Current Events > The Office is quite infuriating to watch.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I Love the Office!

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refmon posted...

Leslie Knope is incredibly annoying and she ends up almost never being in the wrong.

It's great with Michael since the show and characters constantly shit on him

But Leslie Knope's role in the show is more like Jim's than Michael's. It's obviously not a one to one comparison between either of them, but that's why she gets less mockery within the show.

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refmon posted...

Leslie Knope is incredibly annoying and she ends up almost never being in the wrong.

It's great with Michael since the show and characters constantly shit on him

Leslie is wrong a lot of the time and the show (and the characters) will always let her know it. Sometimes her impulsive decisions have gotten her in trouble and kept her from getting something she wanted. Even times when she does the right thing she doesn't get the thing she wants.

And besides her own staff, most people in and around Pawnee treat her like dirt.

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Zanzenburger posted...

Leslie is wrong a lot of the time and the show (and the characters) will always let her know it. Sometimes her impulsive decisions have gotten her in trouble and kept her from getting something she wanted. Even times when she does the right thing she doesn't get the thing she wants.

And besides her own staff, most people in and around Pawnee treat her like dirt.

Yeah, Ann constantly calls her out for being a steam roller and such.

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I was surprised to learn a lot of Office fans didn't care for Robert California much but I thought he was hilarious.

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I loved Robert California. The end of the season takes a dive, though.

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Is David Wallace sexist? He likes Michael for some reason, and dislikes Jan. He calls out Jan for being self-destructive and crazy, but is fine with Michael's antics and incompetence. Always wondered if it was something like that
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saspa posted...

Is David Wallace sexist? He likes Michael for some reason, and dislikes Jan. He calls out Jan for being self-destructive and crazy, but is fine with Michael's antics and incompetence. Always wondered if it was something like that

It's more that nobody actually expects anything of Michael. He's a useful idiot. Jan was always presented as competent and professional, but ultimately self serving and potentially grooming her secretary for sexual favors.

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Parks and Rec is The Office for people who needed the crusts cut off their sandwiches as kids.

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Michael on the other hand is more annoying in his whole hypocritical "dish it out but can't take it" mentality. He harasses Jan and other women constantly, but when Jan harasses him back and is sexually aggressive with him in turn, he's all upset about it. And yet continues to act immature and like a 4th grader despite being 40+.

His obtuse misogyny comes across way more aggravating than say, Todd Packer, who only appears in small doses and is so over the top in being awful that it comes back around as being almost funny, because everyone recognizes him as the worst. It's the same reason why It's Always Sunny cast is so great, like Dennis who's so damn terrible that it just works.
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s0nicfan posted...

It's more that nobody actually expects anything of Michael. He's a useful idiot. Jan was always presented as competent and professional, but ultimately self serving and potentially grooming her secretary for sexual favors.

Hmm yeah I could see it that way. A further defense would be that Jan is just a pencil pusher at the end of the day, which a lot of people see as useless, while Michael is established as actually a great salesman at one point or another, so he'd indeed be a lot useful than just some corporate executive.
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CRON posted...

Parks and Rec is The Office for people who needed the crusts cut off their sandwiches as kids.

Lol no

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I have not seen the office yet but I need to see a few episodes

Michael's branch is also somehow the most profitable, so it doesn't matter that he's kind of annoying in person.

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I just feel really bad for Jan. I think the intention of the show is to try and get us to hate her, but I instead feel sorry for her. I really think Michael broke her. I'm reminded of a bit Louis CK said about how "guys fuck things up, and girls are fucked up."
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Have you watched the Dinner Party episode?

Because Jan is definitely out of her fucking mind.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Have you watched the Dinner Party episode?

Because Jan is definitely out of her fucking mind.

Michael would turn the sanest person mad tbf.

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The Office is great. Jim and Pam are not awful. What a weird, cringey take on those characters.

Trump did make me see Michael differently, though, because they are so similar. "Has to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral" describes both of them

pegusus123456 posted...

Michael's branch is also somehow the most profitable, so it doesn't matter that he's kind of annoying in person.

He even says as much straight to the face of a board member at some point.

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dj1200 posted...

Michael was fucking hilarious. A classic Michael scene:

https://youtu.be/2SyWdbuEDNw

Is that the episode where Andy takes him out to Benihana? I kind of have a bone to pick with that episode. In the episode they're flirting with the waitress who for once isn't completely repulsed by Michael, and they invite them back to an office christmas party.

But then they show up with a completely different actress and I'm like erm what. I was so confused. Like they did a cast change within the very same episode or something? It's like they did It's Always Sunny's Lethal Weapon actor change before it was a thing (the whole switching who played Riggs and Murtough by Mac and Dennis)
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pegusus123456 posted...

Michael's branch is also somehow the most profitable, so it doesn't matter that he's kind of annoying in person.

I always figured he was the only person in management that took his job seriously in the slightest. like the branch jim went to, didnt they spend a lot of time as an office playing video games? i figured that was meant to be representative of every other branch but scranton.

I liked The Office alright when it first aired. I like some cringer humor but not a lot. I can't stream multiple episodes in a row or even watch too much in a week.

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It's not funny, and I've never understood the hype.

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saspa posted...

Is that the episode where Andy takes him out to Benihana? I kind of have a bone to pick with that episode. In the episode they're flirting with the waitress who for once isn't completely repulsed by Michael, and they invite them back to an office christmas party.

But then they show up with a completely different actress and I'm like erm what. I was so confused. Like they did a cast change within the very same episode or something? It's like they did It's Always Sunny's Lethal Weapon actor change before it was a thing (the whole switching who played Riggs and Murtough by Mac and Dennis)

she brought another waitress with her to the office

but that was part of the joke, Michael drew a line on one of them with a sharpie because he couldnt tell them apart

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You know what? There's an episode where Jim is working for the Stanford Branch and the manager there leverages his position for a better position at Staples, effectively leading to the closure of the branch. Jim shakes his head and goes "say what you will about Michael, but he would never do that"

And I'm like... yeah, obviously, because he's a buffoon and no big corporation would ever want him for such a position. Not because he's loyal. They wanted to show that Michael has noble qualities in that scene but he absolutely does not, he's the worst kind of spineless weasel. Like the time he kept a bonus check to himself instead of using the money to fix some problem at the office. He's selfish.

At least the Stanford manager was honest and said it straight to Jan's face that he was leaving Dunder Mifflin for a better job. Michael would have been the typical cowardly crybaby about it.
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saspa posted...

You know what? There's an episode where Jim is working for the Stanford Branch and the manager there leverages his position for a better position at Staples, effectively leading to the closure of the branch. Jim shakes his head and goes "say what you will about Michael, but he would never do that"

And I'm like... yeah, obviously, because he's a buffoon and no big corporation would ever want him for such a position. Not because he's loyal. They wanted to show that Michael has noble qualities in that scene but he absolutely does not, he's the worst kind of spineless weasel. Like the time he kept a bonus check to himself instead of using the money to fix some problem at the office. He's selfish.

At least the Stanford manager was honest and said it straight to Jan's face that he was leaving Dunder Mifflin for a better job. Michael would have been the typical cowardly crybaby about it.

Yeah, I hate when episodes try to make assholes who haven't earned being defended, seem like people worth defending.

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For people who complain about Jim and Pam I see it.

Dwight is a clearly mentally ill. So he should not get a pass for all the horrible stuff he does . But clearly Jim is a picking on a special person. And I just could never get behind that. I mean like if his jokes were on Ryan yeah.

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cjsdowg posted...

For people who complain about Jim and Pam I see it.

Dwight is a clearly mentally ill. So he should not get a pass for all the horrible stuff he does . But clearly Jim is a picking on a special person. And I just could never get behind that. I mean like if his jokes were on Ryan yeah.

Dwight is not mentally ill, what the fuck is this?

Also, if you think everyone in The Office is unlikeable, I would steer far clear of the British version

Don't get me wrong sometimes his pathetic crying is hilarious and I enjoy it. Like when he "accidentally" shares Jim's secret crush on Pam to everyone at the office and then begs Jim to forgive him and still remain his friend.

It's the perfect comedic blend of sad and annoying especially when Jim sighs and rolls his eyes in exasperation as Michael is about to cry and then comforts him while Michael is crying, as you would impatiently comfort a child that broke their favorite toy or something
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Michael isn't a saint, but let's not pretend that not buying a new copy machine because you're afraid of angering half your staff is on par with letting your company plan a restructuring solely around you and then getting a lot of people fired because you don't go through with it.

Derwood posted...

Dwight is not mentally ill, what the fuck is this?

Yeah, Dwight isn't mentally ill, he's just weird.

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Derwood posted...

Dwight is not mentally ill, what the fuck is this?

There's a weird fan theory that Dwight has a mental illness because of an episode in one of the last seasons where he finds a Zoloft or something in the office and is eventually consulted by Nelly because it's hers. People assume that the reason why he's so cheery and friendly in the last episodes is because after the time skip he had gone on meds.

It's all completely baseless speculation, but a lot of people just act like it's true.

Edit: people like the theory because, in part, it lets them retroactively say that Jim spends the entire show picking on a mentally ill person. It's just part of the jim and pam hate train.

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s0nicfan posted...

There's a weird fan theory that Dwight has a mental illness because of an episode in one of the last seasons where he finds a Zoloft or something in the office and is eventually consulted by Nelly because it's hers. People assume that the reason why he's so cheery and friendly in the last episodes is because after the time skip he had gone on meds.

It's all completely baseless speculation, but a lot of people just act like it's true.

Edit: people like the theory because, in part, it lets them retroactively say that Jim spends the entire show picking on a mentally ill person. It's just part of the jim and pam hate train.

tbf, even without it, Jim is just an office bully still. Dwight is plenty shitty himself, but Jim takes it to a whole other level.

I love the show, but none of them are good people and it'd be the absolute worst office to work in. All toxic, terrible people. But that's part of what makes it amusing to watch.

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Terrible people sit-coms are abundant, though. It's a formula that works.

Seinfeld
Arrested Development
Curb Your Enthusiasm
It's Always Sunny
Schitt's Creek

Just to name a few

s0nicfan posted...

Edit: people like the theory because, in part, it lets them retroactively say that Jim spends the entire show picking on a mentally ill person. It's just part of the jim and pam hate train.

Retroactively my ass. I always have said Jim was horrible person.

Dwight clearly has issues. He does not understand Social Cues, he fixes on simple things over and over. He has issues expressing empathy or understanding why people do the normal things that they do. When he is trying to be a good person does does things like murders a cat to put it out of hit's pain. There are fuck ton more issues with him then just being odd.

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Dwight is the top salesman in the company, he absolutely understands social cues. He's just weird as hell because his family is weird as hell. It's not autism, it's how he was brought up.
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I'm glad they went with the "weirdo" angle with Dwight instead of modeling him off of Gareth, who is simply an insufferable asshole who deserves all the bullying that Tim lays on him

Loved The Office. Season 2-5 are excellent. 1 isn't bad, but is rough around the edges. Robert California wasn't that bad. Season, iirc, 7 was rough. 8 wasn't strong, but the finale was well done.

I really liked Parks and Rec too, but sometimes it got a little... I don't know what the term is. But the characters would get into these dialogues where they seemed a little too sincere and basically just described the characteristics of one another. I remember Donna doing it a lot. It just seemed a little too overt, like the writers were telling me what to think of a character rather than showing me. "Because. You're not like that. You're the kind of person who" x, y, z. I'm in season 5 of Schitt's Creek, I think, and just noticed something similar in an episode I watched earlier this week.

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I low-key feel bad for Meredith. Does anyone else feel like she might have been just as cute/attractive as Pam 40 years ago, but the years left her bitter and alcoholic and maybe she ended up marrying her own Roy, someone not right for her, and she ended up with a kid and a divorce?
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How come Jim was afraid when Andy freaked out about having his stuff put in jello, when he wasn't afraid when Dwight freaks out about having his stuff in jello?

Especially since Dwight has weapons all around the office. Is Jim banking on the fact that Dwight would never actually hurt him with those weapons, while Andy would likely hurt someone if he ever found out about the location of the mace, nunchuks and sai Dwight keeps around the office?

Just wondering
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saspa posted...

How come Jim was afraid when Andy freaked out about having his stuff put in jello, when he wasn't afraid when Dwight freaks out about having his stuff in jello?

Especially since Dwight has weapons all around the office. Is Jim banking on the fact that Dwight would never actually hurt him with those weapons, while Andy would likely hurt someone if he ever found out about the location of the mace, nunchuks and sai Dwight keeps around the office?

Just wondering

Dwight never punched a hole through the wall


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I personally like Jim and Pam of course. But Jim turning down a big promotion at corporate nyc to go back to Scranton to be with Pam is not a good career decision. You don't get many good opportunities often.

Also it's ironic because Pam ends up going to new york anyway to study so if he'd taken the job, they'd be together there, him earning a probably high salary and her experiencing nyc opportunities at being an artist
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British version makes everyone unlikable but doesn't pussyfoot around it, American version always has to make them "rogues with a heart of gold" because they know millions of people project onto them.

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I wonder though, is the fact that they went with Ryan as the corporate guy an example of Dunder Mifflin and David Wallace's low-key incompetence? Or maybe not so low-key. They hired a 20 something guy who was a temp and gave him Jan's job when it was clear that it was a high-entry position? Even a mid-level entry position is too much for a guy who has never made a sale.
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saspa posted...

I wonder though, is the fact that they went with Ryan as the corporate guy an example of Dunder Mifflin and David Wallace's low-key incompetence?

100% yes.

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im pissed at how much they ruined Andy in the final season and turned him into a major asshole.

i mean, he was kind of a dick before but i started to like him more as the show progressed. then for some reason, they decided "hey, lets make him unlikeable again" on the final season...

The cringe humor is the appeal of The Office. It's just natural as someone else pointed out. Without Michael Scott, while the rest of the ensemble is funny... it kinda loses it's competitive edge over other sitcoms. It just becomes another sitcom, and even worse, I'd argue season 9 is a bad sitcom. The last few episodes are good, but I still wouldn't really call them hilarious like it was in the earlier seasons (albeit, I like series finales for giving closure and acting as a goodbye to us more than needing to be funny so I give it a pass).

Parks and Rec is a good show to me... but to me, it also was mainly a smirk or maybe a chuckle rather than me finding it really, really funny. There was a point in Parks and Rec where it honestly felt more like a feel-good show with comedy rather than a legit sitcom. The criticisms towards Michael, or even Jim and Pam make it evident that there's a large group of people that only accept stoic, snarky/suave but kind, or full-on-Dwight. If they don't fall into one of those groups, then people think that makes the show bad, despite the fact that characters that you want to root for but still find uncomfortable like Michael create a lot of unique jokes and situations. Not that those three groups are bad, I love Dwight for instance, it's just that a normal sitcom only includes those three archetypes whereas a great sitcom includes a much greater diversity.

For all the insults a character like Jim gets for being the goody-two-shoes, I think the Office unintentionally showed how Jim is a unique and great character as the "main protagonist/good guy" of the show compared to others when they brought in their own parody of him in Plop. Plop is a nice guy, one you'd expect as a main protagonist given a little more development, but he's far from a Jim. Jim actually had some spice to him, to the point where you did question if he was a bully in some ways or self-righteous in others.

Again, like Parks and Rec, but I do feel people who love that show and then come in to watch The Office and trash on it for its "annoying" characters more so than any group misunderstands that the dynamic doesn't have to be like Parks and Rec all the time. I partially blame people for heavily comparing the two as brother/sister shows, when they really have distinct tones for much of their respective series. This isn't me saying you can't dislike The Office, or that it's better than your show, and I understand this is starting to verge onto being an Office version of the Rick and Morty copypasta, but I just never understood why people are confused that people find it funny.

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thronedfire2 posted...

Dwight never punched a hole through the wall

but he almost set the building on fire tho with that failed fire safety drill... lol

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

im pissed at how much they ruined Andy in the final season and turned him into a major asshole.

i mean, he was kind of a dick before but i started to like him more as the show progressed. then for some reason, they decided "hey, lets make him unlikeable again" on the final season...

Yeah, season 9 had a lot of issues.

8 honestly I could see myself rewatching one day (usually I only watch 2-7) since it has its fair share of good stuff. 9 though, the finale sure, but everything else... yeahhhh.

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You know it's kinda weird. When I first watched those episodes I was still in college. But watching them now... see I too worked at a company in the sales section years ago, and I also never made a sale. Then in a bizarre twist of fate as I was being transferred to corporate branch to work in HR, I got a call from a client who was asking about prices and wanted to sign with me, to make a sale. It was so weird, it was literally on the last day as I was transferring from sales to HR.

The show's constant jokes at Ryan never making a sale kind of got me thinking about that.

And while Michael is an idiot, I do agree with him when he tells the college class that Ryan has never made a sale in his life, so what does he know about business. The thing with business theories in those classes is that they're just that, theories. Stuff written down after they saw an example of that happening in the world. Success in a business class doesn't translate to real world success. A lot of businessmen in the world have never taken anything even resembling a class and they are successful merchants and sellers and the formula for success isn't always tried and true.

Just some rambling I was thinking while watching the show. Before it was just "haha Ryan wanted to embarrass Michael and got owned instead" but now it's actually "I've lived this somewhat, this almost applies to me"
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There was wisdom in that episode, mixed with buffoonery. I always thought Michael's final quote to Ryan was the best about "Good managers don't fire people, they hire and inspire people" along with the never made a sale retort he did. It's not exactly true, you have to know when to fire people, but firing people will never make a company become #1. There are times when a board of directors brings on a ceo specifically for the purpose of firing people... but that's to save a company. You need a ceo that understands the business theory that colleges try to teach (some failing, while others giving good gems of knowledge here and there) mixed with their own intuition and innovation to truly build a thriving company. The problem is, especially on the ground-level of business, business theory is not the sole weapon to use. You need personality and charisma, which obviously Ryan lacked. You may know the steps a good business should take, but I think we all know many "good steps" to take in life, but fail because of third variables.

Of course, business-theory is important. The many missteps Dunder Mifflin took is why they went backrupt. They had a lot of charismatic guys, but obviously had an old mindset. It's also the cause of many of the problems Michael Scott faces as a manager when he does make major errors with the clients as a manager rather than as a salesperson.

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