Current Events > Yoda doesn't get enough blame for the fall of the Jedi Order (spoilers).

(+) Yeah! (+)

It was under his watch that the Jedi were basically made extinct. The Sith Master was within feet of him for YEARS and he failed to discover him. He had the chance to defeat Sidious 1v1, and failed. All this after learning the ways of the Force for over 700 years. In my opinion, Yoda is a failure. Thoughts?

considering the dark side clouded everyone's mind
If u blame the Jedi don't blame Yoda
Blame qui-gon instead

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Big_Nabendu posted...

considering the dark side clouded everyone's mind
If u blame the Jedi don't blame Yoda
Blame qui-gon instead

Qui gon did the right thing, the council failed him

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Not only did he fail and let all his disciples die, he's straight cracking jokes and acting a fool for the rest of his life like it didn't even weigh on him. Yoda is a bastard for sho.
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lilORANG posted...

he's straight cracking jokes and acting a fool for the rest of his life like it didn't even weigh on him.

....I swear some of you people haven't even watched the series you love to shitpost about

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yeh. Council messed up too. But it wasn't all Yoda.
Let's recruit a young boy who's too old for the Jedi. Hes the chosen one. And oh yeh. Let's rip him from his mom. And oh yeh. His hormones rage for a older woman. Oh yeh lets deny him those feelings. Oh yeh lets refuse his Jedi master rank.

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Big_Nabendu posted...

yeh. Council messed up too. But it wasn't all Yoda.
Let's recruit a young boy who's too old for the Jedi. Hes the chosen one. And oh yeh. Let's rip him from his mom. And oh yeh. His hormones rage for a older woman. Oh yeh lets deny him those feelings. Oh yeh lets refuse his Jedi master rank.

Biggest mistake was making the exception for his age, but never making any other allocations to help him adjust based on how his advanced entry age would affect him as a Jedi.

Sure you don't want to be seen giving the guy special treatment; except you already did and thus he is a unique case that cannot be treated like literally everyone else.

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Would anakin have been as strong if they brought his mother and allowed him to grow up as a regular kid but with jedi training?

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Would give even more blame to Mace Windu. Dude was a jerk.

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Yeah Yoda kinda sucks

LightningAce11 posted...

Would anakin have been as strong if they brought his mother and allowed him to grow up as a regular kid but with jedi training?

I don't see why not. But Jedi don't believe in emotional attachments like that.

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Luke was like a billion times older than dem "kids of the right age" and is considered one of the strongest jedis in the universe or whatever so yeah. Clearly the council didn't know wtf

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legendarylemur posted...

Luke was like a billion times older than dem "kids of the right age" and is considered one of the strongest jedis in the universe or whatever so yeah. Clearly the council didn't know wtf

A) Luke is great, and especially strong with the Force, but aside from force projection hes never done anything *that* crazy
B) Luke did almost fall to the Dark Side

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Wait until you realize Yoda basically did nothing the entirety of the PT.

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I thought that was why Yoda kind of self-exiled himself for like 20+ years.

Not to mention the Jedi are already basically a faction that's taking young kids in tune with the force away from their families and raising them to be emotionless soldiers in an invisible war.

Though its also worth mentioning that Palpatine was given total authority in the first movie, and kept it until Revenge of the Sith before dissolving the senate and making himself emperor, so everyone was really resting on their laurels on that one.

Yoda's exile makes no sense. Honestly none of this shit makes sense.

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I feel like the worst is when Anakin comes to him to seek guidance. Anakin looks stressed out and is telling Yoda how he sees premonitions of death and is so obviously bothered by it, but Yoda just goes "you gotta get over that".

I never liked the "Sidious was clouding their minds" excuse. Just makes Palpatine seem very OP and the Jedi seem like weak idiots. Sure, Sidious is a powerful if not the most powerful Sith, but being able to cloud several Jedi masters' minds all at the same time while he's off doing other stuff? I don't know.

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CyricZ posted...

Wait until you realize Yoda basically did nothing the entirety of the PT.

Bullshit.

He was busy fighting in the Clone Wars. The Jedi were spread so goddamn thin, what did you realistically expect him to do?

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Lies, over this interview is. Mickey rooney maybe?
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"Now that they're extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, defied. But if you strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure. Hypocrisy, hubris. At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader."

Big_Nabendu posted...

yeh. Council messed up too. But it wasn't all Yoda.
Let's recruit a young boy who's too old for the Jedi. Hes the chosen one. And oh yeh. Let's rip him from his mom. And oh yeh. His hormones rage for a older woman. Oh yeh lets deny him those feelings. Oh yeh lets refuse his Jedi master rank.

Oh and you know that Padawan of his? Lets go ahead and wrongly convict her of a crime and try to throw her in jail causing her to ragequit and leave the order entirely.
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https://i.imgur.com/IEQdEij.jpg

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I blame those sorry ass jedi that died in one swing that went with Windu.

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Wii_Shaker posted...

He was busy fighting in the Clone Wars. The Jedi were spread so goddamn thin, what did you realistically expect him to do?

Okay, after some research let me back down this a little.

My greater point is that Yoda really doesn't have much to do with the major narrative of the PT: Anakin's fall and rise of the Sith. His failure is of inaction and not being aware. Otherwise, he fights two battles on camera and they're draws, to say nothing of the pointless Battle of Kashyyyk. There is no character arc for him.

But for a while I thought Yoda and Anakin only had one scene together; his evaluation prior to the Battle of Naboo. I checked to make sure and I totally forgot he had one other scene in RotS, where he and Yoda discuss his dreams of Padme's death. It's about a minute long and it's summed up as "dude, people die all the time, it's a part of life". Not the worst bit of wisdom (which is his role in these stories), but ultimately just kind of flat because Anakin ignores it anyway.

Yoda had to fail, of course, because the Sith and the Empire had to rise. I think the greater problem is including Yoda in the PT at a "public" level at all, because it takes everything we know about his wisdom and sidelines it so that the dark side can rise without him even being prescient on the details or even seeking it out. As the topic says, Yoda sucks at this, if the PT is any indication.

But really as the text is given to us, I don't blame him any more than any other senior member of the Order, who were all just as useless.

I really feel that Yoda is better served as being a crazy hermit living on Dagobah, even through the PT. They could still have included him, but he'd be less involved in the major plot, and more of a brief training role for Anakin or even Obi-Wan (depending on how one might want to re-do the PT if they had the opportunity).

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Big_Nabendu posted...

yeh. Council messed up too. But it wasn't all Yoda.
Let's recruit a young boy who's too old for the Jedi. Hes the chosen one. And oh yeh. Let's rip him from his mom. And oh yeh. His hormones rage for a older woman. Oh yeh lets deny him those feelings. Oh yeh lets refuse his Jedi master rank.

I mean, sidious was already aware of the boys existence at the end of ep1. So there was nothing stopping him from just kidnapping Anakin not long after and raising him as a tool himself.

And in regards to Yoda losing his 1v1 against sidious.....the match was already over long before. Even if Yoda had won then what? Most of the jedi were dead by then, the entire clone army was still out to get them, became traitors to the republic so no political backing and were either disliked or unknown to the general populace at large.

The seeds for the jedis downfall were planted decades in advance when they overstepped their bounds and attempted to play galactic police.

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