Current Events > The Office is quite infuriating to watch.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The British version could be misanthropic because it was only 12 episodes long. No one would put up with David Brent for 200 episodes.

Could someone explain Angela's horrible cheating on Andy with Dwight thing?

Like... why not just stop dating Andy? Why continue to do that? She's always been shown to be a bit of a grump, but this is a different kind of assholery not related to being a sourpuss. It's a whole nother level

I mean did they just do it to make Andy a more sympathetic character after his initial annoying debut?
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saspa posted...

Could someone explain Angela's horrible cheating on Andy with Dwight thing?

Like... why not just stop dating Andy? Why continue to do that? She's always been shown to be a bit of a grump, but this is a different kind of assholery not related to being a sourpuss. It's a whole nother level

I mean did they just do it to make Andy a more sympathetic character after his initial annoying debut?

She's just a selfish person. She kept her one cat alive way past the point where it should be because she wanted it alive. She dated a state senator and then would constantly tell everyone about how important she is as a state senator's wife. Dwight and Andy isn't even the first time she let two men fight over her. She became pregnant buddies with Pam and seemed to almost exclusively talk down to her or highlight the fact that she was so thin in comparison.

That's just always how she's been.

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I get that she was angry at Dwight for killing her cat and so dated Andy to get back at him initially, but then she was constantly cheating on Andy with Dwight, so it's like...?

Also is that what was happening with the cat, she was forcefully keeping it alive? I thought it was meant to show how Dwight had euthanizing trigger finger and was that type of person.
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Shes also a mega christian and cares a lot about the status quo and keeping up appearances. Having an affair was fine until people knew about it, and then it had to be resolved somehow (feudally, and hilariously)

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Huh it took 5 seasons to introduce Holly. I recognize her, she's the likable character from The Wire who was too good for Mcnulty and didn't deserve his philandering. And she's extremely likable here. It took until her presence to make Michael go from annoying to "somewhat tolerable" to actually likable.
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saspa posted...

Also is that what was happening with the cat, she was forcefully keeping it alive? I thought it was meant to show how Dwight had euthanizing trigger finger and was that type of person.

It's a bit of both. Dwight was in the wrong for doing it without telling her and then lying about it, but if you go back and watch the scene where she's giving Dwight all these instructions it's clear her cat had like... a dozen crippling illnisses and was probably in a state of constant sedation or suffering because Angela couldn't let the cat go.

EDIT: Here's the scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lAcQcN05-s

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Could people perchance be confusing Dwight with his cousin Moses on the beet farm regarding the mentally challenged theory? Although even he seems also just weird. Well, a little bit of column a, little bit of column b
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I was gonna say it's weird that the show gets so much better in the later seasons or gets better as it goes along, but then I realized it makes sense because the show was so bad with its cringe humor at the beginning that it had nowhere to go but up.
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Oh wow I forgot there wasn't just one but two The Wire alumni, Charles Minor was on The Wire as well

Painful to see Jim struggle so much with him, but must be very cathartic for all the supposed Jim haters.
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Ok I no longer think it's just a strong fan theory, I think the series overtly shows that the management at Dunder Mifflin are clueless as hell. I mean yeah you could say that simply promoting Michael to manager was evidence enough from the very first episode, but as the show goes on it truly reveals just how ineffectual and incompetent they are. It feels weird to hate idris elba so much. And to be reminded of one's own ineffectual, kissass boss...
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pegusus123456 posted...

100% yes.

Oh ok never mind, there's literally an episode where Wallace is like "Michael, what are you doing right, your branch is selling the highest!"

These guys are incompetent incorporated
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PiOverlord posted...

There was wisdom in that episode, mixed with buffoonery. I always thought Michael's final quote to Ryan was the best about "Good managers don't fire people, they hire and inspire people" along with the never made a sale retort he did. It's not exactly true, you have to know when to fire people, but firing people will never make a company become #1. There are times when a board of directors brings on a ceo specifically for the purpose of firing people... but that's to save a company. You need a ceo that understands the business theory that colleges try to teach (some failing, while others giving good gems of knowledge here and there) mixed with their own intuition and innovation to truly build a thriving company. The problem is, especially on the ground-level of business, business theory is not the sole weapon to use. You need personality and charisma, which obviously Ryan lacked. You may know the steps a good business should take, but I think we all know many "good steps" to take in life, but fail because of third variables.

Of course, business-theory is important. The many missteps Dunder Mifflin took is why they went backrupt. They had a lot of charismatic guys, but obviously had an old mindset. It's also the cause of many of the problems Michael Scott faces as a manager when he does make major errors with the clients as a manager rather than as a salesperson.

Yeah if Michael simply adapted to new technology and incorporated it in sales, he'd probably be out on top.

They showed he was a bit computer illiterate (and maybe just general illiterate?) in the beginning but as the seasons go on he seems to be a lot more adept at technology than previously. Simply adding technology with his own showmanship would make for a winning combination
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I think it can be argued that failing in the technology department is partly why they're the most successful branch. If you're going to order online, why not use the big companies? DM's strength was that they were more personal.
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Michael Scott is the perfect example of the Peter Principle: every good worker will keep getting promoted until they reach a level they are no longer qualified for. He was clearly a really good salesman, but he's just too much of a narcissist/people-pleaser to be an effective manager

It's weird to think that Schur's first show was basically just an adaptation of a short lived British tv series, considering the guy went on to do 3 of the greatest comedies of all time: Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn 99, and The Good Place.

But I can see the influence of those later shows as the seasons go on.

I really like episodes that are just funny, without relying on cringe humor. Like the episode where there's a surplus in the budget and there's team new copier and team new chairs, with Michael just wanting a bonus for himself. Sure there's awkward moments, but not cringey. Just great humor especially from Jim and Pam. And Oscar, low-key has small lines here and there that really sell a scene
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Oh man there's no overlap between Karen and Erin, that's a shame. Imagine if Pam, Karen, Erin and Kelly were all in the same Office, that would be crazy.
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Derwood posted...

Michael Scott is the perfect example of the Peter Principle: every good worker will keep getting promoted until they reach a level they are no longer qualified for. He was clearly a really good salesman, but he's just too much of a narcissist/people-pleaser to be an effective manager

But he is an effective manager, no one gets why or how.

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KILBOTz posted...

But he is an effective manager, no one gets why or how.

My take is that despite (and perhaps because of) all of his antics, he keeps his employees engaged. They also have by far the most diligent workers of any of the branches, Michael manages to keep corporate at bay when they try to modernize everything too quickly, and in the Scranton branch it's about maintaining the legacy customers that were around since Michael was a young salesman. it's not nearly enough since the whole company is incompetent, of course.

also plot armor

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I agree. I think the fact he is excluded from much of the corporate stuff going on like as decisions are being made is also part of it. Like they (corporate) don't like interacting with him so they purposefully cut him out of stuff. But surprise surprise, paper isn't sexy or complicated. They are in an industry that the only thing that separates them from amazon is customer service, but Michael is the only one who gets it.

And Toby is Corporate incarnate, which is why he gets treated like shit by Michael, that is how he wants to treat them.

I also think the branch Jim went to was meant to represent every other branch out there, and they spent all their time playing video games there. While maybe something like that would happen for an episode, overall work was the primary focus at work for most of the employees.

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It's also possible the branch was successful in spite of Michael. I think Jim and Dwight were the top salesman in the company.
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pegusus123456 posted...

It's also possible the branch was successful in spite of Michael. I think Jim and Dwight were the top salesman in the company.

If we were really want to be fair about it... this is a part of it. Again, you could argue it was in spite of manager Michael, not salesman Michael. When he left, he had a loooot of clients that he gave to Andy, and while some were lost, they were able to keep quite a few I'm sure. Then you also factor in Jim and Dwight, and of course Scranton did well. They had perhaps the top 3 salesman in the company (Michael, Jim, Dwight), all great for their own reasons, and that was able to counter Michael's inefficiencies as a manager.

The best way we can see this is that Andy went into Michael's position, and the branch still did fine (as a matter of fact, didn't it even do better?). I don't even think Andy is that good of a manager tbh from what we seen, but Jim and Dwight on board would consistently help them.

Michael (and I suppose Andy for that matter) succeeded because I suppose he was unwilling to fire people which led to a consistent branch where you didn't have to put money into training new employees constantly (the other salesmen were good workers too). For instance, Pam was not too successful as a salesperson and probably was replaceable as a receptionist, but him keeping her around is what made it where Jim stayed around the entire time (albeit, it's not like Michael was doing it for specifically that purpose, it was just an unintended benefit of it), along with keeping people like Dwight around despite his many actions that would have led him to being tossed out the door. The family aspect was a thing that helped Dunder Mifflin out for sure, but I wouldn't say Michael would have been the type of manager you want on board in the long-term as his old staff leaves and he fails to continue to have that whole dynamic with the new workers.


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Remember that episode when Jim was like "say what you will about Michael, he would never leverage the company for a better job offer"

Welp, now Michael has done something even more selfish. Jim was talking to David Wallace about getting Michael promoted to manager of the entire region, and Jim would be promoted to Michael's old job. But Michael sabotaged it because of his insecurity and selfishness.

He really is a terrible person.
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Those rare moments where Michael is uncharacteristically competent though. And when they give him actually inspiring lines. I don't even care if it doesn't fit his usual idiocy, it just feels good to actually like Michael instead of look at the clock and wait for a scene with the other more fun characters.
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The office is hilarious.

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The episode where Michael leaves Jim in charge and Jim tries to consolidate all the birthdays into one party is one where we see Michael as a competent person. The end of that episode is perfect

This is legitimately a generational thing.

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Very_Unreliable posted...

This is legitimately a generational thing.

What "generation" do you think is pro or anti-Office?

Why would someone continue to watch a show that is infuriating to watch? Wouldn't time be better spent watching something more enjoyable?
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Anyone noticed this?

Erin makes Andy likable and endearing. Holly makes Michael likable and endearing. I find that interesting.

Meanwhile, Angela does not make Dwight any different, they both seem borderline toxic in a hilarious (but also not) way
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Thoughts on Ryan going from awkward nervous temp, to smug "thinks he's better than everyone" junior salesman, to douchey 80s style drug addicted wall street type executive, to blonde bowling alley employee, to glasses wearing hipstery persona?
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saspa posted...

Thoughts on Ryan going from awkward nervous temp, to smug "thinks he's better than everyone" junior salesman, to douchey 80s style drug addicted wall street type executive, to blonde bowling alley employee, to glasses wearing hipstery persona?

He was always awful in every form. My least favorite character on the show (and I also think he sucks in other shows/movies).

That said, he was one of the main writers for the show.

Just found out there are a whole bunch of deleted scenes, where do I find them all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYUyGZMJTSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXIBY2kzUA
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Derwood posted...

He was always awful in every form. My least favorite character on the show (and I also think he sucks in other shows/movies).

That said, he was one of the main writers for the show.

Apparently irl he and marc maron hate either other as well

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I think the drug-addled CEO was Ryan's true form. The rest of it was him just trying and failing to get back to that spot. I feel like you could make the argument that he was a sociopath.

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pegusus123456 posted...

I think the drug-addled CEO was Ryan's true form. The rest of it was him just trying and failing to get back to that spot. I feel like you could make the argument that he was a sociopath.

But was he always a sociopath? Or did the office and/or michael and/or kelly make him that way? Or that is to say, enable him
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saspa posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

I think the drug-addled CEO was Ryan's true form. The rest of it was him just trying and failing to get back to that spot. I feel like you could make the argument that he was a sociopath.

But was he always a sociopath? Or did the office and/or michael and/or kelly make him that way? Or that is to say, enable him

I think success made him that way. I viewed him like an overly sheltered child. Once he found success and money he went crazy. That, and I think the writers wanted a different version of him each season.
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ryan was damn unlikable even before he was an executive. was Novak writing his own character or did others botch it?

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berlyman101 posted...

ryan was damn unlikable even before he was an executive. was Novak writing his own character or did others botch it?

He was clearly not supposed to be likeable.

Weiland101 posted...

He was clearly not supposed to be likeable.

he was unlikable and also boring and that's worse on a comedy.

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He came in as the intern who Michael picked on, but there were a lot of hints that he was overqualified for the job and that he found Michael and Dunder-Mifflin to be a joke. The Business School episode is the first where he openly shits on DM in a way that really hurts Michael