Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 382: Kamala Harris has Presidential Powers Today

(+) Yeah! (+)

No I didnt compare it to BLM protests, I compared it to riots.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This is called a disagreement

Whitewashing.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

No I didnt compare it to BLM protests, I compared it to riots.

Okay, right, but you kept referring to it as a protest that got out of control, comparing it to a BLM protest that turns into a riot. I don't think one should need to explain why that's a bad comparison.

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This Wuakesha attack fucking sucks.

Hit and run. 2 people dead. 11 children and 12 adults in the hospital. From what people have gathered, it seems like a repeat offender did it.

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https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/11/more-people-have-died-of-covid-this-year-than-last/


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Uncommon to the Libs, maybe.

...no, SEP is right. it's definitely an uncommon stance among leftists, not "the libs."

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This far removed, can we all agree it was funny at least?

"funny" is the last word i'd use to describe 1/6. i thought it was scary as fuck.

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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/11/more-people-have-died-of-covid-this-year-than-last/

Oh this has been a big anti-vaccine/right wing misinformation point these last couple weeks. It intentionally ignores that it is still mostly due to the surge that started at the end of 2020, which happened to be the peak of the pandemic in the US.

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And the leftist media is openly supporting it because a black guy did it out of revenge.

what leftist media are you referring to

I would love to see even one example of this

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there's some blue checkmarks making jokes about it technically and it probably wouldn't be hard to find a journo or two in there, but i wouldn't call that support. jokes being made would be 'oh guess the driver will call it self defense!' type of things.

i don't think it's fully confirmed who he is but last i saw it was 2 dead, 40 injured, and that was some 6 hours ago so uh... yeah. car zipped right through the christmas parade. if people are right on who it is, career criminal who's out on bail. some statements were made about it being connected to a knife fight but nobody really knows what's going on or why it happened.


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StealThisSheen posted...

What

Atleast a dozen firearms were seized, many forms of rope/ties/etc., several tasers/stun guns, chemical sprays, molotov cocktails, etc.

Dont forget the bombs.

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checking in for the Rittenhouse talk

I didn't follow the trial as it played out, but I watched several hours of it after the verdict came out. I didn't know any of the alleged details of the story going into the trial, I just knew he'd been acquitted, basically.

Thoughts:

Wow, I'm embarrassed for the prosecutor who cross-examined Rittenhouse. Binger, right? He was asking loaded questions, being manipulative, blatantly posturing for the jury, getting sidetracked from the main point any time he saw a chance to throw shade, obviously not seeking actual truth at all in his approach. It reeked. I probably could have just watched that single interrogation and guessed the verdict. When the judge sent the jury out of the room so he could yell at Binger for throwing shade on the defendant for exercising their right to remain silent - yikes.

The defense attorney in his closing statement was thorough and more importantly, seemingly honest. I have no trouble believing he's there fighting the good fight for the right reasons, in an area he cares about. I mean, maybe that's just a trick you learn after decades as a defense attorney, but still. You could follow along with his reasoning, and everything gelled and made sense when he spoke, which is the total opposite of how I would describe the prosecutor.

It's clear that there's tons of false information and headlines out there and people on social media are outraged. Plenty of these people will continue to hold their unfounded beliefs without checking any facts so that they don't have to give up their precious rage they're so addicted to. Probably best to just avoid them.

Did Kyle Rittenhouse make several poor choices that day? Yes.
Did the prosecution prove beyond reasonable doubt that Kyle Rittenhouse acted outside the privilege of self defense in the state of Wisconsin? No. Probably the opposite - they actually did a better job proving the trial was a total sham on their part.

oh yeah can we talk about how cringeworthy the part about first person shooters was? I was dying on the inside during that. Then Rittenhouse not even knowing much about them was just lol

If you want to watch some really damning stuff from the Prosecutors, watch the Nathan DeBruin direct and cross examination. Just completely exposed that they tried to get him to change his statement to help their case and that this wasn't a fair trial by any means.

It just shows they were trying to make a career off of trying to put Kyle in prison for life when they knew he was innocent of the charges from the investigation phase, and did everything they could to withhold information and keep key witnesses (both Zaminiski's) from appearing. Not to mention they outright lied in the opening statement that Kyle was chasing Rosenbaum and that video evidence would show that.

Prosecutors are not good people. They're supposed to seek the truth in a criminal trial to make sure our law system is fair, and they do anything but. It should be frankly alarming that the Prosecution did everything they did on live TV and the media isn't saying a god damn word about it. Because this is what they do constantly when cameras aren't tuned on them, just to a lesser degree because they aren't as desperate to win a case like this.

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You don't understand.
Everyone takes a beating sometime.

Though if you're facing someone who's teeny like a 5'3 guy that doesn't even count. He couldn't beat a child if he tried.

Could rape them though. Good to have left that out of the trial but once you know his past any sympathy that could exist flies out the window.

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more people died at fuckin astroworld than on the "insurrection" lol

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ExThaNemesis posted...

more people died at fuckin astroworld than on the "insurrection" lol

So?

Are you would saying you would allow democracy to be overthrown just as long as nobody dies in the process?

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extha with the expected garbage take

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Bloodless Coups are ok now!

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1/6 was one of the most blatantly horrific days in the history if American democracy, and there's really no excuse for the stupidity or lack of ethics required to try and downplay it.

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Pretty sure the people at Astroworld didnt plan to do harm
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We should remember how okay people are with bloodless coups the next time the Republicans gain power.

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htaeD posted...

Pretty sure the people at Astroworld didnt plan to do harm

I mean this is actually debatable. Not the ground level but higher up, specifically Travis Scott. He's catching shit because he's explicitly pushed for these reckless situations in the first place where the risk and harm is part of the show he wants.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

If you want to watch some really damning stuff from the Prosecutors, watch the Nathan DeBruin direct and cross examination.

Just watched that one, and...yeah. Again - totally embarrassing for the prosecutor. Trying so hard to make the amateur journalist trip up and contradict himself, actively twisting his words, blatant misdirection and sudden change of topic when he whiffs with a point. It's ugly.

Oh yeah I liked how he resorted to ad hominem attacks trying to make the journalist look like he only came to court as a means of getting exposure for his photography. Meanwhile the poor guy is actively battling anxiety on the stand.

Kinglicious posted...

I mean this is actually debatable. Not the ground level but higher up, specifically Travis Scott. He's catching shit because he's explicitly pushed for these reckless situations in the first place where the risk and harm is part of the show he wants.

This is yet another situation where people are looking to put the blame on one person as a substitute for a larger issue. Talking shit and as a hype man and performer is an established thing in music, especially live music, and not just in rap but in rock and metal which he's lifting from. Huge stretch to prove he is actually inciting real violence, but then again our legal system is a joke so whatever.

Which isn't to same he has no blame - he and his company were event organizers. The whole debacle was an organization failure and should rightfully be blamed on them, as well as Live Nation and the venue organizers who deliberately overbooked the place and skimped on safety precautions in the name of making a quick buck. All stuff people want to overlook in favor of complaining about inviting violence which is not at all what actually happened.

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Dancedreamer posted...

We should remember how okay people are with bloodless coups the next time the Republicans gain power.

Well all remember it when President Trump/Tulsi order the military to shoot insurrectionists when the DC protests against his law abolishing schools get too violent and are corralled into a Federal building.

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Oh come on.

The guy who ran over people in Waukesha was apparently out in bail for running over a woman after they had an argument.

What the fuck.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Well all remember it when President Trump/Tulsi order the military to shoot insurrectionists when the DC protests against his law abolishing schools get too violent and are corralled into a Federal building.

Conservatives don't need an excuse to order the killing of protesters.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Oh come on.

The guy who ran over people in Waukesha was apparently out in bail for running over a woman after they had an argument.

What the fuck.

He's also talked about how to get away with running over people too.

If nothing else, the man is experienced at this task.

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There's criticism now for how low his bail was after being arrested for such violent crimes. I believe it was only $1,000. Apparently, it wasn't supposed to be that low and an internal review is in progress.

As if anyone needed a reminder of how much a joke the criminal justice system is.

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Kenri posted...

Conservatives don't need an excuse to order the killing of protesters.

Conservatism has nothing to do with, Democrats and Republicans alike have no qualms sending in armed cops.

edit: I didnt see who made the post, you probably meant what I said.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Well all remember it when President Trump/Tulsi order the military to shoot insurrectionists when the DC protests against his law abolishing schools get too violent and are corralled into a Federal building.

They. Planned. It. Out.

Not well, and not everybody, but the fact you keep dismissing this and/or ignoring it to paint them all as just wayward protestors is, frankly, disgusting.

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guffguy89 posted...

There's criticism now for how low his bail was after being arrested for such violent crimes. I believe it was only $1,000. Apparently, it wasn't supposed to be that low and an internal review is in progress.

As if anyone needed a reminder of how much a joke the criminal justice system is.

I don't know as much about bail but I know it's a serious issue.

It's usually discussed as being too expensive for people who aren't wealthy to afford, but you have issues like this where people play fast and loose with the rules. The issue is that it's usually subjective, and up to the DA's office. And it's not as easy as finding a way to make them have more static amounts and requires a major undertaking to improve.

So it'll be another thing that will never improve. Nihilism!

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Little to free bail if nonviolent.
Medium to no bail option if violent, scale to history and risk.

I think that's the general ideal. Here, if that were the rule he'd have been in jail considering his long rap sheet and high risk considering that last time, the $1000 bond for running someone over, was his third charge in under 2 years, including domestic abuse. Ain't perfect and there's a lot of wiggle room but still.

Pretty sure this is the article everyone's using:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2021/11/22/suspect-waukesha-parade-incident-identified-darrell-brooks-jr/8717524002/

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HashtagSEP posted...

Not well, and not everybody

A tiny fraction had those plans, which is my entire point. I literally said those with proof of intent should be treated more harshly.

The entire reason I see this differently than you is because I see how easily this exact logic can backfire AND be used against us.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A tiny fraction had those plans, which is my entire point. I literally said those with proof of intent should be treated more harshly.

The entire reason I see this differently than you is because I see how easily this exact logic can backfire AND be used against us.

Mr "they are going to do that anyway" doesnt care when it is a group of white people.

Leafeon13N posted...

Mr "they are going to do that anyway" doesnt care when it is a group of white people.

LOL, oh red

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A tiny fraction had those plans, which is my entire point. I literally said those with proof of intent should be treated more harshly.

The entire reason I see this differently than you is because I see how easily this exact logic can backfire AND be used against us.

So you agree that we should keep the filibuster in place? Because I personally don't and think it's a stupid rule that we should get rid of, even though it would potentially backfire and work against us later.

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Inviso posted...

So you agree that we should keep the filibuster in place? Because I personally don't and think it's a stupid rule that we should get rid of, even though it would potentially backfire and work against us later.

No, because the idea is you abolish the filibuster and then do a ton of good shit the right cant undo without tanking themselves.


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I mean I'm not too worried about the precedent of arresting people for violently overrunning the Capitol being "used against us." That's not something we should be doing!

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Tony, you'd make a great moderate liberal, because "We shouldn't do this because they may use it against us later" is pretty much their motto.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

No, because the idea is you abolish the filibuster and then do a ton of good shit the right cant undo without tanking themselves.

Also this is naive as fuck. I think the right have been proving very well it's impossible to tank themselves.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Tony, you'd make a great moderate liberal, because "We shouldn't do this because they may use it against us later" is pretty much their motto.

Also this is naive as fuck. I think the right have been proving very well it's impossible to tank themselves.

Just make sure you have some pearls handy that you can clutch when the Democrats avoid doing something controversial only for the Republicans to do it anyways and not get punished for it.

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Free bail if nonviolent
Free bail or no bail if violent, scale to history or risk

All or nothing.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Just make sure you have some pearls handy that you can clutch when the Democrats avoid doing something controversial only for the Republicans to do it anyways and not get punished for it.

To modify what our heroic President Nixon said a bit, if a Republican does it, that means that it is not wrong.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I mean I'm not too worried about the precedent of arresting people for violently overrunning the Capitol being "used against us." That's not something we should be doing!

yeah, this.

if people on "my side" think violently overthrowing the government is a good idea, i should probably question why i'm on this side in the first place.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Also this is naive as fuck. I think the right have been proving very well it's impossible to tank themselves.

Dont Ask Dont Tell, gay marriage, state legalizations, Obamacare. All things that they riled up the hogs about, and when the rubber met the road, they balked on.

McCain took the heat, but if they wanted it gone they could have done it.

The reason they didnt do those things is simple, the actual benefit of repeal they can point to is negligible, while the downside is blatant and directly affects people.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Tony, you'd make a great moderate liberal, because "We shouldn't do this because they may use it against us later" is pretty much their motto.

Also thats not what this is at all.

LOL, I dont believe in punishing the many for the actions of the few, you should know by now it takes a lot more than trespassing for me to be ok with supporting our prison industrial complex, and triply so when their leaders entire stance is theyre out to get you!

Give them 1000 hours of monitored community service, turn their mistake into a public good. Thats what I want.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

trespassing

Context Matters.

They weren't in a high school gymnasium after hours.

They were in the fucking Capitol Building while an integral part of democracy was under way during a joint session of Congress.

.

If someone is too stupid or uninformed that they could be fooled into believing that what they were doing was not substantially different than Larping in a park then I'm afraid they deserve to be severely punishing for what WAS a severe crime.

This level of absolution makes me suspect that Tony knows someone who was an "innocent trespassers" in the attack. I really can't wrap my head around any other explanation or reason to defend what happened so vehemently.

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