Current Events > How come trans topics always get wild?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It is hard for people to understand that someone can be born in the wrong body or have a gender identity that is different than what is expressed physically.

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dj1200 posted...

It is hard for people to understand that someone can be born in the wrong body or have a gender identity that is different than what is expressed physically.

i have a theory about this. cis men, for example, who try to empathize, try to imagine what their life would be like as a trans woman. but that's backwards. they should be trying to understand what trans men go through.

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Medussa posted...

i have a theory about this. cis men, for example, who try to empathize, try to imagine what their life would be like as a trans woman. but that's backwards. they should be trying to understand what trans men go through.

Seriously. Back when I was still an egg trying to convince myself this man business would totally work for me if I just tried hard enough, my college friend came out to me (theyre non-binary) and through them I came into contact with trans men. These dudes make joyous Facebook posts about having to shave their faces (or growing out their first mustaches/beards) and about how some rando in a deli called them buddy or sir or whatever random masc address people use. One was super jealous of me making out with one of my friends friends(she liked what she saw, and she came to get it lol. I was only too happy to oblige).
Like, its a bit like looking through a funhouse mirror for me, the trans woman, who feels the exact opposite way, but they take such joy in even the most mundane masculine things, its adorable. Because in becoming men, they become alive. Ive only just started my own transition and becoming feminine is the same way for me. I got my legs waxed earlier this week, and theyre so smooth now and I finally feel like theyre MINE!
But Im rambling now. I dont need to say how I feel about people who would deny us life.

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Whoever posted on 52 and 53 must have me blocked. Weird, I wonder what I did.

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yutterh posted...

Whoever posted on 52 and 53 must have me blocked. Weird, I wonder what I did.

I think that's Medussa at 52.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Seriously. Back when I was still an egg trying to convince myself this man business would totally work for me if I just tried hard enough, my college friend came out to me (theyre non-binary) and through them I came into contact with trans men. These dudes make joyous Facebook posts about having to shave their faces (or growing out their first mustaches/beards) and about how some rando in a deli called them buddy or sir or whatever random masc address people use. One was super jealous of me making out with one of my friends friends(she liked what she saw, and she came to get it lol. I was only too happy to oblige).
Like, its a bit like looking through a funhouse mirror for me, the trans woman, who feels the exact opposite way, but they take such joy in even the most mundane masculine things, its adorable. Because in becoming men, they become alive. Ive only just started my own transition and becoming feminine is the same way for me. I got my legs waxed earlier this week, and theyre so smooth now and I finally feel like theyre MINE!
But Im rambling now. I dont need to say how I feel about people who would deny us life.

That's good for you! I'm honestly happy hearing positive stories like this. Hopefully things keep going smoothly for you as you continue the transition! :D
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Because of assholes, and usually there's both from each side. You'll have genuinely transphobic people make ignorant drive by comments occasionally and will call trans people by the pronoun they don't identify themselves as, and then some of the pro trans really pushing their beliefs and throw baseless accusations of when people don't agree with them. It doesn't happen in every topic though.

The vast majority of people here are pro trans


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Because of people with no self control or respect.

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Arcanine2009 posted...

Because of assholes, and usually there's both from each side. You'll have genuinely transphobic people make ignorant drive by comments occasionally and will call trans people by the pronoun they don't identify themselves as, and then some of the pro trans really pushing their beliefs and throw baseless accusations of when people don't agree with them. It doesn't happen in every topic though.

The vast majority of people here are pro trans

Only one side routinely gets ridiculed, beaten, and/or murdered for existing. This is why I have little patience for people who want to try and tone police the oppressed.
In fact, there's a song that's good for this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtV8puRd38

Kim is herself a trans woman, of course, though she chafes at being identified that way. It's hard to be trans, even when you're (somewhat) famous and presumably well-off so imagine being poor and/or black while being trans. I'm very lucky in being a middle class white person whose family is mostly well-educated and liberal, and it almost certainly holds her back. Most of her music is bubble gum pop, but this is...pure trans lol. "Always knew I was trouble." "Never was who I was supposed to be." To exist in the closet is to cry without feeling, try without ever winning, to die without really living. And she speaks for me when she sings "If I go down I'll see you in Hell". We gonna have the best parties in Hell.

It's funny, really. I'm in a good mood and drinking good booze, so let me ramble a little: I've been on hormones three months now. The biggest changes are that my nipples are sensitive and kind of sore, my upper body strength has gone down the drain, I feel things stronger(I literally cried the night before I left Oregon visiting my friend, then cried some more driving to the airport. Never used to cry), and my orgasms are....well, yeah. Fun fact: although the testicles hate oestrogens and shrink up quick(obviously. mine are way tiny already), the penis will generally remain functional as long as you...use it. Oh yeah, and since my estrogen dose got upped, my moods have gotten pretty unstable. I'll probably randomly feel awful soon-ish. Progesterone(which I'm hoping to start soon) is the one that actually offers mood stability, so that will be nice it also accelerates fat redistribution and promotes.....erectile function? Yep!

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Because being trans is very controversial.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

It's funny, really. I'm in a good mood and drinking good booze, so let me ramble a little: I've been on hormones three months now.

Congrats, thats awesome

AirFresh posted...

Trans acceptance has taken a very aggressive stance usually with mocking so people against it also get heated. I understand both sides but am 100% with the transgendered people because it is frustrating that in 2021 people are still being bigoted. That being said the aggressive tone is going to foster hate, it's just how it is in society. Gay acceptance for example is still being questioned despite it being common place for people to just go "Yeah it's a normal human thing".

Give it about 5-10 years and it won't be as heated anymore and just mellow out.

It will take a lot longer than that.

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Lots of people hate trans people and want us to disappear from their view. Even ones who say they support us only mean when we're not in their way and are okay with them discriminating against us in ways other than just outright banning us from society.

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VioletMassacre posted...

I'd say there are four sides.. Corners? The trans and whatever people, the actual hateful people, those that aren't trans but totally for it, and those that are accepting but doesn't really understand it.

I'll be honest and say I don't really get the two non-binary people I know. I feel pretty much like a girl, and I understand that gender is a spectrum, but it boggles my mind that your place on the spectrum may just...shift and change day-to-day, and I'm amazed at the boldness and confidence it takes to just reject such things entirely.
I came out to my non-binary coworker(different from the friend, who is one of my besties), in part because they complained to me that they hated how their new coworkers treat them like a woman(they're AFAB- "assigned female at birth"), and I responded with, "I know how you feel." I wanted them to know I *genuinely* understood what they felt. It pains me especially when (other) women treat me like a man (but, then...how can I blame them? it'll be a few months yet before I really look like...not a man lol. It doesn't help that I'm attracted to them, of course).

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

Honestly?

At least on CE, its because people who are in support of transgender folk are extremely belligerent, self-righteous, and naive to the mindset of others. Like mentioned, that gunplaya person is a prime example.

You obviously have trolls. But they are pretty transparent to spot.

But 9 times out of 10, someone who isnt completely caught up on the transgender movement gets their character attacked relentlessly, and any defending is met with gaslighting.

Transgender topics here also have the most percentage for the Research that on your own rebuttals.

I honestly dont see blatant bigotry go unmoderated. Its possible I dont see the right topics. But no topic besides Calyspo based topics get nearly as heated. And I think the defensive nature of things cultivate it.

This is the real answer right here pretty much. Not surprised in the least that it was completely ignored by the people here.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

Only one side routinely gets ridiculed, beaten, and/or murdered for existing. This is why I have little patience for people who want to try and tone police the oppressed.
In fact, there's a song that's good for this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtV8puRd38

Kim is herself a trans woman, of course, though she chafes at being identified that way. It's hard to be trans, even when you're (somewhat) famous and presumably well-off so imagine being poor and/or black while being trans. I'm very lucky in being a middle class white person whose family is mostly well-educated and liberal, and it almost certainly holds her back. Most of her music is bubble gum pop, but this is...pure trans lol. "Always knew I was trouble." "Never was who I was supposed to be." To exist in the closet is to cry without feeling, try without ever winning, to die without really living. And she speaks for me when she sings "If I go down I'll see you in Hell". We gonna have the best parties in Hell.

It's funny, really. I'm in a good mood and drinking good booze, so let me ramble a little: I've been on hormones three months now. The biggest changes are that my nipples are sensitive and kind of sore, my upper body strength has gone down the drain, I feel things stronger(I literally cried the night before I left Oregon visiting my friend, then cried some more driving to the airport. Never used to cry), and my orgasms are....well, yeah. Fun fact: although the testicles hate oestrogens and shrink up quick(obviously. mine are way tiny already), the penis will generally remain functional as long as you...use it. Oh yeah, and since my estrogen dose got upped, my moods have gotten pretty unstable. I'll probably randomly feel awful soon-ish. Progesterone(which I'm hoping to start soon) is the one that actually offers mood stability, so that will be nice it also accelerates fat redistribution and promotes.....erectile function? Yep!

I don't think anybody here wishes trans people to die here. At least it's impossible to know as nobody has been overt about it (not to my knowledge). I'm glad that most people are tolerant. Also don't think there are any terfs here.

Now what does annoy me from a few members of the pro trans people who are very self righteous and throw "transphobe" at a man if they say they prefer a cisgender women. That doesn't help the transgender community at all. There should never be an argument over one's personal sexual preferences.

These issues doesn't happen that often in the trans topics we have had here in CE. Most of the flame wars go around a person or few who have attacked someone's character and has nothing to to with them being trans.

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Because this board is full of Trolls and Bigots.

So people make a lot of topics in bad faith to get a reaction. Then the actual racists/transphobes come in.

Starts a cycle of modding. We get nowhere. I once had a question about trans people and a lot of actual trans people came in and answered very politely.

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Let me share just one more thing: I want to do voice training(my therapist, who happens to be a handsome trans dude, actually brought it up last session too), because...you know, my current voice would mean I would have the following phone conversation forever:
Me: "Hi, how are you?"
Stranger: *dubious*"Is this [female name] speaking?"
Me: "Haha, yeah, I know I don't sound like a [true name]"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfCS01MkbIY
This woman...this woman is some kind of auditory sorceress. I also have a massive crush on her because she's ridiculously beautiful. I have a pitch tracker on my phone now. I'll probably seek professional assistance, but this gives me faith plus the fact that I have actual evidence I can, y'know, actually hit a good feminine pitch here and there already I *can* modify (albeit with lots of time, effort, and patience) my deep ass voice enough that I can naturally sound like a woman, and that revelation makes me want to cry. Even if I never sound as good as this lady!

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Because there are pretty extreme opinions on both sides and plenty of trolls to stir the pot

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Honestly, I dont think Ill ever understand things from a transgender perspective. Ive tried to put myself in a transgender persons shoes but in the end, theres always this disconnect, because Ive only ever felt that Im a man because I was born with a mans body, and that almost everything else is a social construct. I know itd be difficult for me to have a transgender SO because we view others through the lens of our own experiences and thats hard to override.

I support transgender individuals in being who they are and having equal rights and living free of worry and happy like everyone else, and because of this it pains me to say that I know Ill never really understand them.

So, to answer the OPs question from my side, I know that a lot of people hold bigoted views which stem from dismissing what they cant understand or the way they were raised or simply their temperament, etc. Many more though, I feel, are like me, who know theyll never understand transgender people, who know it would be difficult to have a transgender SO, but who still see transgender people as equals and wish them the best.

I think that a lot of transgender topics end up being nasty because when cisgender people say things out of ignorance (not because we wont understand, but because we cant understand) or when we say we arent interested in dating transgender people, transgender people feel like its an attack on who they are. That, at least, I do understand. Transgender people have had a rough lot in life and been attacked from so many different angles its liable to make anyone defensive.

The issue is, when you act on that and turn bitterness toward someone like me who doesnt bear you any ill will, who cares about and supports you and your fight, but who ultimately cant understand you because Im not wired the same as you are; when you call someone like me a bigot, youre attacking who I am.

This is why it always ends in vitriol and flaming. Because both sides who, on this site specifically, should be allies, end up feeling like the opposite side is attacking them for being the person they are.

AirFresh posted...

I did not see that one. That's just ridiculous and no adoption is not the same thing, I've noticed that being an argument lately.

It's doubly ridiculous because it doesn't only exclude transwomen, but also women who are unable to have children for medical reasons.

I mean, you could say transwomen can't have children for medical reasons too, I guess, so that brings them up to par there. Then having your stance be 'will only date who I can procreate with' (and mind you this is a perfectly valid stance) isn't even transphobic in the slightest because transwomen are being categorically excluded for the same reason some cis women would be.

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nothanks1 posted...

then somewhere in the middle you have people who go something like 'I don't really disagree with transpeople but i don't think I could date one' are being bombarded by the radicals on the pro-trans

This part is mostly what I saw happening in every trans topic from a few months ago. Just devolved into lots of name calling. I started avoiding these topics after that. That stuff solves nothing.

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Crescente posted...

They always blow up/get modded/people getting really heated. What is up with this kind of topic that just generates so much heat?

You know why TC.

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Heartomaton posted...

Very touchy subject for people who like to discriminate against others for things they can't help.

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Ilishe posted...

It's doubly ridiculous because it doesn't only exclude transwomen, but also women who are unable to have children for medical reasons.

I mean, you could say transwomen can't have children for medical reasons too, I guess, so that brings them up to par there. Then having your stance be 'will only date who I can procreate with' (and mind you this is a perfectly valid stance) isn't even transphobic in the slightest because transwomen are being categorically excluded for the same reason some cis women would be.

I even explained this, and I was STILL called a bigot. I'm so sorry that I want children of my own flesh and blood with a woman I love.

It isn't a situation of if they are transgender or not. It's just my ideal relationship. It's not bigoted, not transphobic, and calling me such because of that doesn't help anyone.
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Because this site has a ton of transphobia

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