Current Events > Pick-Up Artists think they're great with women, but are they?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Graycap posted...

PUA is basically dead now, Tinder and the pandemic did a 1-2 punch on it, so I'm more referring back to when it was actually culturally relevant. >_>

when would you describe it as "culturally relevant"? if its 2001, then you may have been right, i wasnt in the scene back then

but from 2010+, there was a big revival in the pick up artist scene and a very careful removal from the bullshit mystery method era
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MrToothHasYou posted...

This is the dorkiest shit Ive ever read lmfao

you are free to think whatever you want, if its effective and lets me live the life i want...then im fine with it
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If there is some stuff in there that helps you be more confident with women that's fine but in itself but there is absolutely toxic stuff in there. You gave us the example yourself! It shouldn't be a game to go after the "hardest" woman (like a newlywed) or as many as possible. You have to do it remembering there's at least one other person on the side of every interaction, even if you get in the mindset where you can move on from a rejection and not think about it, you don't know what she might be thinking.

If I was on my honeymoon and some dude started trying to seduce my wife right in front of me, even if she brushed it off I'd probably be extremely put off the rest of the night and I'd hope she would be too.

GrabASnickers posted...

If there is some stuff in there that helps you be more confident with women that's fine but in itself but there is absolutely toxic stuff in there. You gave us the example yourself! It shouldn't be a game to go after the "hardest" woman (like a newlywed) or as many as possible. You have to do it remembering there's at least one other person on the side of every interaction, even if you get in the mindset where you can move on from a rejection and not think about it, you don't know what she might be thinking.

If I was on my honeymoon and some dude started trying to seduce my wife right in front of me, even if she brushed it off I'd probably be extremely put off the rest of the night and I'd hope she would be too.

i completely agree with that, and it isnt something that is taught. the guy is a pro, saw a girl he wanted and went for it..she just happened to be married. for what it's worth, he did ask my friend if he should go through with it so he was ambivalent himself. and that wasn't something he was teaching, it wasn't recorded. it was on his downtime for his own personal self. im not gonna tell him what to do with his personal life, but i would have issue with it if he posted it as a video on his youtube channel. as far as pick up teachings, i see very little that is toxic. that is not to say that there aren't toxic or misogynistic people out there, just like in any other field
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When it was "cool" and "trendy". Thinking about it.. VH1 is pretty high on the crimes against humanity list

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There's actually a PUA on gfaqs who married a girl he met while doing pick up

@MajesticFerret
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CARRRNE_ASADA posted...

When it was "cool" and "trendy". Thinking about it.. VH1 is pretty high on the crimes against humanity list

lmao yeah that's the bullshit mystery method era stuff. PUA is NOTHING like that. it's 100% different now
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NoU: "PUA really works, I knew a guy who snagged a woman on her honeymoon!"
Everyone: "That's fucking scummy and gross"
NoU: "I'm not condoning it, just saying it's a thing you can do with PUA teachings"
Everyone: "Wow sounds like PUA is toxic"
NoU: "No! PUA doesn't teach stuff like that"

It's like the "No, that's socialism!" meme

GrabASnickers posted...

NoU: "PUA really works, I knew a guy who snagged a woman on her honeymoon!"
Everyone: "That's fucking scummy and gross"
NoU: "I'm not condoning it, just saying it's a thing you can do with PUA teachings"
Everyone: "Wow sounds like PUA is toxic"
NoU: "No! PUA doesn't teach stuff like that"

p accurate. any skill in the history of the world can be used for toxic purposes. doesnt mean the skill in of itself is toxic. it also depends on your views of marriage. i don't place high value on it, to me 2 adults consensually fucked. a bit shady and i wouldnt had done it but really doesnt bother me that much.
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Yeah, I'm not going to continue trying to explain how there is a direct correlation between PUA and that kind of toxic behavior, given that you're the one who implicitly made the correlation in the first place, and now you're trying to deny it. You're either completely delusional or trying to save face after you got caught with your pants down in this topic trying to glorify sleaziness.

GrabASnickers posted...

Yeah, I'm not going to continue trying to explain how there is a direct correlation between PUA and that kind of toxic behavior, given that you're the one who implicitly made the correlation in the first place, and now you're trying to deny it. You're either completely delusional or trying to save face after you got caught with your pants down in this topic trying to glorify sleaziness.

It would be toxic if that was something rampant that happened constantly and was being taught. It was something that a PUA happened to do on his free time. And it is just morally grey. I know of PUA convicted of rape too. Doesn't mean the community as a whole is toxic. That's like saying all doctors and the medical industry are evil because one gets convicted for murder
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No_U is really putting in the effort with this latest trolling attempt.

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radical rhino posted...

No_U is really putting in the effort with this latest trolling attempt.

This ain't even my topic, I'm just trying to give everyone perspective
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Fishstick posted...

Does anyone really take @No_U_L7 seriously?

No.

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Again, I don't really keep up with who everyone is on CE, and if he is being insincere, there are still people who really think the way he is showing here

i am 100% serious
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Shablagoo posted...

https://youtu.be/N7FVmeJXwCY

From the comments:

This is literally how it's done. Attraction isn't negotiated. She's either down or she's not. Boomhauer just wants to hook up and he's upfront and honest to women about it. He's not lying or deceitful. He found one chick who was down and it's still mid afternoon. He's still got plenty of day left to find more lol.

Another guy said similar and his wife was the last girl he hit on at the mall.

No_U_L7 posted...

1. i wasn't cheering him on, as i clearly stated. i was impressed at his mastery of technical game. it was more that it was such a difficult situation and he was able to overcome every single obstacle.

So here is the thing.

You believe he manipulated the woman to having sex with him on her honeymoon.
Because if he did not manipulate her, then there is no demonstration of technical mastery.

So either the woman already wanted to have sex with someone not her husband, or pua is indeed all about manipulation at least in the technical sense.

WingsOfGood posted...

This is literally how it's done. Attraction isn't negotiated. She's either down or she's not. Boomhauer just wants to hook up and he's upfront and honest to women about it. He's not lying or deceitful. He found one chick who was down and it's still mid afternoon. He's still got plenty of day left to find more lol.

attraction isn't an on/off switch. it isnt binary. and there are difference types of attraction. physical attraction is more instantaneous but there's still a scale from "ew" to "he's kinda cute" to "whoa hes fucking hot"

but by saying "she's either down or she's not" you're saying how well you know someone and personality doesnt factor into attraction at all, which is blatantly false
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WingsOfGood posted...

So here is the thing.

You believe he manipulated the woman to having sex with him on her honeymoon.
Because if he did not manipulate her, then there is no demonstration of technical mastery.

So either the woman already wanted to have sex with someone not her husband, or pua is indeed all about manipulation at least in the technical sense.

again, this relates back to my previous post. attraction is not binary, it isn't "she's either down or she isn't". the more she talked to him the more she became attracted to him. that isn't manipulation, it's expression of his self and personality. he was masterfully able to communicate and express what he needed to.
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It is not impressive if there was no manipulation.

He shot his shot and it worked. But you act like he did tricks to make it work.

Which is funny because you spent many posts explaining pua isn't about tricks.

So again, what was impressive about having sex with a newlywed who was already dtf?

Excellent topic, feel like I learned a lot about PUAs, sounds like its hard work but good for the guys that excel at it.

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WingsOfGood posted...

It is not impressive if there was no manipulation.

He shot his shot and it worked. But you act like he did tricks to make it work.

Which is funny because you spent many posts explaining pua isn't about tricks.

So again, what was impressive about having sex with a newlywed who was already dtf?

why is your underlying assumptions that it was manipulation or not...?

why is your underlying assumption that she was already dtf or not?

communication is more nuanced than that, especially male to female communication

you're literally saying that it is not possible that she wasn't super into him but became more attracted to him the more they talked. is that correct? why is that not possible iyo?

watching him be able to build attraction that wasn't there was what was impressive to me
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No_U_L7 posted...

why is your underlying assumptions that it was manipulation or not...?

why is your underlying assumption that she was already dtf or not?

I am not making the assumption. The language of it being impressive implies manipulation.

That is to say, he did certain tricks that had he not done it, she would not have fucked him.
Do you agree with that sentence? If so, that is manipulation.

Or we should say, she would have probably fucked him or someone else who was not her husband either way.
Do you agree with this statement?
If so, that is not manipulation but that means there was nothing technical to appreciate either.

No_U_L7 posted...

you're literally saying that it is not possible that she wasn't super into him but became more attracted to him the more they talked. is that correct? why is that not possible iyo?

If she started super into him, then it is not impressive.
You literally used this as an extreme example to say how powerful pua is.
But if she saw him before they met and she thought, "I would rather fuck him than my husband tonight", he didn't have to do much.
A better example of pua would have been an ugly guy a woman was creeped out by getting her to want him to spend the night with her.

Btw no_u, I am not hating on you, you do give some good advice at times, it is just that this scenario logically has to be manipulation or it isn't impressive and the lady just wanted to fuck someone not her husband.

WingsOfGood posted...

I am not making the assumption. The language of it being impressive implies manipulation.

That is to say, he did certain tricks that had he not done it, she would not have fucked him.
Do you agree with that sentence? If so, that is manipulation.

Or we should say, she would have probably fucked him or someone else who was not her husband either way.
Do you agree with this statement?
If so, that is not manipulation but that means there was nothing technical to appreciate either.

If she started super into him, then it is not impressive.
You literally used this as an extreme example to say how powerful pua is.
But if she saw him before they met and she thought, "I would rather fuck him than my husband tonight", he didn't have to do much.
A better example of pua would have been an ugly guy a woman was creeped out by getting her to want him to spend the night with her.

Nope, I 100% disagree. He didn't manipulate anything...he communicated effectively to build attraction that previously didn't exist.

If you really want to be cynical, you can say that all of life is a manipulation: in job interviews you manipulate your potential employers into giving you a job, you manipulate your girlfriend into staying with you by buying dinner, etc.

I disagree. In a job interview, you are communicating how you are the right person for the job, in a relationship you communicate a good experience by treating your girlfriend to dinner.

once again, the reason it was impressive was because of the way he was able to build attraction that was not previously there via his communication. he had to do a ton to get her there.
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No_U_L7 posted...

Nope, I 100% disagree. He didn't manipulate anything...he communicated effectively to build attraction that previously didn't exist.

Job interview is a good example.

If a dude nails the interview, aka had effective communication, but all of it was bs, it was manipulation. That would be impressive for a dude who had 0 engineering skills to get the job for chief engineer at the top engineering company.

However, if a dude already had all the skills the company was looking for and was already experienced in years of being the chief engineer, him nailing an interview is not impressive.
This means the company actually just wanted him already and had he messed up in the intervie, he probably still would have got the job.

So, this woman either already had a mind to fuck another man and your pua friend just happened to tell her "here I am"
Or
She loved her husband and had no desire to cheat but his amazing technical skills seduced her and made her change her mind, aka, manipulation.

It can't be both.

WingsOfGood posted...

Job interview is a good example.

If a dude nails the interview, aka had effective communication, but all of it was bs, it was manipulation. That would be impressive for a dude who had 0 engineering skills to get the job for chief engineer at the top engineering company.

However, if a dude already had all the skills the company was looking for and was already experienced in years of being the chief engineer, him nailing an interview is not impressive.
This means the company actually just wanted him already and had he messed up in the intervie, he probably still would have got the job.

why does he have to be a senior engineer with years of experience? what if he's had a couple years of experience and every other candidate is equally or more qualified? but then, in the interview this guy was able to come up with better examples, stories etc that illustrated his value as an engineer and what he would bring to the job

WingsOfGood posted...

However, if a dude already had all the skills the company was looking for and was already experienced in years of being the chief engineer, him nailing an interview is not impressive.
This means the company actually just wanted him already and had he messed up in the intervie, he probably still would have got the job.

So, this woman either already had a mind to fuck another man and your pua friend just happened to tell her "here I am"
Or
She loved her husband and had no desire to cheat but his amazing technical skills seduced her and made her change her mind, aka, manipulation.

It can't be both.

manipulation implies it was deceitful. nothing he did was deceitful. at no point did he lie or misrepresent himself or anything similar. changing someone's mind by making your argument/point isn't "manipulation", it's properly stating the facts and how they favor you and letting the other person draw their own conclusion in your favor
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No_U_L7 posted...

manipulation implies it was deceitful. nothing he did was deceitful. at no point did he lie or misrepresent himself or anything similar. changing someone's mind by making your argument/point isn't "manipulation", it's properly stating the facts and how they favor you and letting the other person draw their own conclusion in your favor

Well in any case care to share the technical techniques he used to communicate this to her effectively?

WingsOfGood posted...

Well in any case care to share the technical techniques he used to communicate this to her effectively?

it's not any one thing he does, it an accumulation over a long period of time

he reframes any objections to give himself value:

him: what brings you to america? (she's foreign)
her (dismissively): just here for the american experience
him: well part of the american experience is meeting cool interesting americans

he knows exactly what story to tell, when to tell it, and the correct format to maximize tension and suspense

he knows exactly what she needs at any given moment, ie: "i need her to think im cool now, im gonna tell the story about the time ___" or "i need to seem more relateable right now, i'll tell her the story about my grandma", etc

it was like he was seeing into the matrix
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No_U_L7 posted...

it's not any one thing he does, it an accumulation over a long period of time

he reframes any objections to give himself value:

him: what brings you to america? (she's foreign)
her (dismissively): just here for the american experience
him: well part of the american experience is meeting cool interesting americans

he knows exactly what story to tell, when to tell it, and the correct format to maximize tension and suspense

he knows exactly what she needs at any given moment, ie: "i need her to think im cool now, im gonna tell the story about the time ___" or "i need to seem more relateable right now, i'll tell her the story about my grandma", etc

it was like he was seeing into the matrix

"It's not manipulation! He just says and does things to get the desired result without a shred of sincerity!"

I actually found this shit amusing to do in my teens. Being able to read people and what they wanted from me has gotten me out of many jams with authority figures in my adolescence. I matured and learned sincerity is a more valued skill. What your idol does, is textbook manipulation.

TheSavageDragon posted...

"It's not manipulation! He just says and does things to get the desired result without a shred of sincerity!"

I actually found this shit amusing to do in my teens. Being able to read people and what they wanted from me has gotten me out of many jams with authority figures in my adolescence. I matured and learned sincerity is a more valued skill. What your idol does, is textbook manipulation.

let me correct you right there: you're making a false assumption that he is doing it without sincerity. that is incorrect, doing it with sincerity is also a skill, which a good PUA possesses
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No_U_L7 posted...

There's actually a PUA on gfaqs who married a girl he met while doing pick up

@MajesticFerret

Yessir, it's true.

And what's funny is how antiquated the perception people have of the "PUA community" is. My thoughts:

1. Honestly, most people call themselves PUAs almost ironically. There's tons of "dating coaches" and "self help" guys that more or less have a PUA background that simply no longer go by the nomiclature.

And they aren't cringe or even hiding in the recesses of the internet. Literally just type in a YouTube "dating coach," "dating advice", "online dating advice" and congrats, you will be balls deep in the "seedy underbelly" of the PUA community...mostly just young guys trying to figure out how to get better with women. No shame in it really.

If anything, I kinda call anyone a liar who hasn't Google searched dating advice whether it is how to get better at texting, online dating, dates themselves, relationship advice, or meeting women, but if you ever have, I can guarantee this stuff was created based on a lot of PUA/manosphere theory just recrafted to be more mainstream and less cringy.

2. "Covid killed PUA." Completely false. Online game is literally probably the most popular subcategory of game rn and has been for awhile. What kinds of pics to show, how to show them, what to write in your bio, how to properly text girls in the app, what apps logistically attract what demographic of women and how you should alter your profile to appeal more to what the common denominator hot girl is on the app.

All this stuff makes a HUGE difference. I haven't dated post Covid due to being married and all, bit I went from almost zero results to getting 4-5 dates a week using an amagalmation of online apps and using online dating advice I got from a Facebook Dating Group (which is basically just a mainstream way of saying it's a PUA group because it's literally using the core concepts).

So in summary, you literally don't even need to approach women to do "game" anymore, you can literally do this shit over online game and if you know what you're doing you'll get much better results. I was doing so well with online game, I could have thereotically dropped cold appraching girls in person if I wanted to.

3. Last and not least, my thoughts in the guy gaming the married chick on her honeymoon: While that certainly requires some degree of good game on the guys end, I think this is also a testament to the wife being pretty pathetic and her husband being a loser.

In fact, I would argue it is more a testament to the later. Arguably the most important part of game is better understanding human sexuality and how it relates to male and female psychology, and I can almost guarantee the main reason that guy was able to pick up some guys fiance is because the guy was being a coward and letting a guy hit on his wife and not do anything about it. For a lot of women, this is a HUGE turn off. I've heard multiple stories of guys on dates losing their girl in the middle of the date because a better looking more smooth guy hit on their girl and they didn't man up and nip that shit in the butt right then and there and if you don't, a lot of girls lose huge respect and attraction and conversally become more attacted to the dude walking all over you (duh, but again, some guys need this shit spelled out for them).

I can almost guarantee if the married guy intercepted and flat out told the guy hitting on his fiance to piss off, there's almost nothing the guy could have done as the woman has far more investment in the guy she married.

If this is not the case and the woman literally has higher investment to a guy she just met than her husband, she is either a total slut and is for the streets or her husband must be a huge loser of the nth degree, but I'm betting it's a combination of the two. No amount of good game is going to pull a happily married woman from a decent value guy especially if the guy is there and he isn't a bitch and is willing to verbally tell the guy off.

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MajesticFerret posted...

Yessir, it's true.

And what's funny is how antiquated the perception people have of the "PUA community" is. My thoughts:

1. Honestly, most people call themselves PUAs almost ironically. There's tons of "dating coaches" and "self help" guys that more or less have a PUA background that simply no longer go by the nomiclature.

And they aren't cringe or even hiding in the recesses of the internet. Literally just type in a YouTube "dating coach," "dating advice", "online dating advice" and congrats, you will be balls deep in the "seedy underbelly" of the PUA community...mostly just young guys trying to figure out how to get better with women. No shame in it really.

If anything, I kinda call anyone a liar who hasn't Google searched dating advice whether it is how to get better at texting, online dating, dates themselves, relationship advice, or meeting women, but if you ever have, I can guarantee this stuff was created based on a lot of PUA/manosphere theory just recrafted to be more mainstream and less cringy.

2. "Covid killed PUA." Completely false. Online game is literally probably the most popular subcategory of game rn and has been for awhile. What kinds of pics to show, how to show them, what to write in your bio, how to properly text girls in the app, what apps logistically attract what demographic of women and how you should alter your profile to appeal more to what the common denominator hot girl is on the app.

All this stuff makes a HUGE difference. I haven't dated post Covid due to being married and all, bit I went from almost zero results to getting 4-5 dates a week using an amagalmation of online apps and using online dating advice I got from a Facebook Dating Group (which is basically just a mainstream way of saying it's a PUA group because it's literally using the core concepts).

So in summary, you literally don't even need to approach women to do "game" anymore, you can literally do this shit over online game and if you know what you're doing you'll get much better results. I was doing so well with online game, I could have thereotically dropped cold appraching girls in person if I wanted to.

3. Last and not least, my thoughts in the guy gaming the married chick on her honeymoon: While that certainly requires some degree of good game on the guys end, I think this is also a testament to the wife being pretty pathetic and her husband being a loser.

In fact, I would argue it is more a testament to the later. Arguably the most important part of game is better understanding human sexuality and how it relates to male and female psychology, and I can almost guarantee the main reason that guy was able to pick up some guys fiance is because the guy was being a coward and letting a guy hit on his wife and not do anything about it. For a lot of women, this is a HUGE turn off. I've heard multiple stories of guys on dates losing their girl in the middle of the date because a better looking more smooth guy hit on their girl and they didn't man up and nip that shit in the butt right then and there and if you don't, a lot of girls lose huge respect and attraction and conversally become more attacted to the dude walking all over you (duh, but again, some guys need this shit spelled out for them).

I can almost guarantee if the married guy intercepted and flat out told the guy hitting on his fiance to piss off, there's almost nothing the guy could have done as the woman has far more investment in the guy she married.

If this is not the case and the woman literally has higher investment to a guy she just met than her husband, she is either a total slut and is for the streets or her husband must be a huge loser of the nth degree, but I'm betting it's a combination of the two. No amount of good game is going to pull a happily married woman from a decent value guy especially if the guy is there and he isn't a bitch and is willing to verbally tell the guy off.

hey buddy, thanks for chiming in

yeah, i think you make 1 important point: everyone always asks for dating advice. this board is filled with literally hundreds of topics related to girls and not knowing what to do. i literally have to ignore so many of them because the posters are beyond hope that it's not worth the time investment it would take me to help that person.

so if guys are that desperate for advice...you really can't get upset when people actually develop game theory optimal responses to these exact situations. you cant ask for advice and then get mad when there are people out there who actually took the time to learn how to best solve these problems that you yourself are having
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"The dude was probably just a loser" sounds like some more toxic masculinity shit. Literally acting like we're animals doing our mating dances to "compete" for a woman. You're more dismissive of the guy who has his girl taken than the guy who would hit on a married woman right in front of him on his honeymoon. Maybe some guys just want to enjoy their night and not deal with assholes like that? Does it occur to you that "stopping that shit" can often mean you look like an insecure guy with trust issues? I think there's a basic expectation that you can allow your girlfriend to talk to other guys and not have her cheat on you. If she would do that there are probably deeper issues in that relationship, but they don't need a PUA to play relationship cop. If PUAs are so good at picking up women then surely they could go find a single one instead.

@No_U_L7

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There is more nuance to the woman cheating on her husband.

For all wr know she might have banged a dude on her wedding night. It could just be the way she is.

And if you learn she banged the bestman, the stripper at the bachelorette party and more...
Then the pua getting her on her honeymoon no longer seems impressive does it?

Sure, he passed her test meaning he was the kinda dude she was looking to bang, but that doesn't mean she wasn't looking to bang till he popped in.

Perhaps she is the true pua, making a dude ask his buddies if he should try his best to go through hoops to impress her and probably also violate his morals.

GrabASnickers posted...

"The dude was probably just a loser" sounds like some more toxic masculinity shit. Literally acting like we're animals doing our mating dances to "compete" for a woman. You're more dismissive of the guy who has his girl taken than the guy who would hit on a married woman right in front of him on his honeymoon. Maybe some guys just want to enjoy their night and not deal with assholes like that? Does it occur to you that "stopping that shit" can often mean you look like an insecure guy with trust issues? I think there's a basic expectation that you can allow your girlfriend to talk to other guys and not have her cheat on you. If she would do that there are probably deeper issues in that relationship, but they don't need a PUA to play relationship cop. If PUAs are so good at picking up women then surely they could go find a single one instead.

As I mentioned, you can't take an anecdocotal example and use it against the entire PUA community. People cheat. Cheating isn't illegal. Vast majority of PUAs have been cheated on (due to sample size). It's really NBD in the grand scheme of things. You can't lord your specific moral standards over 1 PUA on 1 example of something he did as an indictment of the entire community
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GrabASnickers posted...

"The dude was probably just a loser" sounds like some more toxic masculinity shit. Literally acting like we're animals doing our mating dances to "compete" for a woman. You're more dismissive of the guy who has his girl taken than the guy who would hit on a married woman right in front of him on his honeymoon. Maybe some guys just want to enjoy their night and not deal with assholes like that? Does it occur to you that "stopping that shit" can often mean you look like an insecure guy with trust issues? I think there's a basic expectation that you can allow your girlfriend to talk to other guys and not have her cheat on you. If she would do that there are probably deeper issues in that relationship, but they don't need a PUA to play relationship cop. If PUAs are so good at picking up women then surely they could go find a single one instead.

LMFAO off on blaming men who talk to taken women instead of blaming the women or the loser guys entitlement to the woman. If anything, this comes off pretty misogynistic as it comes off the woman being the man's property.

Also, guys like you just don't fucking get it. A lot of the times it's a guys actions in a moment that make a girl lose attraction. If she was alone, it may have been HARDER to pick up his fiance, believe it or not!

Basically, if I was to make an educated guess, the biggest factor in this happening was probably the husband being a complete bitch.

You mentioned coming off looking insecure? Man, if only a group of men analyzed examples of when it's ok to man-up and when doing so makes you look insecure as far as maintaining attraction...that suuuure would be useful, right?

When you look insecure: If a guy is just being friendly. If a guy is truly just being friendly and sociable, trying to be overly rude or aggressive to him makes you look insecure. Insecurity makes it look like you aren't confident, so typically makes most women lose attraction for you.

What you do NOT look insecure: When you know for a fact the guy is hitting your girl, you know the guy knows he is hitting on your girl, and you know that the girl knows he is hitting on her...

In this instance, the guy is disrespecting you and not only is he disrespecting you, but he's doing it in front of your girl, so it's an even bigger slap to the face. In this instance, doing nothing just makes you look like a doormat. Women are not attracted to doormats for pretty obvious evolutionary reasons, so in this instance the guys LACK of game is probably a bigger influence than potentially even how good the other guys game was.

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Which brings me to the point that this shit isn't just for getting girls but also KEEPING girls.

There are behaviors in a relationship that lead to a higher probability of the girl losing attraction and behaviors that lead to a higher possibility of maintaining attraction. The goal over time is to internalize these positive behaviors while harshly rejecting the negative ones, and over time, you basically just become a more high value dude overall and no longer do any of the insecure shit you used to do that lead to girls leaving you. You no longer need to consciously do any of these things but you instead just do them all naturally.

Ironically, even guys who are naturally good with women probably have at least some behaviors that they figure out with trial and error are better than others and slowly correct them overtime without having to learn any theory about why some behaviors are better than others. At the end of the day, it still yields the same result.

And again, anyone who asks for advice about women on Gfaqs (which is a LOT of dudes btw) is probably getting some of his better advice from game theory.

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It's not about viewing women as property, it's about having some expectations of monogamy in a relationship. Now some people don't like that societal standard and that's fine, but you're clearly talking about situations where the guy is not a consenting party to a polyamorous relationship. I didn't like using the word "taken" but it was just for lack of a better way to say that succinctly.

Again you're going off about the guy being a "bitch" and "evolutionary reasons", just sounds like a bunch of bro science shit that you're doing a poor job of trying to dispel the idea of it still being a part of PUA culture. People are allowed to have failed relationships but what you're talking about is a really gross, emotionally unhealthy way to come to that conclusion and hurts all three people involved in the long run.

I find the whole premise ridiculous anyway. You don't know anything about the couple's personalities or relationship dynamic when you approach them as a stranger, you're just projecting your own assumptions to justify that behavior. Maybe some dudes like to let their partner go off on her own for a bit and talk to people when they're at a place together, because they aren't insecure alpha bros who view every night out as some competition to impress the ladies the most. It's kinda hard in that case to know if a guy is hitting on her unless you're just sitting in on her every little convo. Plus drunk guys at the bar flimsily hit on women all the time. It's not crazy for a guy to think she can handle it herself. In fact, a lot of women would be put off by the idea that they need their guy to be a "protector" on the lookout to bat the alpha males away from her.

It's not that hard, don't hit on people clearly with a partner just to prove your "skill", and don't cheat on your partner just because they don't have some animalistic protector instinct.

GrabASnickers posted...

It's not about viewing women as property, it's about having some expectations of monogamy in a relationship. Now some people don't like that societal standard and that's fine, but you're clearly talking about situations where the guy is not a consenting party to a polyamorous relationship. I didn't like using the word "taken" but it was just for lack of a better way to say that succinctly.

Again you're going off about the guy being a "bitch" and "evolutionary reasons", just sounds like a bunch of bro science shit that you're doing a poor job of trying to dispel the idea of it still being a part of PUA culture. People are allowed to have failed relationships but what you're talking about is a really gross, emotionally unhealthy way to come to that conclusion and hurts all three people involved in the long run.

I find the whole premise ridiculous anyway. You don't know anything about the couple's personalities or relationship dynamic when you approach them as a stranger, you're just projecting your own assumptions to justify that behavior. Maybe some dudes like to let their partner go off on her own for a bit and talk to people when they're at a place together, because they aren't insecure alpha bros who view every night out as some competition to impress the ladies the most. It's kinda hard in that case to know if a guy is hitting on her unless you're just sitting in on her every little convo. Plus drunk guys at the bar flimsily hit on women all the time. It's not crazy for a guy to think she can handle it herself. In fact, a lot of women would be put off by the idea that they need their guy to be a "protector" on the lookout to bat the alpha males away from her.

It's not that hard, don't hit on people clearly with a partner just to prove your "skill", and don't cheat on your partner just because they don't have some animalistic protector instinct.

you cant make the assumption that was the reason he did it. i dont think it was, but who knows. either way, that just sounds like projection of hatred towards the community
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And attraction isn't a universal thing, the problem is you seem to be treating it as a repeatable science. While there are some things that are generally pretty universal, they can take on different forms. Take confidence for example. Some women like vulnerability as a form of confidence. The kind of person who likes a funny self-deprecating guy is probably put off by preening macho dudes, which seems to be what PUA puts off as the persona you need to have successful relationships

GrabASnickers posted...

And attraction isn't a universal thing, the problem is you seem to be treating it as a repeatable science. While there are some things that are generally pretty universal, they can take on different forms. Take confidence for example. Some women like vulnerability as a form of confidence. The kind of person who likes a funny self-deprecating guy is probably put off by preening macho dudes, which seems to be what PUA puts off as the persona you need to have successful relationships

Being able to decipher what girls find attractive and being able to highlight those aspects of your own personality (without being deceitful, just to be clear) is a big part of being a pick up artist. PUAs call it blue print, BDSM community calls it arousal template...its a common concept
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