Current Events > Do video game players have low standards for writing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

So, im watching a review of GTA San Andreas and while i love the game and its memorable cast of characters. The story itself is pretty meh. Like its ok but its not the stand out of the game. The reviewer is talking about how genius Rockstar is for certain aspects of the story.

The thing is that it wasnt. The twist in the game isnt very subtle. This ive seen from a lot of people too. Fallout 3 is another game where i see people talk about how good the story is. I like Fallout 3 and im a huge fan however the story isnt what made that game fun.

So is it just low standards?

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GTA:SA and Fallout 3 isnt exactly using the best examples.

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This generation definitely does

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No but we do recognize that we're playing a video game, not reading for the next book club meeting.

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The online-only push from developers did some damage to the consumers expectations, I think. The sudden lack of new JRPGs also forced gamers to play stuff like shooters and those souls games, so now people arent even expecting a good story.

DuranOfForcena posted...

>complains about low standards for writing in videogames
>box offices have been dominated by schlock like capeshit and jedishit for like a decade now

didn't see where i said they were good writing.

BloodMoon7 posted...

No but we do recognize that we're playing a video game, not reading for the next book club meeting.

True but i think throwing around the "genius" label to a game for its writing lets us examine the issue.


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Payzmaykr posted...

The online-only push from developers did some damage to the consumers expectations, I think. The sudden lack of new JRPGs also forced gamers to play stuff like shooters and those souls games, so now people arent even expecting a good story.

JRPGs are often the same way though

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DuranOfForcena posted...

>complains about low standards for writing in videogames
>box offices have been dominated by schlock like capeshit and jedishit for like a decade now

ya I think general audiences for any medium is fairly low...

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Yeah. Adam Sessler said that GTA V will be remembered as the works of Charles Dickens are remembered, or something like that. Ridiculous.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

yeah but videogames are always singled out for bad writing and gamers for having low standards for writing when all other forms of popular media have stuff that is just as bad, if not worse

No one calls Marvel movies genius writing though. They are entertaining movies that know how to tug at your heart strings from time to time.

Even people that watch them. However, its gamers that are calling the games genius.

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sutree posted...

Yeah. Adam Sessler said that GTA V will be remembered as the works of Charles Dickens are remembered, or something like that. Ridiculous.

Yeah it'll be way better remembered. All those Lamar videos will be around long after we go extinct.

Video games are rarely the best medium for storytelling.

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I4NRulez posted...

Fallout 3 is another game where i see people talk about how good the story is.

Who has ever said this

Background_Guy posted...

Who has ever said this

I see this a lot. Even on this board whenever the Fallout topics come up.

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Background_Guy posted...

Yeah it'll be way better remembered. All those Lamar videos will be around long after we go extinct.

The first communication aliens receive from us is telling them to get rid of that yee-yee-ass haircut.

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Video games just aren't in the same level as books, tv shows, and movies when it comes to storytelling.

Yes absolutely.

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Undertale has legitimately incredible writing, you guys are just cowards

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Movies are 2 hours and video games are 80, so it's not a fair comparison. But video games are more or less like cutting 80% of the dialogue out of a movie to make room for more action.

EnigmaticGale posted...

Undertale has legitimately incredible writing, you guys are just cowards

i don't think every game has bad writing. I think Red Dead 2 had some fantastic character development.

I feel like with video games especially people often over praise things.

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Joel95 posted...

Video games just aren't in the same level as books, tv shows, and movies when it comes to storytelling.

Its a hit or miss
But when they hit, they win by a landslide

No movie or book will ever be able to properly convey the story of, say, Axiom Verge, Celeste or Hollow Knight; player agency is a very important aspect of the experience

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have you ever played tetris? the writing sucks and everyone loves that game

fuming posted...

have you ever played tetris? the writing sucks and everyone loves that game

you just dont see how Tetris mirrors the rise and fall of the industrial revolution. tsk tsk


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absolutely, look at how many ppl on this board are apologists for the trails series when it has experienced a steep decline in writing lately

for something not niche, you can look at persona 5 and see the very same trend

Payzmaykr posted...

The online-only push from developers did some damage to the consumers expectations, I think. The sudden lack of new JRPGs also forced gamers to play stuff like shooters and those souls games, so now people arent even expecting a good story.

The average JRPG doesn't have a better story than the average of any other game.

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Yep

There's only a few games out there where the writing really wow'd me

Bioshock
Last of Us 1
Dark Souls
The Walking Dead telltale series (season 1)

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Xenogears has the greatest writing in video game history and puts many great books to shame

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Doe posted...

The average JRPG doesn't have a better story than the average of any other game.

I'd argue the average JRPG has a worse story than other games. They are dominated by childish anime tropes. Every so often a game like Radiant Historia shows up with some marvelous fucking writing but those are few and far in between.

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BignutzisBack posted...

Xenogears has the greatest writing in video game history and puts many great books to shame

The Aubrey de Selincourt translation of Herodotus shits on it

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Kinda. I noticed on /vrpg/ that the Trails of series is praised for writing, but literally it's just official gagdubbing nearly at the level of Ghost Stories. I'm wondering if people who tunnel vision on the genre have prevented themselves from consuming real literature.

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EnigmaticGale posted...

The Aubrey de Selincourt translation of Herodotus shits on it

you really need to name drop something that esoteric to claim some literature is better than xenogears?

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BignutzisBack posted...

Xenogears has the greatest writing in video game history and puts many great books to shame

The game which breaks itself half way through just to rehash "Make Room! Make Room!" In a span of about five minutes isn't really something I'd say "greatest writing in video games" or even particularly good writing.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

The game which breaks itself half way through

The game turns into a visual novel, that doesn't affect the writing or plot. Why this is so hard for people to understand I will never know

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People

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BignutzisBack posted...

The game turns into a visual novel, that doesn't affect the writing or plot. Why this is so hard for people to understand I will never know

I wasn't talking about the visual novel part. I was talking about the obviously contrived and non sequitur rehashing of Make Room! Make Room!

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I think an issue with some video game writing is that they're often treated like long movies/TV shows, and using the medium of interactive storytelling isn't taken advantage of.

like, if I wanna follow a mob story, I'd rather watch a movie than play a game that's copying a bunch of movies in the genre, when all I'm doing is driving from point a to point b, shooting enemies, and watching a bunch of cutscenes in between.

that's why games like Bioshock, Hades, Portal, etc. can stand out amongst the rest.

and even though it didn't have the greatest writing, Metal Gear Solid 2 told a story that involved the player, and messed with them, in only the way a video game could, and that's why so many people remember it after all this time.

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Oh yeah. Game writing, when it's trying to be like film/literature, sucks. GTA does pull off good scenes. Like, their individual scenes in those games are well written enough to be in movies and tv shows. But their overall stories are usually pretty balls. And that's how I find it for most games, even the ones people consider some of the best.

I think there are some CRPGs that had some good writing, and a few other RPGs.

g0ldie posted...

and even though it didn't have the greatest writing, Metal Gear Solid 2 told a story that involved the player, and messed with them, in only the way a video game could, and that's why so many people remember it after all this time.

Funny we posted this almost at the same time. Yes this is exactly right. The best moments are the ones that could only happen in games. The epic shootout escape you had on the fly in GTA. The tragedy of seeing your Simcity get trashed by a natural disaster, or your home in Sims burn down.

When I was playing Skyrim for the first time, I found a character to marry. We were getting married where I lived in Riften, on the east end of the map. Well, the night before my wedding, I'm at the bar in Riften, and a man is there and asks me to have a drinking contest. I say sure, and it starts a quest. My character blacks out and wakes up across the map in Markarth, all the way on the west end of the province. On the morning of my wedding. Suffice to say, I missed my wedding.

Now Skyrim's actual writing is balls, and I trash it often. But, within the game mechanics and quests structure, I was able to stumble into this completely dynamic and unique situation that both stressed me out and cracked me up and astounded me all at once. That is the power of storytelling in games. Whatever I can say about Skyrim, the fact something like that could happen was amazing.

Yes

It's like expecting a theme park ride to have good writing.

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MorbidFaithless posted...

Video games are rarely the best medium for storytelling.

Video games excel at story making.

Video games tell great stories, just in an entirely different way that movies and books. Which is why video games that are dialogue/cutscene heavy usually fall short -- because they are trying to tell stories the same way movies/books do through a medium that is not made for that.

A video game's story should be told through the player's interactions with the world, giving them choices, and allowing them to discover things. Going cutscene/dialog heavy takes the player out of the game and makes them feel like they're supposed to stick to a script while they travel from point A to B to see what happens next.

Examples of stories done right include:
Morrowind
Dark Souls
Metroid Prime
To a lesser extent, Pokemon

Stories done wrong include:
Skyrim
Witcher III
GTA
Assassin's Creed

The player should not constantly have to be told what events are transpiring around them. They should just exist in a world that has places, history, and things to interact with and discover. The protagonist they're controlling should speak little, if any. Because the player's thoughts should be what drives them to do things, rather than a fleshed-out protagonist always talking out loud about why he/she does things and what motives him/her.

Disco Elysium was a really good time for me.



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