Current Events > It would be awesome if you could live comfortably on a minimum wage job

(+) Yeah! (+)

At the very least it should be able to support a family. That way if you're single it's even better.

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Some might dare even say this was the original intention!

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Funkydog posted...

Some might dare even say this was the original intention!

you're mistaken. minimum wage jobs are for teenagers who don't need to go to school or sleep.

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That's exactly what I'm trying to do with passive income replacing my fulltime job and just working my side part time job I actually enjoy along side that.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

you're mistaken. minimum wage jobs are for teenagers who don't need to go to school or sleep.

Ah right, my b.

I do get FDR's quote about minimum wage confused a lot.

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Funkydog posted...

Some might dare even say this was the original intention!

The original intent was to price minorities out of the workforce.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The original intent was to price minorities out of the workforce.

?

this is a heavy claim to just drop with zero evidence

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Forget comfortbly just live on one would be nice.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

The original intent was to price minorities out of the workforce.

its weird, how the republican party has shifted, huh?

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I would disagree, but our so called billionaire president doesn't pay any taxes :(

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monkmith posted...

its weird, how the republican party has shifted, huh?

Unsustainability: The American Dream

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Since the dawn of humanity, communalism has defined us. We have prehistoric evidence of early humans taking care of the sick in their tribe. It has always been the case that we survive as a unit, not as individual members. We are not solitary creatures, but tribal. Since that time we have added many layers of complexity, and for the most part this means we have enhanced our ability to care for the poor and ill. The idea that social darwinism can be enforced, justified, or is somehow a return to the natural order is foolish and has no basis in reality.

The idea that allowing people to die in a society with such wealth in order to enhance the lives of the elite few, is inhumane. It only occurs because there is such distance between those at the top and those at the bottom. They do not see them as a part of their society, their tribe, and would rather them dead. But the truth is they are a part of their society. The rich depend on them for their wealth. If we allow the rich to continue to abuse those at the bottom, then we are allowing a great betrayal, and eventually it will come for us all. Those poor who die today, will be replaced by those who are tenuously comfortable tomorrow, ad infinitum until the robots replace us and the rich truly have no need for anyone who isn't in their group.

The great automation is already happening, and you should consider what your worth will be when AI begins to compete with whatever skill you have. If you truly believe you are irreplaceable (you're not), then consider how many will be made redundant and how much suffering will result under the current system.

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If wages are tied to cost of living, why live anywhere but Manhattan?

If I can live "comfortably" flipping burgers, pushing a broom, or stuffing boxes, what is my incentive to go to college and get a more meaningful/important job?

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

this is a heavy claim to just drop with zero evidence

https://medium.com/the-enclave-of-others/the-racist-history-of-minimum-wage-5dd71ebf0770
https://mises.org/wire/racist-history-minimum-wage-laws
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-the-historically-racist-motivations-behind-minimum-wage/

PoundGarden posted...

If I can live "comfortably" flipping burgers, pushing a broom, or stuffing boxes, what is my incentive to go to college and get a more meaningful/important job?

Status? Even more money? It's the job you want?

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Questionmarktarius posted...

https://medium.com/the-enclave-of-others/the-racist-history-of-minimum-wage-5dd71ebf0770
https://mises.org/wire/racist-history-minimum-wage-laws
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-the-historically-racist-motivations-behind-minimum-wage/

Unfortunate. I'm sure this affects us to this day. But at the same time, this is like arguing that anything that starts out negatively is necessarily negative. Which means America as a whole would be doomed because of slavery. So why bother changing anything, right? What is the alternative to minimum wage? Just make less money?

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

So why bother changing anything, right? What is the alternative to minimum wage? Just make less money?

The big difference is that it unintentionally hurts the people it's intended to help nowadays, instead of being specifically engineered for harm.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

At the very least it should be able to support a family. That way if you're single it's even better.

So you're saying we should go back to single earning breadwinner households?

Questionmarktarius posted...

The big difference is that it unintentionally hurts the people it's intended to help nowadays, instead of being specifically engineered for harm.

How, what are these harms? And how is making less money going to solve the problems minimum wage causes?

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Min wage here in Ontario next month is going to $14.25.

2 people can live fine in a 1 or 2 bedroom unit if they don't live in a city.

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Annihilated posted...

So you're saying we should go back to single earning breadwinner households?

What? I'm saying if one wage can support a family, then that wage could support a single person to an even greater degree.

That lifestyle isn't for everyone, but it should be viable is what I'm saying.

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Austin_Era_II posted...

Min wage here in Ontario next month is going to $14.25.

2 people can live fine in a 1 or 2 bedroom unit if they don't live in a city.

Two people can make it in the city on that wage, but that's two people not just one. It's VERY hard to support yourself with just a single wage, especially if you want to live alone.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

but it should be viable is what I'm saying.

How? Who pays for this?

MedeaLysistrata posted...

How, what are these harms? And how is making less money going to solve the problems minimum wage causes?

As stated by Milton Friedman:

The groups that will be hurt the most are the low-paid and the unskilled. The ones who remain employed will receive higher wage rates, but fewer will be employed. As Prof. James Tobin, who was a member of president Kennedys Council of Economic Advisers, recently wrote: People who lack the capacity to earn a decent living need to be helped, but they will not be helpedby minimum-wage laws, trade-unionwage pressures or other devices which seek to compel employers to pay them more than their work is worth. The more likely outcome of such regulations is that the intended beneficiaries are not employed at all.

Minimum-Wage Rates by Milton Friedman - Newsweek, 26 September 1966
You're on your own finding that. There's archaic racial terminology in there that's probably not-safe-for-gamefaqs.

Reality since then has showed us since then that net employment isn't affected much my minimum wage, but the bottom of the skillset pile does get screwed over hard.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

What? I'm saying if one wage can support a family, then that wage could support a single person to an even greater degree.

That lifestyle isn't for everyone, but it should be viable is what I'm saying.

Then it doesn't sound like a "minimum" wage anymore. Minimum should be for one person, not a family.

BadderHare posted...

How? Who pays for this?

the employer

either way my horse is in the single earners situation, I don't really have much of an opinion on whether a nuclear family should have one or two earners.

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A single person could do it. I make well more than that and I only own 3 pairs of shorts...so minimalize/downsize.

Of course can't support a family on that income alone. Having kids would not be on my list then. Doesn't seem right to bring a child into a world like that.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

the employer

With what money?

Questionmarktarius posted...

As stated by Milton Friedman:

Minimum-Wage Rates by Milton Friedman - Newsweek, 26 September 1966
You're on your own finding that. There's archaic racial terminology in there that's probably not-safe-for-gamefaqs.

Anecdotal but I disagree ? Most people can find work, unemployment is pretty low and employers have zero issue filling most min wage roles. it's just the available work doesn't pay well and there is no reason to pay more.

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BadderHare posted...

With what money?

yeah, i forgot that my zero profit business doesn't have to pay its employees

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

yeah, i forgot that my zero profit business doesn't have to pay its employees

You didn't answer the question.

BadderHare posted...

You didn't answer the question.

employers pay employees with the profit they make. that is how it works.

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questionmark using contentious studies and 40-100 year old policy to argue why change is impossible today

must be a day

MedeaLysistrata posted...

employers pay employees with the profit they make. that is how it works.

What makes you think most businesses have high enough profits to raise wages by this much? Show data.

Annihilated posted...

Then it doesn't sound like a "minimum" wage anymore. Minimum should be for one person, not a family.

sure. whatever, don't care that much about the family case. i agree minimum wage should support one person, at least.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

employers pay employees with the profit they make. that is how it works.

Uhh no, employees are part of the expense. Profit comes AFTER that. If there's no profit left, or if the profit you make is less than what your employees do, then why even keep the business open?

MedeaLysistrata posted...

it's just the available work doesn't pay well and there is no reason to pay more.

Why pay someone $15 to make t-shirts, when you can pay someone in Bangladesh eleven cents?

Min wage supports 1 person usually. You can get food at a food bank or buy $1 items. Clothing at shelters/churches is typically free and they have overstock. Shelter at a bachelor pad or renting a room only at a house is cheap.

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Austin_Era_II posted...

Min wage supports 1 person usually. You can get food at a food bank or buy $1 items. Clothing at shelters/churches is typically free and they have overstock. Shelter at a bachelor pad or renting a room only at a house is cheap.

sit here and lie

BadderHare posted...

How? Who pays for this?

The employer. I'm sure if the price of a big Mac went up $1, mcdonald's could pay their employees a far higher minimum wage without it negatively affecting the bottom line.

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BadderHare posted...

What makes you think most businesses have high enough profits to raise wages by this much? Show data.

https://tinyurl.com/y8ltwuuh

here's one example. "It's a matter of priorities".


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Thats why we gotta stop using the term minimum wage and start using the term living wage

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3PiesAndAFork posted...

I'm sure

I can promise you that you aren't.

sit here and lie

"usually"

I'm not familiar with America. But taking Ontario, Canada alone it's doable. And I don't know how much to rent a 1 bedroom basement in Toronto or a bachelor pad so Toronto may be out of the question. As I said small cities or town.

"Comfortably" can happen. Free clothing is easily available. Food is cheap.

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Austin_Era_II posted...

Min wage supports 1 person usually. You can get food at a food bank or buy $1 items. Clothing at shelters/churches is typically free and they have overstock. Shelter at a bachelor pad or renting a room only at a house is cheap.

It's not exactly a livable wage if you need to be subsidized by charities to make it livable.

Austin_Era_II posted...

sit here and lie

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's not exactly a livable wage if you need to be subsidized by charities to make it livable

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's not exactly a livable wage if you need to be subsidized by charities to make it livable.

Then buy less clothing and buy cheap food items at a dollar store. What is comfort???

I make way more and only own 2 pair of jeans.

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Austin_Era_II posted...

"usually"

I'm not familiar with America. But taking Ontario, Canada alone it's doable. And I don't know how much to rent a 1 bedroom basement in Toronto or a bachelor pad so Toronto may be out of the question. As I said small cities or town.

"Comfortably" can happen. Free clothing is easily available. Food is cheap.

Ontario's wage is surprisingly affordable, I mean at the end of the day most people can live on minimum wage. But I don't think the world would grind to a halt if it was a few dollars more, like some people do.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

Ontario's wage is surprisingly affordable, I mean at the end of the day most people can live on minimum wage. But I don't think the world would grind to a halt if it was a few dollars more, like some people do.

Ontario is not a country, let alone a country with 50 self governing states with varying standards of living.