Board 8 > Playing MGS4 for the first time in more than 10 years - still great! (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Xiahou Shake posted...

Isn't the whole point of the prosthetic arm reveal in MGS4 (coupled with Ocelot's last words) supposed to be that Ocelot was just pretending to be Liquid throughout the whole game so his master plan against the Patriots went off without a hitch? He was definitely legit possessed in MGS2 but it seems like after that he decided to use it to his advantage even after he'd secretly already dealt with it.

Yeah, he got rid of Liquid's arm because he was legit terrified of being possessed again, which is also why he tries to keep it covered so no one knows he replaced it, I think. The fact that he's willing to reveal it at the end indicates he doesn't care if he gets "exposed" at this point.

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ctesjbuvf posted...

So much for that huh.

Mantis doesn't deserve to be last.

I could basically feel the spite vote coming.
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peace walker is about a million times better than MGSV so if you don't like it then don't even go for V

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On the other hand I didn't personally care for Peace Walker but MGSV is my second favorite game in the series

The gameplay is so perfectly smooth

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MGSV has far better gameplay, but Peace Walker has the story you want out of a Metal Gear game

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Ocelot pretends to be possessed by Liquid in MGS4 because Ocelot's Japanese voice actor had passed away so Liquid's stepped in to replace him. Needless to say this is completely lost in the dub.

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I mean, I beat four missions the first time I played, so it has the story might grow on me.

I think it's just that blasting through another Metal Gear Solid right on top of the other ones was a bit much. Perhaps I'll play something other than Metal Gear Solid and then return to it afterward. I'm sure I'll come around to enjoy it!

Gameplay is not what worries me about V! Was it called V because Kojima did not want it to be known as 5 or how did that end up?

Leonhart4 posted...

Yeah, he got rid of Liquid's arm because he was legit terrified of being possessed again, which is also why he tries to keep it covered so no one knows he replaced it, I think. The fact that he's willing to reveal it at the end indicates he doesn't care if he gets "exposed" at this point.

Yeah, that part makes sense, I think so too and it explains why the voice is his. I still can't recall where I "learned" that he let Liquid through every time Snake appeared specifically in MGS2. It's definitely not a coincidence that it happens when he sees Snake, but I'm not sure either why it would be something he did on purpose.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Ocelot pretends to be possessed by Liquid in MGS4 because Ocelot's Japanese voice actor had passed away so Liquid's stepped in to replace him. Needless to say this is completely lost in the dub.

I remember this, it's probably a large cause of the confusion about how much it's actually Liquid and how much it's Ocelot pretending.

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The Shadow Moses stage was a 10-year tribute to MGS1. Could you imagine MGSV having an MGS4 10-year tribute if Kojima stayed at Konami?

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They kept the voice as Liquid's in the Japanese version because Ocelot's VA passed away. I don't think Kojima chose to keep Liquid Ocelot as a character because that happened though. Kojima wanted it to be Ocelot's voice in the English version. It's not "lost" in the dub. This is actually a case where the dub is closer to what the creator wanted.

Liquid Ocelot has Liquid's voice in MGS2 so the player can know who's in control. To the characters, it's always Ocelot's voice they hear. They don't need to do this in MGS4 because "Liquid" is always in control until the last minute.

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Also there's an in-game reason why it's MGSV and not MGS5.

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I thought ocelot was always pretending but not really pretending to be liquid the whole time. There was a shift between 2 and 4?

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I don't think it's ever been explicitly stated, but it's really the natural explanation for removing Liquid's arm between games.

The self-hypnosis conversation in MGSV however points away from that, imo.

I guess it could be a more mundane reason like his body rejected the transplant later on, but I don't think anything ever indicated that.
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pjbasis posted...

I thought ocelot was always pretending but not really pretending to be liquid the whole time. There was a shift between 2 and 4?

Yeah, they don't really explain that Ocelot's plan kinda shifted after 2. Big Boss makes it seem like he was doing the self-hypnosis thing the whole time, but the Liquid thing was legit in 2, at least at first. Maybe Ocelot began playing it up by the end once he realized he could use it to his advantage, but I don't think the fact that his father was a spirit medium was intended to be a red herring.

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Leonhart4 posted...

but I don't think the fact that his father was a spirit medium was intended to be a red herring.

I mean I don't believe for a second Kojima wasn't playing the possession straight at first and changed his mind later. So an unintentional red herring would certainly not be out of the question.
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It's possible he changed his mind later, but I think he put The Sorrow in 3 to explain what happened in 2. Maybe he meant to continue it in 4, but I don't think the explanation for what he's doing in 4 negates what happened to him in 2 since he got rid of the arm.

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Okay, I saw Super Bunnyhop's Critical Close-Up of MGS4, where he calls the game a "well-produced trainwreck". He did frequently criticize its overreliance on fanservice.

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Nobody cares what every YouTube critic thinks of the game.

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Super Bunnyhop is pretty good tho
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pjbasis posted...

I thought ocelot was always pretending but not really pretending to be liquid the whole time. There was a shift between 2 and 4?

It's a retcon and one that bothered me immensely.

MGS2 was Liquid returning from the grave to possess Ocelot.

MGS4 was "well it was psychotherapy and nanomachines to convince the Patriots that he's Liquid."

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it can be both

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Yeah that's not a retcon, it's plot progression. The arm shows that.

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Regardless I wasn't a fan.

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pjbasis posted...

I thought ocelot was always pretending but not really pretending to be liquid the whole time. There was a shift between 2 and 4?

A theme to MGS4 though kinda is "Is Ocelot really pretending?". If everyone senses you as something, does that in fact make you that thing? It wasn't particularly expanded upon in the game though sadly, just more nanmachines talk.

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Metal_DK posted...

Is Ocelot really pretending?

Theme of the series tbh


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ctesjbuvf posted...

Theme of the series tbh

Theme of the series is nanomachines.

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Theme of the series is GENE MEME SCENE SENSE

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Definitely not in MGS3!

I've been progressing slowly in Peace Walker, finding a pace that suits me. I can appreciate the system in many ways or at least what it tries to do. Having a Mother Base and assigning your like this is cool enough.

It has its glaring flaws however as if heavily damages the story telling of the game. Now, this might not be the main draw this time but it's still a problem. The side missions are called extra ops but you basically have to do them to level up your unit properly or you'll have serious trouble with the main ops. I played through the main ops until I was told I needed C4. I needed to recruit more men to start developmemt on that from extra ops and then I had to replay a mission to have it developed. Forcing you to replay missions is a huge problem. I might have been able to come around it had I known, but I believe there's a pretty good chance one did not have the C4 when they were needed and thus it's a serious halt in the story.

It worries me MGSV uses this format, but of course, it can be improved upon.

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ctesjbuvf posted...

Definitely not in MGS3!

Because MGS1 and MGS3 were the best entries.

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MGS1 had plenty of nanomachines in it

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Leonhart4 posted...

MGS1 had plenty of nanomachines in it

Yes it did but at least it paced the gameplay and cutscenes well enough.

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I don't think 1 or 2 directly attributed anything to nanomachines besides the Codec and FOXDIE (real along with the shot or simulated by them), so they didn't come up that much.
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Also, an issue in Peace Walker that I don't understand at all is that they removed the ability to crawl. Like... why. I've found myself often want to crawl under a truck and this isn't possible.


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I'll come back to bash Peace Walker once more.

The boss fights are lame and are essentially all the same thing.

Otherwise, I'm enjoying the core gameplay, it's a shame it gets interrupted so much. A lot of missions end on the same cutscene that another one begins because the game expects you to do all extras and develop and such. The story telling has taken so many hits.

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Final opinion, Peace Walker had potential and has its moments, but is bad and you should feel bad for enjoying it. Never playing again.

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