Poll of the Day > Trump wants to be BURIED at a MILITARY CEMETERY when he DIES!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Let me Clefairy

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Oh OniRonin is at it again.
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LinkPizza posted...

That still doesnt clarify why, though...

https://youtu.be/5rXPrfnU3G0?t=284

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Ah. So you think that literally everyone in the military in like that. Which means you probably know nothing about the military at all. Like I said earlier, most of us do other things. Like just running normal facilities on base. Or keeping things on base working.

As for the helicopter video, they just jumped to conclusions.], and seemed kind of dumb. Especially since they seemed ready to engage and were very trigger happy, yet had no actually idea what was going on. Which makes sense as they may have been taught a specific way, based on the things they were saying. But it could have been what they were told, as well. And that's not how everybody is. Most of us would rather not "engage" anybody. Especially since not everyone came in for the same reasons, as mooreandrew58 said. I know quite a few that joined so they could go to college. And some even went to college, and then still gave their GI Bill to their child so they could also go. Or their SO. Some joined because they didn't know what to do next in their life. Some joined because they just wanted to help out and leave their town. And for others, it's just a job.

Also, this is Wikileaks. And Idk that much about them. But I also don't know how much to trust them...
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LinkPizza posted...

Ah. So you think that literally everyone in the military in like that.

what? this is a complete non sequitur

But it could have been what they were told,

ohhh, nobody told me they were just doing what they were told. wow, that changes everything :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

LinkPizza posted...

Also, this is Wikileaks. And Idk that much about them. But I also don't know how much to trust them...

the us military admitted the video was real. and they said the people in that chopper murdering journalists and shooting kids followed all their rules of engagement. and theyve spent the 13 years since then trying to ruin the lives of everyone who brought it to light

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anyway if you work for a company that thinks its ok to shoot somebody because they're trying to recover a journalist's dead body, but not ok to expose the people who do that, i think you should be thrown in a ditch when you die. thats just my opinion

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OniRonin posted...

what? this is a complete non sequitur

Oh. Then what do you mean by the troops, then? Maybe that's what I got wrong...

OniRonin posted...

ohhh, nobody told me they were just doing what they were told. wow, that changes everything :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Well, you kind of have to. Disobeying orders can get you put in jail or killed... So, yeah. It kind of does "make it better". Not to mention, when I say it could have been what they were told, I'm saying they could have been told by someone higher ranking that there were hostiles in the area. So, unless they were mind readers, they wouldn't know they were lying. If you think you could do a better job, then go out there yourself and try...

OniRonin posted...

the us military admitted the video was real. and they said the people in that chopper murdering journalists and shooting kids followed all their rules of engagement. and theyve spent the 13 years since then trying to ruin the lives of everyone who brought it to light

They mostly likely didn't even know the kids were there, tbh. I didn't see them until they pointed them out. And even then, you couldn't tell they were children. As for the ROEs, they probably were following them. Based on what you can see and how you say things, they could have been following them. As for ruining their lives, well that actually makes sense, as well... There are some things in there that could be considered confidential and such. Even call signs. Plus, most of them are trying to cover their own ass. Letting something like that get leaked doesn't look good on anyone. And no one wants to be in trouble...
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OniRonin posted...

anyway if you work for a company that thinks its ok to shoot somebody because they're trying to recover a journalist's dead body, but not ok to expose the people who do that, i think you should be thrown in a ditch when you die. thats just my opinion

Except not everyone thinks it's ok. And you don't even know if they knew it was a journalist. Or do you have some special knowledge of what happened. And technically, that's not the only thing they exposed. But hey, if you want to be a shitty person, go right ahead...
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Oh. Then what do you mean by the troops, then? Maybe that's what I got wrong...

ok i will spell this out. you don't have to be directly involved in an act to have a degree of moral culpability for it

LinkPizza posted...

Well, you kind of have to. Disobeying orders can get you put in jail or killed...

oh, nobody told me there was a rule. well, breaking rules can't be moral, so that solves everything

As for ruining their lives, well that actually makes sense, as well... There are some things in there that could be considered confidential and such.

it wasn't classified. please go educate yourself about the incident if you want to discuss it more.


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OniRonin posted...

ok i will spell this out. you don't have to be directly involved in an act to have a degree of moral culpability for it

That actually depends. Someone who cooks food, but has no idea what's going on in other countries shouldn't really be held accountable for something that someone else in the military (possibly in a different branch) does. Unless you want to count the people who also sell them tools to work on things, or the people who supply the food to base, and the US population who pays money that goes to them, as well. Unless you just like to cherry pick who bad based on only what you want. But does that mean all the military? Because earlier, you said, "what? this is a complete non sequitur". So, easy question: By troops, do you mean all military personnel, or a specific subset of personnel? Easy question. And if it's not either of those, then what do you mean by troops.

OniRonin posted...

oh, nobody told me there was a rule. well, breaking rules can't be moral, so that solves everything

That doesn't matter. People don't want to die, either. And many people have families they want to take care of. And it's not like you're just breaking a rule and getting slapped on the wrist. Going to jail for the rest of your life or being killed is a lot than that. And most people would rather still have a life to live. Especially since they only know what they're told. AFAIK, what they were told is most likely true. This time, they were journalist. But what if they weren't, and they didn't do something, and then a bunch of people got killed because of that? That would have been bad to. They went out and did what they were told, which could have helped someone. These fucks seemed trigger happy and eager to go out. And not everyone in the military, or in their branch, or even at the base are probably like that.

OniRonin posted...

it most likely wasn't classified. please go educate yourself about the incident if you want to discuss it more.

You go get yourself educated. I'm in the military. Call signs are classified on certain missions. They are mission when even the people launching the jets don't know. It's suppose to help them if any transmissions are intercepted. They don't even use tails numbers, in many cases before launching them out.
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LinkPizza posted...

You go get yourself educated. I'm in the military. Call signs are classified on certain missions. They are mission when even the people launching the jets don't know. It's suppose to help them if any transmissions are intercepted. They don't even use tails numbers, in many cases before launching them out.

I have read so much shit about this case, you ahve no idea. it wasn't classified. please read about the case or shut the fuck up

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https://www.sparrowmedia.net/bradley-manning-providence-inquiry/

Judge Lind
Okay.
Alright, now we talked about earlier when I asked you with respect to the video of Specification 2 of Charge II.

You told me that that was not classified, is that correct?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Where did you access that video how did you have access to it?

Pfc. Manning

It was on the it was on our shared T drive, your Honor, that S6 operated on SIPR.

Judge Lind

Okay, so it was on SIPR.
So tell me about how so you have access to that video.

Now were you authorized to give that video to anyone outside of the service who didnt have a clearance?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Why not? It wasnt classified?

Pfc. Manning

I thought it was classified.
I looked at the classification matrix for at the corps level whenever I was reviewing the video and I thought [missed a few words] I thought that the OCA would have said the same thing that it would have been classified at the Secret level, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Was it marked in any way?

Pfc. Manning

It didnt have markings your Honor, but it I mean going by the matrix you can because it didnt have marking thats why I went to the classification matrix, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Now what is a classification matrix?

Pfc. Manning

Its sort of a quick a short hand guide for derivative classification for people with derivative classification to classify documents within the guidelines of the original classification authority, when you dont have an OCA there to determine specifically what it is at that time, so.

Judge Lind

So, just to make sure that I understand this.
We talked earlier about it if you are doing an original classification, it has to be by an OCA or its delegee, right?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And then you I guess you create your own you create products down the road using some of that originally classified information. Is that what derivative classification is?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And who has authority to derivatively classify?

Pfc. Manning

Anybody with that level of security clearance and as long as you can point to where you are getting the authority from from the original classification authority, then [missed a few words].

Judge Lind

And, the matrix is where you would look to to see that?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, in the Army or in the downrange, we have matrixes.
Its a table. It tells you what the classification level is for the acceptable type of information.

Judge Lind

Okay. So what did you do when did you see first see the video?

Pfc. Manning

This would have been in January or late February no, it was mid-February, mid-February of 2010, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Okay, and what did you you said that you originally saw the video

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

and some people in your office were talking about it?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Okay. And this was the video that you had described as war porn?

Pfc. Manning

Yes yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Okay. And what was going on in the video that you could talk about?

Pfc. Manning

It was a aerial weapons team its from the its from the camera onboard of an aerial weapons team aircraft that also reported the flight crew audio, your Honor.
And, there was in the course of duties they are engaging some they are engaging some targets and then there is two separate engagements, and then there is a third section to the video for a third one later.

Judge Lind

Okay, and you testified or you testified when you were reading your statement that some news organizations were interested in getting that video from the Freedom of Information Act?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And, did you know why they were interested in getting that video?

Pfc. Manning

Just based upon what I could see online on some open source reporting that I was looking up, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And, what did that say?

Pfc. Manning

It said that the that the company, Reuters, had made the request and that those request were not necessarily being denied but they were being they were receiving responses to that, but not getting the video.

Judge Lind

Okay, and what did you do with the video?
You said you did some research here to find out what the facts were with respect to the video, and that caused you to reach some conclusions and what were those conclusions that you reached?

Pfc. Manning

Conclusions conclusions about?

Judge Lind

Well about you made a decision did you make a decision at some point that you needed to give that video to the news media?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.
Probably about a week or so after first viewing it, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Okay, and did you at some point give that video what did you do did you take it out of the T-SCIF lets start there.
Lets start there.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor. I burned the video to a CD-RW, and then I took that out of the T-SCIF and put it onto my personal computer.

Judge Lind

Okay. Now is the CD-RW is a CDROM?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Its just a disk?

Pfc. Manning

Some of them some of them might be DVD-RWs but I am just using compact disk in general.

Judge Lind

Okay, and so you took it out and you put it on your own personal computer.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Now were you authorized to do that?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

What is the guidance given to people like you working in a T-SCIF with regard to information that comes from SIPRNet?

Pfc. Manning

If it is coming from a CD if it is on a CD theres- I mean there are there are two thoughts on how it is done, your Honor.
Some people think that if you just burn only unclassified information onto the CD and then you mark the CD as unclassified then you can then you can do what ever with it.

But then there is a lot but the more proper way of doing it would be to would be to verify [missed a few words] and there are some technical personnel that can actually verify that nothing no other digital potentially secret information might be inside of that first, before you transfer [missed a few words].

Judge Lind

So, if I am understanding you correctly that if you have completely unclassified information its okay and its verified its okay to take it out of a T-SCIF and put it on your own personal computer.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor. But its there is different ways theres different ideas on how it is verified.
Some Ive seen where you need a memorandum sometimes and Ive seen where you just need somebody to with the right rank to say its okay.

Judge Lind

What rank were you at the time?

Pfc. Manning

I was a specialist, your Honor.

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Judge Lind

Were you, as a specialist at that time, authorized to verify?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

So, if you wanted to take information even the unclassified information out of the SCIF and put it on your personal computer, you would have had to go to somebody higher in the chain is that what I am understanding at a minimum, to get verification?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor. I would have had I think the S2 would have been the person I would have got guidance from, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Did you do that with respect to this video, before you took it?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

But, did you have any authorization to take the video out of the T-SCIF?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Did you have any authorization to put it on your personal computer?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright.
Once it was there, what did you do with it?

Pfc. Manning

It was I kept it on I left it on the computer for a few days, your Honor.
I wasnt I wasnt sure what I was going to do with it.

I thought I mean, I think I had just come back off of mid-tour leave, your Honor.

And, I wasnt I thought I would just keep it and then I intended on giving on somehow getting it to Reuters at some point.

So, that they could see it, but I didnt know how. It took me a few days until I decided to upload it to the website, your Honor.

Okay, and I believe you testified earlier how you did that, but just briefly if you could go recount that once again how you uploaded it?

Pfc. Manning

i just went to the website the WikiLeaks website in this case and I went I clicked around and I found a submission form, and I uploaded the video using the submission form, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And, to your knowledge I mean, you were submitting at that point were you submitting it to a particular person or to the organization WikiLeaks?

Pfc. Manning

Just the organization, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And, do you were any of those people cleared to your knowledge to receive those?

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Did anybody from WikiLeaks have a need to know as defined by [missed word] government

Pfc. Manning

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

for classified information?

Pfc. Manning

Not to my knowledge, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Okay. And you believed that actually that this the video was classified at the time?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor, I did.

Judge Lind

Now, as I understand it from both parties, the video actually wasnt classified.
Is that correct? Government?

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

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OniRonin posted...

I have read so much shit about this case, you ahve no idea. it wasn't classified. please read about the case or shut the fuck up

That doesn't mean the call signs weren't classified. It's not something they tell everybody about. And now, they probably have to change the rest of them. But how about you find something to read about it. Also, if anyone should "shut the fuck up", it's definitely you...
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LinkPizza posted...

Unless you want to count the people who also sell them tools to work on things, or the people who supply the food to base, and the US population who pays money that goes to them, as well

well, yeah. US taxpayers also have a degree of moral culpability for the murders and rights violations of the US armed forces (albeit smaller)

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LinkPizza posted...

That doesn't matter. People don't want to die, either. And many people have families they want to take care of. And it's not like you're just breaking a rule and getting slapped on the wrist.

thanks for letting me know htey were just following orders and they would have gotten in trouble if they didn't. that solves everything, because following orders is a great affirmative defense for human rights violations and murders

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OniRonin posted...

anyway if you work for a company that thinks its ok to shoot somebody because they're trying to recover a journalist's dead body, but not ok to expose the people who do that, i think you should be thrown in a ditch when you die. thats just my opinion

Yeah, but youve always had really bad opinions so that doesnt mean much.

LinkPizza posted...

That doesn't mean the call signs weren't classified. It's not something they tell everybody about. And now, they probably have to change the rest of them. But how about you find something to read about it. Also, if anyone should "shut the fuck up", it's definitely you...

NOTHING ON THE TAPE WAS CLASSIFIED. read the fucking transcript

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

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OniRonin posted...

NOTHING ON THE TAPE WAS CLASSIFIED. read the fucking transcript

I mean, he also literally says that he didnt have the authorization to remove the video, and youve clearly never been in a fucking SCIF.

goddamn dude, youre really grasping at semantics right now.

also, when was that classification review conducted?

Ah. I see OniRonin blocked me again. Thats at least twice theyve done it. Well, whatever, I guess Ill still respond, though

OniRonin posted...

well, yeah. US taxpayers also have a degree of moral culpability for the murders and rights violations of the US armed forces (albeit smaller)

So, you think they should be thrown in a ditch, too?

OniRonin posted...

thanks for letting me know htey were just following orders and they would have gotten in trouble if they didn't. that solves everything, because following orders is a great affirmative defense for human rights violations and murders

Yeah. Sorry if it bugs you that people like to live and stuff. I guess you would be fine going to jail or dying, while also possibly letting your comrades die. Good to know youre such a shitty person

OniRonin posted...

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Maam. After a classification review was conducted it was determined not to be classified.

That was the video. And I said the CALL SIGNS were probably classified. Not the video. You can have something unclassified without everything in it being unclassified. AFAIK, they can give you information, while redacting certain parts.
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they

I hope you and your family get killed by a drone strike (legally, following all proper rules of engagement, by people who were just following orders and would have gotten in Really Big Trouble if they didn't pull the trigger)

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OniRonin posted...

I hope you and your family get killed by a drone strike (legally, following all proper rules of engagement, by people who were just following orders and would have gotten in Really Big Trouble if they didn't pull the trigger)

And the same to you...
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OniRonin posted...

I hope you and your family get killed by a drone strike (legally, following all proper rules of engagement, by people who were just following orders and would have gotten in Really Big Trouble if they didn't pull the trigger)

You really whine a lot. Especially about a guy that admittedly removed what he thought was classified material

Guess the government got to the poor guy.

Huh. What did he do? He blocked me awhile ago so can't see most of his posts.
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Revelation34 posted...

Huh. What did he do? He blocked me awhile ago so can't see most of his posts.

he got himself banned, ok?

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ClarkDuke posted...

he got himself banned, ok?

Was it from this topic? Or did they do something else?
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LinkPizza posted...

Was it from this topic? Or did they do something else?

It was probably that comment Cacciato quoted.
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Revelation34 posted...

It was probably that comment Cacciato quoted.

Yeah. I quoted it, as well... And my comment was deleted first. Which is funny because they obviously saw it was me quoting Oni. But theirs was deleted much later... It was kind of dumb. I dont know what the mods were thinking...
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LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. I quoted it, as well... And my comment was deleted first. Which is funny because they obviously saw it was me quoting Oni. But theirs was deleted much later... It was kind of dumb. I dont know what the mods were thinking...

yet conspiracy theorists are allowed to propagate here, only weakly punished once they share their inevitable racist post, ok?

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Was he even warned/suspended first? That was a really fast ban.
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Revelation34 posted...

Was he even warned/suspended first? That was a really fast ban.

the mods might finally be taking notice more board members, are calling out their previous lack of response to a blatant propagation of theories, from groups even the cia has deemed a hate groups, ok?

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ClarkDuke posted...

the mods might finally be taking notice more board members, are calling out their previous lack of response to a blatant propagation of theories, from groups even the cia has deemed a hate groups, ok?

The CIA deemed Gamefaqs posters as a hate group?
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Revelation34 posted...

The CIA deemed Gamefaqs posters as a hate group?

that's not what i said, ok?

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