Current Events > Texas's response has made me lose faith in wind energy

(+) Yeah! (+)

Due to the wind farms near the cities failing they have had rolling blackouts.

I'll say it again. Nuclear power is the future and needs to be more widely adopted. There needs to be a federal inititive to modernize and expand our clean nuclear power grid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/frozen-wind-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

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Nuclear power is the way

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The wind farms in Iowa seem to do fine when they get this weather every year


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Nuclear power seems will never happen thanks to NIMBY.

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Mr.Burnslaugh.jpg

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pogo_rabid posted...

I'll say it again. Nuclear power is the future and needs to be more widely adopted.

Fusion is the future.

But nuclear is pretty great until we can build a Fusion plant.

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littlebro07 posted...

The wind farms in Iowa seem to do fine when they get this weather every year

Are you sure about that? The failure rates of wind farms are astronomical in northern states.

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littlebro07 posted...

The wind farms in Iowa seem to do fine when they get this weather every year

They prepare those for cold weather better up there. Texas' stance in this regard has been "It'll never get this cold so who cares."

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Not sure this is the type of thing that make anyone want to drop wind farms, unless you already were holding that opinion to begin with.

Though we should almost definitely be heavily investing in nuclear power.

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COVxy posted...

Not sure this is the type of thing that make anyone want to drop wind farms, unless you already were holding that opinion to begin with.

Though we should almost definitely be heavily investing in nuclear power.

I was on the fence about them previously, they do have many benefits, but the cons are numerous as well, this example of a catastrophic failure pushed me over the edge.

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Can someone explain to me why this weather would cause an issue with Wind Farms? There's plenty of wind this time of year.
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harley2280 posted...

Can someone explain to me why this weather would cause an issue with Wind Farms? There's plenty of wind this time of year.

They're freezing over and mechanically failing. Best case they just need to be deiced, worst case, internal components failed and need to be replaced.

Either way, they're not generating energy in a crisis situation when they're needed the most

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harley2280 posted...

Can someone explain to me why this weather would cause an issue with Wind Farms? There's plenty of wind this time of year.

pogo_rabid posted...

Due to the wind farms near the cities failing they have had rolling blackouts.

I'll say it again. Nuclear power is the future and needs to be more widely adopted. There needs to be a federal inititive to modernize and expand our clean nuclear power grid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/frozen-wind-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

Man, you don't even need to click the link to figure this out, lmao

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COVxy posted...

harley2280 posted...

Can someone explain to me why this weather would cause an issue with Wind Farms? There's plenty of wind this time of year.

pogo_rabid posted...

Due to the wind farms near the cities failing they have had rolling blackouts.

I'll say it again. Nuclear power is the future and needs to be more widely adopted. There needs to be a federal inititive to modernize and expand our clean nuclear power grid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/frozen-wind-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

Man, you don't even need to click the link to figure this out, lmao

Jesus it's fucking early and some how I just completely glossed over that. Thank you.
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Isn't there a lot of political resistance to clean energy in Texas from oil lobbies? Look at this take smh:

https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/1361658427395747842?s=19

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Okay after actually reading the article the entire reason there's an issue is because TX just didn't care enough to take precautions to stop it from happening.

Turbines can be equipped with packages that allow them to continue working in freezing temperatures. However the modifications are costly, according to Wind Power Engineering, and therefore seldom made in locations where they are unlikely to be needed.

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Jabodie posted...

Isn't there a lot of political resistance to clean energy in Texas from oil lobbies? Look at this take smh:

https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/1361658427395747842?s=19

I bet he's not even getting paid that much. I saw an article a while back about how cheaply these politicans can be bought. Hell, i'd be surprised if he was even getting even close to the 6 figure mark from the oil industry.

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Antarctica has wind farms.

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Jabodie posted...

Isn't there a lot of political resistance to clean energy in Texas from oil lobbies? Look at this take smh:

https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/1361658427395747842?s=19

Regardless, TX uses about 25% wind power for its grid. Wind farms litter parts of the state.

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masticatingman posted...

Regardless, TX uses about 25% wind power for its grid. Wind farms litter parts of the state.

Damn that number had grown rapidly. It was only 10% like 8 years ago I think.

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The power grid should not be dependent on any one thing, wind, nuclear and solar together is the best option.

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CableZL posted...

They prepare those for cold weather better up there. Texas' stance in this regard has been "It'll never get this cold so who cares."

It's cold and I care. I hate the cold. Been without power since Sunday evening around 4am. This sucks so bad.

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Jabodie posted...

masticatingman posted...

Regardless, TX uses about 25% wind power for its grid. Wind farms litter parts of the state.

Damn that number had grown rapidly. It was only 10% like 8 years ago I think.

So rapidly it's almost like wind energy is a reliable and cost effective option that works as long as you take the correct precautions against cold weather.
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US nuclear power still relies on ancient technology compared to what's being done in France and some other countries. Catching up would take a ton of money, and eventually all those old and poorly maintained reactors will have to be upgraded and/or shutdown, both options being extremely costly. i'm not expecting the federal or state governments being very willing to sink money in this

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TheGreatEscape posted...

US nuclear power still relies on ancient technology compared to what's being done in France and some other countries. Catching up would take a ton of money, and eventually all those old and poorly maintained reactors will have to be upgraded and/or shutdown, both options being extremely costly. i'm not expecting the federal or state governments being very willing to sink money in this

As Biden said the other day, China will 'eat our lunch' on infrastructure. We need to bite the bullet and actually massively spend on our infrastructure.

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harley2280 posted...

So rapidly it's almost like wind energy is a reliable and cost effective option that works as long as you take the correct precautions against cold weather.

also this, the largest windfarm in Canada operates in an area that sees very strong winds (of course) and a ton of snow and ice. there are ways to de-ice the blades and the rotors while not having to shut down operations

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Note: Texas' biggest problem has been the natural gas

https://twitter.com/sethriklin/status/1361538737268797444?s=19

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One of the biggest advantages China will have going forward in energy is not having to deal with the anti-science nuclear hating activists.

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Antifar posted...

Note: Texas' biggest problem has been the natural gas

https://twitter.com/sethriklin/status/1361538737268797444?s=19

Rational people lost faith in natural gas energy a long fucking time ago. This is why I support a massive nationwide initiative to begin the process of bringing nuclear power up replacing our current energy generation infrastructure.

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ssjevot posted...

One of the biggest advantages China will have going forward in energy is not having to deal with the anti-science nuclear hating activists.

the western world is lacking in good science communication. it's easy to just blame people for not understanding how modern nuclear power works, but these people live with preconceived (and sometimes justified) ideas that no one bothered to try dismantling. just dismissing these people and their fears as invalid isn't a way to convince them that nuclear power is the way to go in the relatively near future.

in any case, i firmly believe that easiest way to avoid power issues is to reduce energy consumption to begin with, but that's probably an even less popular solution somehow

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Nuclear is the way but as ssjevot says, we have a huge anti-science lobby in this country. That combined with gas and coal lobbies I don't think any many shift is likely to be forthcoming.

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But there are tons of wind farms in WY, MT, and AB...

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we need to fast track nuclear reactor builds. most of the red tape is in place because of old ass reactor designs that were essentially giant steam boilers with no safety release valve. a molten salt reactor by its very definition is resistant to runaway chain reactions, and because you're removing water from the cooling equation you dont run the risk of a huge steam or hydrogen explosion blowing up your building. there's also the fact that using a liquid fuel would allow you to use much more of the fuel, so much less long lasting nuclear waste. and of course there's the thorium reactor idea if we want to get an easier to dig up fuel.

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TheGreatEscape posted...

the western world is lacking in good science communication. it's easy to just blame people for not understanding how modern nuclear power works, but these people live with preconceived (and sometimes justified) ideas that no one bothered to try dismantling. just dismissing these people and their fears as invalid isn't a way to convince them that nuclear power is the way to go in the relatively near future.

in any case, i firmly believe that easiest way to avoid power issues is to reduce energy consumption to begin with, but that's probably an even less popular solution somehow

With electric cars becoming mainstream on the horizon, reducing our overall energy dependence on large powerplants is not feasible at this point.

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pogo_rabid posted...

Due to the wind farms near the cities failing they have had rolling blackouts.

I'll say it again. Nuclear power is the future and needs to be more widely adopted. There needs to be a federal inititive to modernize and expand our clean nuclear power grid.

"bUt cHeRnObYl aNd fUkUsHiMa"

Meanwhile fossil fuels cause many, many more casualties with their pollution.

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Jabodie posted...

Isn't there a lot of political resistance to clean energy in Texas from oil lobbies? Look at this take smh:

https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/1361658427395747842?s=19

This is especially moronic because the entire Midwest is also facing rolling blackouts because natural gas wells have frozen over and utility companies are running out of juice.
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pogo_rabid posted...

With electric cars becoming mainstream on the horizon, reducing our overall energy dependence on large powerplants is not feasible at this point.

It is absolutely feasible, electric cars becoming mainstream is just another way the governments have given up on finding real solutions to environmental issues. Instead of reducing car dependancy we're just shifting to a new, still resource intensive technology. You can't fix every human problem with a technological solution, and this is a prime example of that. I'm not saying electric cars aren't important, but they could and should go hand-in-hand with a deep rethinking of how american cities are designed to reduce the need for cars in the first place.

I know it's not happening, but all it takes is a bit of political will and more autonomy for large cities and local communities to decide what's best for them.

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TC is such a bad faith poster. He's done nothing but shit talk green energy sources for years.

Now is like "Oh I was on the fence but THIS tipped me."

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It's not just cities, but the entire country has been designed in a way where public transport is not feasible for the vast majority of people. For example, the nearest bus stop in my town is a almost a 1 mile walk, and the return trip would be all uphill with no sidewalks available. You effectively need cars to get anywhere around here and no amount of city planning will fix this. Even starting fresh with a brand new town, the terrain here doesn't allow for that kind of thing in a reasonable manner.

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pogo_rabid posted...

It's not just cities, but the entire country has been designed in a way where public transport is not feasible for the vast majority of people. For example, the nearest bus stop in my town is a almost a 1 mile walk, and the return trip would be all uphill with no sidewalks available. You effectively need cars to get anywhere around here and no amount of city planning will fix this. Even starting fresh with a brand new town, the terrain here doesn't allow for that kind of thing in a reasonable manner.

I mean the two things you described can easily fixed. Adding sidewalks and bus stops isn't a very complex thing to do. Transit systems are starting to include services for on-demand transport, think Uber but it's public and costs the same as a public transit ride would. Some communities with low population density where you can't justify running empty buses every 10 minutes already do that and it works well. "no sidewalks available" is one of the most baffling thing i often see in suburbs, and also not difficult to fix. Same for lack of cycling infrastructures. Again, it's not because it's impossible, it's just the lack of political will.

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Whoever put in windfarms as a base power generator needs to be fired, like how did that even happen?

Like this is such a gross oversight that criminal charges seem appropriate

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They would have to be small busses. At least up here in the northeast, the majority of non-main roads are almost too tight for your standard school busses. At least in my area, putting sidewalks in would be a massive undertaking due to how the roads were laid down. Hundreds of miles of retaining walls and whatnot would have to be built in as our terrain is not level.

Personally I would love to see it happen, but I doubt it ever will.

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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Whoever put in windfarms as a base power generator needs to be fired, like how did that even happen?

Like this is such a gross oversight that criminal charges seem appropriate

Again, the natural gas has been faring worse.

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Antifar posted...

Again, the natural gas has been faring worse.

All the more reason to faze them out in favor of nuclear power.

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pogo_rabid posted...

All the more reason to faze them out in favor of nuclear power.

because of current regulations it takes like 20 years to build one. and because of the up front cost it takes about 10 years into its run-time to recoup the building costs and start turning a profit.

the fundimental issue with relying on the private sector to produce more nuclear reactor power plants is there's no profit to be made so why would they...

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pogo_rabid posted...

They would have to be small busses. At least up here in the northeast, the majority of non-main roads are almost too tight for your standard school busses. At least in my area, putting sidewalks in would be a massive undertaking due to how the roads were laid down. Hundreds of miles of retaining walls and whatnot would have to be built in as our terrain is not level.

Personally I would love to see it happen, but I doubt it ever will.

if it's a low density area, small busses or even minivans work just fine. and yeah your area seems to have a pretty specific set of issues, but what i've said still applies to the vast majority of suburbs and cities in north america.

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TheGreatEscape posted...

if it's a low density area, small busses or even minivans work just fine. and yeah your area seems to have a pretty specific set of issues, but what i've said still applies to the vast majority of suburbs and cities in north america.

1,060.6 people per square mile in my area, it's just a terrain issue and the fact most of our roadways were originally set up in the 1800's, and "modernized" for cars in the 1930's-1950's.

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Aressar posted...

"bUt cHeRnObYl aNd fUkUsHiMa"

More people died in the panic evacuating Fukushima (about 2200) than died from radiation (0).

From what I was reading, Texas didnt pay for the upgrades to deal with cold due to cost cutting that would allow the wind turbines (and other forms of power) to run, like heating up the lubricant for the wind turbines.

Sounds like a Texas thing to do

pogo_rabid posted...

Are you sure about that? The failure rates of wind farms are astronomical in northern states.

If by astronomical you mean something like 5%, then yes, astronomical.

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