably just look at the episode title and rely on memory alone. For that round, I checked wikipedia in case I was forgetting something (or when I didn't remember a title, because those aren't shown when you're watching the series and don't always convey an episode's content)

It's also social issues. However, I feel like they could still get away with stuff like that without Lisa being insufferable. The fact that she's lacking in personality is probably the larger problem, which makes her non-political/social issue episodes (although they still virtue signal various causes in lieu of personality) crap as well. Granted, most of her non-specifically political/social issue episodes tend to be "future" and/or romance episodes, so... that's also a consideration.

I think there may have been one or two that were non-political; but they were about Mr. Burns being evil and whatnot and didn't really flesh out her personality.

Lisa, she's annoying and preachy